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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [jroden] [ In reply to ]
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I love the debate around the Hanson plan; and I do believe it is physiologically sound....but to echo earlier post...I do not believe it is well suited to most runners. It is a tough plan to execute and I also believe it leaves many (most) unprepared psychologically for the last 6-10miles of the race...a very long time unless your running 6min. pace or better.

I'm a 2:38 Marathoner (admittedly in my 20's) which I achieved on typically mix of mileage and speed...and multiple long runs of 18-22 miles....I am now in my 50's and two years ago after running 3:25 on triathlon training...I wanted to take a real crack at 3:00hrs again with a run focused program....and I tried the Hanson program. First caveat is that I trained at the pace I was hoping for ...not the pace I was really ready for...and I ended up getting injured (Achilles)...not enough to stop my training...but enough to put a dent into my time goal....I completed the race but I didn't race it...I just ran it....

This intense focus on pace running and cumulative fatigue...I think is unsuited to many runners outside younger & elite type runners...unless taken up with caution...and as I said even then leaves more unexperienced runners unprepared for another 60-90 minutes trying to hold pace at the end of a marathon...

Just IMHO.
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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Now just go for it.

Long runs are obviously useful but I don't think they are absolutely necessary, especially for an experienced runner.
My n = 1, YMMV: last fall I ran two marathons. The training was basically 10-11 km commute run most days (so some 80-100 km per week). I did exactly one longer run, 26 km or 16 miles.
Times were 2:45 in a hilly marathon 2:45 and 2:41, which were pretty much in line with what I was expecting.
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [Soarfeet] [ In reply to ]
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Soarfeet wrote:
I love the debate around the Hanson plan; and I do believe it is physiologically sound....but to echo earlier post...I do not believe it is well suited to most runners. It is a tough plan to execute and I also believe it leaves many (most) unprepared psychologically for the last 6-10miles of the race...a very long time unless your running 6min. pace or better.
I wasn't familiar with the Hanson plan until now. I'm intrigued by it and may even get one of their books, but from what little I now know of it, I would agree with what you wrote. I'm 49, took up running not too long ago, and have only run three marathons so far. I think the long runs I did last year were invaluable to me from a psychologically standpoint. The Hanson method seems to be better suited to someone who has run more marathons than I have.

I'm sticking to something closer to this for now: Keflezighi likes his long runs long. “If you can get in several runs between 24 and 28 miles, with enough time for recovery, that’s going to make you strong as a nail,” he says. “Combine that with the tempos, the intervals, and you’re ready.”
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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Good Luck...I mean that seriously; you sound confident and ready...believe it and run it!

BTW are you running at Shamrock? I'll be down there running the half as a workout...hope the weather holds.

Cheers.
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [Soarfeet] [ In reply to ]
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Soarfeet wrote:
I love the debate around the Hanson plan; and I do believe it is physiologically sound....but to echo earlier post...I do not believe it is well suited to most runners. It is a tough plan to execute and I also believe it leaves many (most) unprepared psychologically for the last 6-10miles of the race...a very long time unless your running 6min. pace or better.

I'm a 2:38 Marathoner (admittedly in my 20's) which I achieved on typically mix of mileage and speed...and multiple long runs of 18-22 miles....I am now in my 50's and two years ago after running 3:25 on triathlon training...I wanted to take a real crack at 3:00hrs again with a run focused program....and I tried the Hanson program. First caveat is that I trained at the pace I was hoping for ...not the pace I was really ready for...and I ended up getting injured (Achilles)...not enough to stop my training...but enough to put a dent into my time goal....I completed the race but I didn't race it...I just ran it....

This intense focus on pace running and cumulative fatigue...I think is unsuited to many runners outside younger & elite type runners...unless taken up with caution...and as I said even then leaves more unexperienced runners unprepared for another 60-90 minutes trying to hold pace at the end of a marathon...

Just IMHO.

i'm in a similar boat, I ran 1.12 1/2m 25 years ago, now I struggle to not get hurt and break 1.33, with even more of a stepdown at the shorter races. I tried Hanson over the winter to train for a 30k in 2 weeks and have been very happy with my progress. I feel like I got a great base with a ton of running at tempo to marathon pace. In my youth I used to do 20 milers, but who knows if they were the secret, it's kind of a moving target. I feel better on my daily runs, it took a while.

For me, a slow but experienced runner who tends toward injury the Hanson plan was a good fit. I'm going to try the 1/2 marathon plan too, as 30k is more than plenty long for me at this point in my running life
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [Soarfeet] [ In reply to ]
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The irony, of course, is that all of the elite marathon runners coached by the Hansons run 100-130 miles a week and do long runs of 20+ miles.
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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craigj532 wrote:
The irony, of course, is that all of the elite marathon runners coached by the Hansons run 100-130 miles a week and do long runs of 20+ miles.

their argument is based on the time spent running, so the elites are maybe 2.15 for the 20 mi long runs, while a 3.15 kind of marathoner covers 16 in the same time more or less. The argument is to hit the energy system with pre-tired legs and then get up Monday and run 8 and go do 6x1 mile Tuesday before you rest. It has a certain logic to it, I was skeptical at first.
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [jroden] [ In reply to ]
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No, I understand the logic. I just thought it was funny that people keep saying that it's a good plan for elites when the elites don't really follow it in the same way as amateurs. For the Hanson elites, their plan really isn't very different from what other elite marathoners are doing. I just don't want people to get the idea that their elites are running 2:10 on 50 miles per week and a long run of 16 miles.
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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This talk of volume is interesting, but what happens when you add in volume from training for 2 other sports?

I've not run much more than 25km per week for at least 6 months, but today set a pb over 16 miles of 16 minutes finishing in 1:52, and had i not been an official pace maker could have taken another couple of minutes off that.

I have a marathon in 4 weeks time and I will add in two more 2 hr runs and based on todays VDOT score I reckon it's entirely possible to run c.3:08, i guess what i'm saying is that run volume is important if you are a runner, but that when you add in a wholistic tri programme I think you can cut out a lot of the volume of a classic marathon programme...

It's an experiment, and one that could go horribly wrong, but hopefully not!
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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I would look at the post's from "scott wrigley" "printer" and "rusty sprocket"

Stop asking questions on how you will do, we won't know until race day…but between now and then you might know a bit better than us. Go out and execute at 7:03-7:07 for the first 15 and see what happens.

Better to try and fail than to not try and fail. Of course much better to try and succeed ;-)

What is your weight and nutrition plan from breakfast to end of race?

Maurice
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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Personal opinion, I haven't run a marathon since 2007 and not really a decent one since 2006.

At 145 and a 3:07 and change I had a breakfast similar to yours but did gel at minus 15 minutes then at every 25 after so maybe closer to 800-900 cal planned for me at 145lbs. Plus water at every station (only…no gator aid) to help with uptake.

My PB that year at 5km was 19:07 so way less speed than you, also hours topped out at about 9 or 100km (60 miles) give or take, looks like you have the speed for sure, I think you need to ignore ST for the next few days/week or so….go with your gut ;-)

I really didn't want to run a marathon but my GF BQ'd ;-0

Have a great race….Just lay it out, you know that just pinning a number will give you 2-6 seconds per mile.

Cheers,
Maurice
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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runner66 wrote:
I'm 5'11" and 162lbs. 48 years old. Nutrition plan is to eat 500-600 calories before the race, about 5:00 a.m. For an 8:00 a.m. Start. Probably a baked Potatoe, maybe half a pb&j. My race plan is to take a gu every 4 miles and Gatorade in between when needed. I'm hoping to take in at least 600 calories during the race.

We're the same size. My advice is not to over think it. Don't do anything new with your nutrition on race day. In fact, I don't do anything out of the ordinary on race day. I just have my same breakfast about 3 hours before the race and take one gel every 40 minutes on the course. The gel gives me all I need during the run. I don't take any Gatorade, but I do grab a cup of water at each aid station. Keep it simple.

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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I am rooting for you. I am in week 12 of Hanson's plan aiming for a 3:10 run on 05/03.

I'd say trust your training! Maybe ignore their schedule for the last week and give your ankle some rest. Run a few 3-4 mile runs.

Go get it! Post the followup please - let's see whether the plan works for you.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Any words on how the OP fared during the marathon? I'm pretty curious about results from the low milage training/Hanson plan.
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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i am guessing he didnt post a 3:05 or we would have heard all about it
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [ronniewo] [ In reply to ]
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ronniewo wrote:
Any words on how the OP fared during the marathon? I'm pretty curious about results from the low milage training/Hanson plan.

He posted another thread about the results: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...rch_string=;#5480198
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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i did a fair bit of running in poor footing this winter and the impact was often over a minute per mile. I don't see how you could have run a 3.05 on snowy roads. This picture was my last marathon and my last attempt at 2.37, first weekend in MAY in Buffalo, deep slushy snow on the roads for the whole day. Traction was about zero, lumbered home in 2.45, I'm #787 at the bottom of the page with the horrible arm swing and clothes from the second hand bin, including mis matched garden gloves

Last edited by: jroden: Mar 25, 15 18:10
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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i remember looking down at my shoe and the whole toe box was blood red by the 1/2, it was a long freaking day. All the good runners kept dropping out ahead of me so I finished 7th., this sunday's 30k will be my longest run since that day in 1989.

I credit the Hansen plan for getting me this far without injury. No matter how I run on sunday, this has been my longest continuous streak of injury free running over 50 mi a week in many years. Maybe the emphasis on tempo rather than faster pace running is part of it, I don't feel like it has really hit my speed much but I do feel better running at a faster pace
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Re: Advice on marathon goal next week [runner66] [ In reply to ]
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That sucks about the weather. I'm still running on ice up here in Fairbanks but it's starting to melt after being on the ground since September.
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