Not sure if you've said what kind of research area you're going into. I have a PhD in biochemistry and worked regular 60+ hours in the week. Often funky hours depending on experiments. The 5 years of grad school were the 5 fattest years if my life. I struggled to regularly exercise, let alone any sort of structured training. I would have spurts where is force myself to for a month or so but would get burnt out.

Anyways, pick school first. Get some nice publications, network like hell, and then you can choose where you want to work and train as much as you want in the best place for you.

Good points. Thanks!

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Not saying winter in MN is easy, but as an amatuer triathlete you would be hard pressed to find a better tri racing scene within one hour of a large metro area than the one you can find in and around the Twin Cities area of MN. You also get to race against some really fast amatuers on a weekly basis come the summer months.

Yes, winters are long.
Yes, it gets cold.
Running is awesome year round here with the correct gear.
Get a fat bike for winter. You know it fits perfectly with the n+1 philosophy!
The U of M has a very nice Nat., and the lakes are awesome in the summer.

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Ryan

You can get away with choosing a university for an undergraduate degree partially based on factors such as climate for training, but you can't do this for a doctorate. Yes, you will still have time to train, but you really need to have your priorities in line at this point.

I'm going to mostly agree with this; I am three years into a Ph.D. I remember posting "which is better for training, Corvallis OR or Baltimore, MD?" three years ago. I chose Corvallis but it wasn't because it's a good place to train (that's a nice bonus), it just worked out that the better place to train also had a faculty member doing the type of research I want to do.

I think that there are two concerns: a program that will set you up for professional success, and a school where you will be HAPPY. If the advisor I wanted to work with had been in MD, I still might have said no to them, because I would get eaten alive in a city and I don't want to be in that sort of heat or humidity.

So I wouldn't think about your locations as "is this good training" ? I would think about "will I be happy here?"

ps. I get 12-15 hrs of workout time a week. I am single and childless. Don't know how I'd do that with a family or a sig other.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

thank you for such great feedback and insight

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

shouldn't you be adjusting the salary for cost of living?

Don't let people tell you that you can't train hard in grad school. I did all through medical school and a PhD, including the clinical years. If you make it a priority, you can do it. That said, I would actively discourage you from working 70-90 hour weeks. There is a point of diminishing returns and even negative returns. A lot of research comes from creativity, and to have that, you need outside interests and you need to be, at times, fresh. It's not all just grinding it out.

I would pick the place that is best of your career, but that's me.

If you get jazzed over econometrics and psychometrics, and are looking solely for quality of life analysis of the cities, then

check this out:

In a recent draft paper, economists Edward Glaeser and Oren Ziv of Harvard and Joshua Gottlieb of the University of British Columbia used the CDC's data to find which major metro areas scored highest and lowest for joy.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w20291.pdf

http://www.slate.com/...e_no_matter_how.html

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_____________

"Some guys they just give up living, and start dying little by little piece by piece. Some guys come home from work and wash up, then go racin' in the street." Bruce Springsteen

Read this: (http://www.slate.com/...university_good.html) and the original paper (http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/1/e1400005) and make your decision from there. You want a job after all this, not to be a post doc for the rest of your life. And the bike trainer is necessary in grad school wherever you go, but at least you'll have access to a fitness center and at least one pool.

Given that a) you will not be a successful pro athlete; b) funding seems not to be an issue
Priority #1: Quality and availability of your future supervisor
Priority #2: Match between the research topic and your aspiration for your future job (post PhD)
Priority #3: all the rest, very distant from priority #2


I supervise several PhD students every year for some time now. The only additional aspect I would take into account is the atmosphere is the Post Grad community. If the group of PhD students is dynamic, happy, publish well and post docs who have left the group are successful, it's a good sign that the research group is well managed and led. Be careful that a Faculty ranking is not necessarily a god indicator of the support and training you will receive.
I have to go to check if my students are happy ;)

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Francois-Xavier Li @FrancoisLi
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." George Bernard Shaw
http://www.swimrunfrance.fr
http://www.worldofswimrun.com

It's an interesting thread to follow, since I'm currently wrapping up my BA in Physics and Biology and starting to look at Masters or direct-to-PhD programs. My long-time girlfriend and I are both studying the same field and lead an athletic lifestyle, so the considerations are similar.

I agree with your observation that time is not really an issue if you're willing to sacrifice for it: While a double-major program weeks with 80-90h of my time spent studying aren't easy, on-campus pool and tracks made it much easier to manage, and I've found the time for ~15h of training (while balancing it out with easier months when needed). The time my friends spend getting drunk is the time I spend training, and since both are social activities I don't consider that a loss.

I think many commentators on this thread come from a much older age and don't quite have the same view of things. They might be adult-onset with a twinge of jealousy, or just someone with different priorities now and/or then. However, even if we're not going to turn sports into a career, it doesn't mean it can't be a priority in our lives. I can't imagine going to live in an industrial sprawl no matter how good the university, because a good long run or ride mean so much in terms of mental health, focus and motivation. By all means, put academic excellence in the highest priority - but I think a training-unfriendly environment is usually a depressing environment, and that can also have a negative effect on your academic work (or on the sustainability).

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

Biophysics PhD? Good luck and it sounds like you have a good idea of your priorities and I do see similarities between us in terms of time management and athletics mastery not being the same as professionalism/career. But also remember that the posters who are slightly older in age than us are giving us a chance to hear from our future-selves, and that's come with a variety of opinions, but all great (sure the first several responses were kind of grumpy, but that's ST, right?)

On a different note, I edited my first post and removed CMU. Some of of my programs have not handed out decisions, yet (though they've written me to say they are trying to have a response before I have to decide on other schools by this next Friday). And, I was rejected by CMU. I was rejected by a couple of other top schools, too, but this one really punches me in the pants and is just flat out embarrassing. And, it leaves many questions: if it was the best program for my career and they didn't think I was good enough, am I a right fit for this career? Most of these programs are responding saying they received between 800 and 1,200 applications for 2-3 spots in my program, so the odds aren't easy for these top schools. But, this application process has been an exercise of exceptionalism and while being accepted at other schools is great, it feels like having missed the chance to race on the ITU World Cup circuit and being stuck doing Continental Cups, or not qualifying Hawaii as a pro - you have to question your legitimacy as a pro and ask yourself if you've reached the limits of your delusions of exceptionalism. Or, I just need to recognize there's still a lot of room for meritocracy in this field by way of publications and setting myself up for a good post-doc and, as has been the central emphasis from posters, there are amazing advisers at some of these schools that are top caliber, available, supportive and will follow my career post-PhD. So either I've psychoanalysed myself back into a positive place or re-entered delusions of exceptionalism...

Good luck in your graduate pursuits!

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

For sure some of the older posters (like me...47) have a bit of a biased view based on our current circumstances. However, it seems that wisdom is generally wasted on the young who are too willing to dismiss experienced views. You'll feel differently about this in 20 years. If I had the wisdom and general "life knowledge" that I have now when I was 20 I would be the king of the world. What you will learn is that happiness is not location dependent. It is internal. Wherever you go.....there you are. All things being equal, I would rather by near the mountains or the sea but I can be happy most places.

However, believe me when I say there is no jealousy at all. I'll take my 47 year old self and life over where I was in my 20s. I would not trade places.

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Simplify, Train, Live

Makes sense that wisdom is wasted on the young, but which wisdom should the young follow? I have a step-dad who worked his ass off in the medical field for years. Now he has plenty of money, three very nice bikes, nice apartments - but now that he wants to do the things he always wanted to, he found himself too frail to do the Ironman he always wanted, and too held back by life's commitments to train.

From all the advice I received over the years, I chose to follow the one that advocated balance in life: Don't sacrifice the present in the name of the future, but don't sacrifice your future because of the present. Too many around me suffer through Uni in order to suffer through a job in order to suffer all in the name of a career, and then wake up in their 40s with a midlife crisis - and too many others do the opposite.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

It does not have to be that way, even if you work hard and sacrifice. Find something you love and are passionate about and it will never feel like work. I don't regret one minute of my 20 year Navy career. I can't tell you how many times I said, "I can't believe I am getting paid for this." It has not all been butterflies and roses. There have been some tough spots. But those just make you better. Working a job that is not fulfilling or that you hate is not wisdom. In fact, time is the most valuable thing you have. You never get it back. I would not spend one minute in a job I hated.

A guy I know left a lucrative finance job to be a Navy SEAL. Which job do you think involved more hard work and stress? Guess which one was more fulfilling? I guess what I am saying is that if you are in the right profession (for you), going "all in" can be a very fulfilling and happy life.

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Simplify, Train, Live

As someone in an extended program finishing exams and moving into the dissertation phase, I strongly urge you to stick with the place you know. A university in transition, clawing its way up the rankings can be better for its graduate students than a long-established one.

Virginia Tech has enough name recognition in general, and if the faculty you speak of are indeed superstar quality, then it won't matter--pubs and work will trump rankings. Big faculty bring big grants and big grants affect rankings.

More importantly, though, the lack of transition and settling into a new place will significantly improve your experience and speed you through the first year or two. The significant other is not to be ignored in this.

Is this in the business school or the psych program?

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****************

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

I'm not going to lie to you, Minneapolis winters are bad. So bad that I left town and have trouble envisioning ever moving back to the freezer. BUT, it can be done and plenty of successful endurance athletes make it work in MN. As a triathlete, you will have swimming to get you through the winter and you really only lose 2 months of consistent outdoor running. If you can afford yet another sport, XC skiing is one of the best aerobic workouts you'll get.

If it really is the best program and your significant other has a gig there, its a no brainer. Buy some long johns.

Thank you for the feedback.

Business: organizational behavior programs

Yes, my sig other is there visiting her program now and while she had a great run today and likes the program, it is cold! I went to HS in Alaska and lived in Wyoming, so I know I'll survive and I'm ok with trainer and treadmill workouts.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

I see a lot of people giving you gruff about simply desiring to live in a place to train. I am in a similar position. I am searching between schools for my masters program and want somewhere that is ideal for training. I have no aspirations to become a professional, but I do want to be in a setting and environment that I enjoy. Otherwise, I'll be miserable the whole time I'm there. I would guess you feel the same way. Having a program that aligns with what I want to do is number one, but there are plenty of programs that fulfill that requirement so why not consider something that is also a huge part of your life?

My best advice is keep looking for programs that fit you that you think may be great locations for you as well. If you are not in a professional area (doctor, lawyer, etc.) school prestige may not be that big of a deal. Focus on a location that will make you happy. Also, look at surrounding areas too. Maybe there's not any great riding right out your front door, but is there really great roads once you get out of town? Are they by major cities/landmarks, etc. that you may find valuable to be near?

I have no real insider info that can help you out here, but from reading your description of each program and location, I think you would be crazy not to stay at Va Tech. A hungry program with up and coming faculty. Great training opportunities. Your SO can be with you (negating some of the social down side you seem to perceive). I know that would be my choice.


Regarding your other comment about questioning your appropriateness for your field of study because you didn't get accepted at CMU...... You aren't going to get accepted everywhere. You quoted the odds against you. It sounds like you are a spectacular candidate who have the choice of several great programs. Get over it. Pick one and go.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Thank you Jason.

The sting of rejection is fading pretty quick, as is a certain amount of ungratefulness - to myself - and the realization that I've been admitted to several programs has hit me along with the implications. Those implications may be a bit much to write out on this forum, but I'll post this link to the personal statement I wrote to accompany my statement of purpose for programs to possibly better explain those implications. The stats in this link also provide some of those implications in the form of a sort of statistical fate somewhat avoided. So, now accepted and having the privilege to choose a program, I'm starting to think about my next steps.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

I'll weigh in as aCWRU graduate.

1. You're absolutely right about it sharing the time spent on the bike, etc. Others don't get it and will resent you for how you spend your time even though they likely dither away tons of time .

2. All locations sound fine and it's pretty hard to know what it's really like until you're there. Cleveland has good climbing and a nice park network. Winters were tough but the change of pace kept me from getting stale. I can tell you that the winter this year in Baltimore has not been any better for riding than I remember from Ohio. Then I kept in shape XC skiing and riding the rollers in the basement ( dark ages I know). I'd say to pick what looks like the best graduate school environment for you and the SO and then make it work. My strategy now is to have a lot of winter clothes, a good trainer and avoid early summer long races since it's hard to get volume in predictably until May.

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Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe

I went with Virginia Tech.

Thanks!

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram