What do you mean by "heavier weight?" Do you know what percentage of your max you are using? Although I have read Friel's books, I never paid attention to the strength training sections since I followed a different strength model. I forget if you prescribes percentages to be used during the different phases of training. Also do you have a strength training background or is this new to you. It makes a difference in how your body responds to the stimulus.

I'm basically going off Friel's recommendations of sets and reps. The first phase of training consisted of 3-5 sets of 20-30 reps. It then moved to 3-4 sets of 10-15 reps (where I'm at now). It then moves to 3-6 sets of 3-6 reps before settling into a maintenance phase of 2-3 sets of 6-12 reps. So at this point if I can squat a certain weight over 15 times I add weight. If I can't get 10 reps, I decrease it.

I haven't strength trained in a while (5+ years) but I was in the military for a while and would hit the gym on a somewhat regular basis. I've never been what anyone would consider a gym rat though.

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The best pace is a suicide pace, and today is a good day to die. -Steve Prefontaine

I think the key that Ive learned about training is the ability to remain consistent and repeat the workout, then when your body gives you signals that you can handle the workload after a few sessions then you can make small increases to the workload. Anything more than your body can handle and it takes away from your future workouts and forces rest days which are fine but if you are consistently overtired/overexerted then you are just digging a hole. Frankly IMO weight training 1x per week wont get you anywhere I'd suggest at least 2x per week, at a load that stresses you but doesn't take too much away from your regular sw/bk/rn training. Start easy.

I've found with squatting that it destroys your legs for running. If you used to squat or lift a bit and could squat 1.5-2x body weight you are probably doing more weight for even these 20-30 rep sets than what you should be. I think it takes a 3 weeks or so of lifting before your body adapts to it being in your routine and it doesn't feel so shocked.

I take note that you use "IMO" and will counter with my own IMO as a former competitive lifter. Strength training is my primary activity (even though I am retired from competition) and I've done quite well on training my legs once a week for many years. :-)

I find these illustrations pretty cool, maybe they can help.

http://ylmsportscience.blogspot.com/...rength-training.html

http://ylmsportscience.blogspot.com/...y-and-explosive.html

http://ylmsportscience.blogspot.com/...prove-endurance.html

http://ylmsportscience.blogspot.com/...squat-yes-or-no.html

http://ylmsportscience.blogspot.com/...rength-training.html

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The Rat Snake:
A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
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Friel has you lifting twice a week in the Base period. Your running and cycling workouts during this period, if you're following him, are all Zone 1-2. So if you aren't speedy, you're not supposed to be in this phase. I just finished this phase, following Friel, and yeah, my legs were pretty wrecked. After the lifting phase, I'm feeling quite good and my runs have greatly improved. Of course, YMMV.

Are you lifting "to failure". If you are, there's your problem. Stop a couple reps short of failure or otherwise reduce the weight. You don't have to crush yourself to get the adaptation needed.

If your crushed, also look at the pace/intensity of your recovery rides and recovery runs. If they are too hard, you won;t get the recovery your need, or your volume is a little too high in terms of running and your not ready for where your at.

It's all a balancing act, each workout impacts the other in terms of fatigue, yet prepares you for future workouts.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

you're doing different things to your muscle fibers.

low weight high rep = muscular endurance
high weight low reps = muscular strength, power, hypertrophy (based on weight and rest)

So yes, your legs should feel differently now than they did with the last lifting routine.. it is targeting different functionality.

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COROS Sports Science

Felt--totally agree with you in a powerlifting/bodybuilding context you can totally blow your legs out 1x week and use the other days for recovery. Plus you've established your leg strength "base" over years of competition. If he's adding strength training to his training it just seems like he's struggling from the soreness all the time and either needs to back off the intensity (weight or reps) and double up at least during the week to "grease the rails" so to speak. Maybe even a super light day just to feel the weight and build some muscle memory from the weight training. Just basing this on my limited weight training background I'm better off with lighter, more frequent sessions, with occasional heavy day (1x) week.

It is now impossible for me to read that word not in Mike Barwis' voice.

First, make sure you look at Friel's Maximum Strength Phase weight goals.

For example, for squats in the MS phase your goals should be 3-6 reps of 1.3-1.7 times your body weight. Once you reach those weights you increase reps while keeping weight constant. Are you already approaching that weight?

I'm just entering the maintenance phase of the same program, and my experience was that the lifting had minimal impact on my other workouts until the MS phase. However, my legs were dead on several once I started approaching goal weight. This is normal and he talks about it in his books. Basically, his advice is that in these early phases, you are more interested in developing general fitness and strength. Once you enter Base 2 and strength maintenance, you dial back on the weight lifting. At that point, he states that the hip extension lifts are optional and should be omitted if they interfere with biking or running.

similiar to FTP and scaling workouts, instead of being arbitrary and adding weight "until you can't do more reps", or "until you can't walk the next day" i strongly suggest sorting out what your 1 Rep Max (1RM) (or calculated 1RM) is and then base your strength workouts as a % of that.

If you aren't comfortable going all the way to 1RM but can do 3reps and fail, then use a calculator such as this; http://www.exrx.net/...ators/OneRepMax.html
This is handy if you're worried about chucking 300lbs on your back squat and injuring yourself. Similiar to a 20min or 8min FTP it gives you a good idea where your max is.

Not only does knowing your 1RM give you a guide post to see if you are actually increasing strength over time by re-testing (similiar to how you will re-test FTP periodically), but it gives you a mark to sort out your activities from.
This way if you're doing a 5x5 deadlift/squat/snatch and its prescribed at 80% 1RM you actually have an idea of what you should be hitting.

this is ST so you should no that weights are a no no

IMO, heavy lifting should be incorporated into training plan during a base building phase when most of your riding/ running is zone 1/2. Trying to lift heavyand do interval training is going to possibly set you up for injury and possibly make your interval sessions less effective. As you get more into a build phase/ race phase, lifting becomes more about maintenance. It's a reverse periodization plan

Although Friel has some reputable endurance programs that have been out there- the integrated strength training falls very short.

Little inside baseball on the "high rep muscle endurance" protocols that gets peddled so much- in the research world, when they want to study DOMS and other severe muscle trauma from exercise, they use 20+ reps....and yes, this isn't "research," but the only thing separating workouts done in the lab and in the gym is a few exfizzers controlling for STP.

Endurance coaches have been riding the high-rep muscle endurance scooter since the 1990's. In theory, yes, it's a steady, progressive, way to approach strength training...but it will not create the sport specific strength to increase things such as running economy. It's not practically applied to the real world. The limited research to support it is when investigators took untrained folks and wanted to increase strength and study linear periodization in the 80's and 90's. Since then, linear periodzation has long-since been viewed as only applicable to the old and frail who do nothing other than strength train. I'm assuming you're not old and frail...

If an endurance athlete wishes to add in complementary strength training, it "should" to be a strength/power focus. In other words, if your repetition range is greater than ~4-5, and you're doing less than 80% max (which you are when you start hitting greater than ~6 reps), you're either increasing muscle size (not good), or wasting valuable training time that could be spent on the s-b-r. There is no "building" up to this with a linear progression of high reps, moderate reps, moderate reps with weight, etc. You're either focused/emphasizing on strength or you're not.

You're legs are getting smoked b/c you still haven't recovered from your "first phase" and "transition" phase for strength training. The maintenance phase does not even pass the common sense test...why would you maintain a rep range focused on increasing muscle size/hypertrophy?

Now, if people enjoy doing a process, like Friel's, than awesome- enjoy the race season and crush dreams- but a better, more optimized approach for both increased transfer to the run and better long-term gains is a pure strength/power protocol...without outdated approaches.

Stop the strength training for 2-3 weeks. Focus on your S-B-R. When your legs start feeling fresh again, get a couple direct or indirect 1RM's for your main lifts, and work off of those 2x's/week, 2-4 reps.

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http://www.reathcon.com

You could just replace your lifting sessions with a hard shirt swim set and low cadence hill set on the bike and become a better triathlete and be less confused.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Surprised it took 18 posts to get some sense embedded in this thread.

If one would like to lift as a triathlete I would recommend these movements:
1) Cleans.
2) Box jumps. Only up.
3) Push Press
4) Any horizontal abduction. I like face pulls with a rope.
5) Outward rotation in a cable cross

These are movements to increase your running economy, strenghten the posterior chain and stabilaze the shoulder and hopefully reduce the risk of injury. One could also do some balance board in between sets.

If you are very scrawny, or have troubles increasing volume without getting hurt, this might be a good idea to do throughout the off season, maybe oct-january. I would do it the same day as hard bike workouts, but after the bike work.

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

Agree with Jack. Disagree with you.

/end thread/

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http://www.reathcon.com

Good info. Thanks guys.

This compares nicely to the information I found researching online which seems to indicate that the topic of weight lifting and endurance training is a widely debated issue.

But I have gleaned some good stuff that I will be trying.

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The best pace is a suicide pace, and today is a good day to die. -Steve Prefontaine