Maybe. Maybe not. Again, what does it mean to specialize in a 10mile TT vs a 25mike TT? Does that mean you train the same but one just rides more shorter tt's and the other rides longer tt's?

No you don't train the same. How you train depends on the time available and your power curve. Also your position which may not be the same for a 25 mile TT as a 10 mile TT.
PM me for further discussion.

Don't worry, I'm not looking for training advice from you. Just wanting to hear why you think there is a difference between what someone does to train for 20min vs 60min races. I think you are misunderstanding how a 20min test is related to FTP and to training.

Think what you like,

You can't argue, so you resort to claiming I don't understand how a 20 minute test is related to FTP.

Please explain how you understand the relationship between 20 minute tests and FTP.

Are you one of those idiots who don't understand that some people might have an FTP which is 97% of 20 minute power but others may have an FTP which is only 90% of 20 minute power, and some are even less than that?

Classy with the insults. Ignoring that...

What you are talking about is pacing in a race, not training for a race. Why would anyone base their pace in a race off a single 20min test? People that do that don't understanding the concept of an FTP test and the overall concept of training and testing.

This is your statement about training and testing

"Point I'm making is if you do all your training and testing over 20 minutes and make assumptions as to what you can do over 60 minutes based on percentages of your 20 minute power, you will be in for a nasty shock. I had in mind recent hour attempts where we see top class cyclists with good back up and coaching staff really suffer over the later part of their hour effort."

Who does all their training and testing over 20min? With a power meter, all training is testing. I believe DR Coggan describes the EDIT levels (not zones) as descriptive, not prescriptive. A not so subtle difference.

So, with 2 identical athletes, what is different in their training if one was doing 20m TT and the other was a 60mim TT?

Inserting myself into this little bitchfest, which I'm having a hard time dissecting.

But you stated that people should do "proper 60 minute tests" to estimate FTP. I guess. If you really care about knowing your exact 60min CP, and not being off by a percent or two vs. a scaled version. But, as has been pointed out, there's nothing magical about 60 min CP.

The importance of the "fitness test" is to track changes in fitness regularly and consistently.

To track changes in fitness I do an 8-minute test. (as an all-rounder road cyclist). Combines aerobic power with a bit of anaerobic. This is easy to do on a weekly or semi-weekly basis, which gives good consistent data on my state of fitness. As JackMott pointed out improvements in aerobic fitness show up at every duration from a couple of minutes to 4+ hours. Why suffer through a ton of 60-minute efforts just to get the magical hour CP? A true 100% 60-minute effort is mentally taxing. I save those efforts for race day or the prof-amateur Saturday group ride where the pain is masked by the glory of beating up on other type-A mamils. And the results show up on my power curve (training is testing). It is kind of silly to scale 8:00 tests to a predicted 60min. CP. Though I do believe it can be done quite accurately. I just compare my 8min test to my other 8min tests. I use my 40K race power as my "FTP bragging #" Though that's cheating a bit because <brag> my 40K time is waaay under an hour </brag>.

But I just cringe every time someone states that you're only really testing yourself if you go the full hour. Gah. That's just misery.

QFT!!

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

Still waiting Trev. If love to hear how you would train people for 20min vs 60min. Always good to learn :-)