What's stopping me: single chain ring?

Nov 3, 14 10:54

Post #1 of 158 (16800 views)

So this is a continuation of something started on another thread, but in summation, here goes:

There is apparently a significant aero savings to removing the FD hanger (and obviously the FD along with it).

Running a 10 speed, it is possible to obtain a fairly large range of gearing using a single chain ring.

Right now I run 53/39 and either 11/23 or 11/28 (depending on race). I live in flat lands, and I Never use the 39 here and never used it in races other than Kona.

It would appear that I could go with a 48 up front and keep a similar range of gear ratios (enough to ride at 38 mph or 9 mph for cadences between 70 and 110).

So if all that is true, what is keeping me from litteraly buying this (http://www.jensonusa.com/...ino-Track-Chain-Ring) and pulling the 53/39 off of my quarq, putting this thing on it, and giving it a go?

I will openly admit that this may be the dumbest idea ever and may be totally fueled by my desire to never drop my chain again. If such is the case, educate me so I can put this behind me. If it is a good idea and making the change is harder than I think (chain line angles or still dropping chain), let me know that too.

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Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 11:13

Post #2 of 158 (16756 views)

i ran a single front ring for years when i lived in south florida. it was pretty common to see....one ring/no front derailleur. probably wise to use one of those chain keepers so it doesn't bounce off. i don't think they made them then. living in colorado now.....not a wise choice.

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Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 11:13

Post #3 of 158 (16756 views)

I commute on a 1x10 cyclocross bike with a 44 front ring and 11-28 rear. That works for me for almost everything. If it were my road bike, I would want an 11-32 (I do live near hills) and on a tri bike, I would want a 50x11-32.

The only hesitation I would have is if the track chainring would hold the chain on when you are in you big or little gears. Wolf Tooth makes a 50t ring with an XX1-style narrow/wide chainring, but it wouldn't fit on your Quarq, as it's 110 bcd.

I would guess that with a 50t front ring and 11-28 in the back, you would be good to go. Throw on an 11-32 for Kona. 50/32 is the same is 39/25.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 11:38

Post #4 of 158 (16674 views)

You should probably consider a narrow/wide ring. These are popular for mtb and now also cyclocross single-ring setups, because they "hold" the chain much better. SRAM and Wolf Tooth both make excellent versions, RaceFace makes one with slightly shorter teeth. These may allow you to run no chainkeeper, assuming a proper length chain (too long increases risk of dropping).

Note that in 'cross and mtb these are meant to be paired with a clutch style rear derailleur, although those are obviously far bumpier scenarios than typical road use.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 11:41

Post #5 of 158 (16661 views)

Did Kona in 2006 on a 48 tooth and never took it out of the 'big' ring (so to speak)...I think I biked 5:22, but did lose a bit of speed on the downhill from Hawi with the tailwind. The only reason to have a FD would so you don't lose the chain and drop it on a bump etc.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 11:51

Post #6 of 158 (16621 views)

The Sugino chain ring is 1/8" chains so it is for single speed or track (unless you want to run an internally geared hub like Rohloff to trade the rear derailleur drag for mechanical drag).
The 3/32" rings for 1x10/11 with the tall tooth profiles would be what you are looking for.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [slindell] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 12:04

Post #7 of 158 (16570 views)

But do they make those type of chainrings large enough for TT's and flat tris? I mean you'd want at least a 50-tooth ring, possibly more.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 12:05

Post #8 of 158 (16562 views)

I ran a 50 x 11-27, a track chainring and no fd for six months with mild success. The big problem is that without a front derailleur, you end up throwing the chain under load and at inopportune times. If you were only racing flat tris and TTs, it may work but even then I would be nervous that I'd throw the chain coming out of a corner or something. If it were worth any real time savings you'd see it a lot more frequently.

With a wide/narrow chainring it may work better but AFAIK, the biggest wide/narrow made right now is a 44t.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [vjohn] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 12:24

Post #9 of 158 (16524 views)

vjohn wrote:

You should probably consider a narrow/wide ring. These are popular for mtb and now also cyclocross single-ring setups, because they "hold" the chain much better. SRAM and Wolf Tooth both make excellent versions, RaceFace makes one with slightly shorter teeth. These may allow you to run no chainkeeper, assuming a proper length chain (too long increases risk of dropping).

Note that in 'cross and mtb these are meant to be paired with a clutch style rear derailleur, although those are obviously far bumpier scenarios than typical road use.

I'm running a 1x11 on my cross bike with a wide/narrow front chain ring (SRAM Force CX1) with a Shimano RD-6870 rear derailleur. No clutch, and no chain keeper. I've been through three cross races and haven't dropped a chain yet, so I think it would be fine on road as well.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [kcb203] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 12:25

Post #10 of 158 (16516 views)

I have been running carbon chainrings for years with no clutch or chain keeper and zero issues. The teeth are a little taller so it worked well.

Fibre-Lyte chainrings have always been amazing for me.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 12:26

Post #11 of 158 (16515 views)

kjmcawesome wrote:

I commute on a 1x10 cyclocross bike with a 44 front ring and 11-28 rear. That works for me for almost everything. If it were my road bike, I would want an 11-32 (I do live near hills) and on a tri bike, I would want a 50x11-32.

The only hesitation I would have is if the track chainring would hold the chain on when you are in you big or little gears. Wolf Tooth makes a 50t ring with an XX1-style narrow/wide chainring, but it wouldn't fit on your Quarq, as it's 110 bcd.

I would guess that with a 50t front ring and 11-28 in the back, you would be good to go. Throw on an 11-32 for Kona. 50/32 is the same is 39/25.

Wolf makes a 50t in a 110 BCD.

http://www.wolftoothcycling.com/collections/chainrings/products/110-bcd-cyclocross-chainrings

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 12:28

Post #12 of 158 (16501 views)

This is exactly my plan for a dirt drop bar bike I want to assemble this winter. From the little research I've done it seems like Wolftooth is the place to go for chainrings for 1by mods. As someone mentioned above - they do make a 50T 110bcd one.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [slindell] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 12:31

Post #13 of 158 (16491 views)

slindell wrote:

The 3/32" rings for 1x10/11 with the tall tooth profiles would be what you are looking for.

http://www.bikeparts.com/...lts.asp?ID=BPC383926

Like this?

Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [vjohn] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 12:48

Post #14 of 158 (16459 views)

vjohn wrote:

Note that in 'cross and mtb these are meant to be paired with a clutch style rear derailleur, although those are obviously far bumpier scenarios than typical road use.

Just an FYI, I have been running my race face narrow wide on my MTB for about a year with a regular rear derailleur (2006 year SRAM X5) with no chain drops whatsoever. I think the clutch style may help, but my N=1 has been that it is not mandatory.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 13:00

Post #15 of 158 (16434 views)

Like these:
http://www.wolftoothcycling.com/collections/chainrings/products/110-bcd-cyclocross-chainrings

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 13:09

Post #16 of 158 (16411 views)

I was in the same boat as you 6 months ago.
I run a 54/39, never use the 39 and the aero hit of the Ultegra FD was keeping me awake at night....
I took of the RD and one of my friends made me one of these to catch the chain:

http://tinypic.com/...5k2TGxc#.VFfuLWd0zIU

I trained with that thing for 3 months, without ever dropping the chain.
But during my 2014 A race I dropped it, and it cost me nearly a minute to get it back on and going again.

Still on a single chainring up front, but the RD is back on now...

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [vjohn] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 13:24

Post #17 of 158 (16385 views)

I've ridden a 1xTT setup for the last 15 years or so, and here are my observations:

Terrain really doesn't matter in almost any situations if you use the appropriate gearing. I did Mt. Hood, which is one of the hillier TT's, with a 49T, 11-32 cobbled together 8 speed cassette. It was fine. I don't even thing I touched the 32.
A longer-cage derailleur helps! I have a mid-cage Dura Ace with a 13T bottom pulley, 11T top pulley and it works fine with up to a 34T
With a non-ramped/pinned chainring, the chain will stay on--usually.... Fashioning some sort of guide though is probably a good idea. I've lost the chain in 2 TT's out of about 50 or so, both times shifting the rear on really bumpy roads.

vjohn wrote:

You should probably consider a narrow/wide ring. These are popular for mtb and now also cyclocross single-ring setups, because they "hold" the chain much better. SRAM and Wolf Tooth both make excellent versions, RaceFace makes one with slightly shorter teeth. These may allow you to run no chainkeeper, assuming a proper length chain (too long increases risk of dropping).

Note that in 'cross and mtb these are meant to be paired with a clutch style rear derailleur, although those are obviously far bumpier scenarios than typical road use.

I love the 1x11 MTB set-up, but I actually wonder a bit about an increase in drivetrain losses from the narrow/wide chain? I don't care on my MTB as it's just for fun, but for a TT set-up I'd be apprehensive of using a narrow/wide ring until I knew that it wasn't costing power. I realize this is "embrocation vs. leg warmer" territory, as someone once said, but it's still worth considering. Also note that according to some, increased tension at the bottom of the chain (such as from a clutch rear derailleur) can increase drivetrain losses.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [roady] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 14:02

Post #18 of 158 (16326 views)

How many watts are we talking? It might be tempting to try. Even a 44/11 will get you around 32mph at a comfortably high cadence. How much time you you lose coming down Hawi if you couldn't pedal over 32mph. It still gets me 10mph with a 25T. I open to trying new things. I tried 165mm cranks and liked them. 1 less cable up front too and ditches a shifter.

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Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 14:41

Post #19 of 158 (16279 views)

I think your better bet is the 50t 110bcd ring from Wolf Tooth. You can run a narrower range cassette (12-27) for flatter races and then up to 11-32 for more hills. That's the same range as a 39/53 12-25.

Any idea on how much drag a front derailleur creates? I'm talking a mechanical one, not a brick like the Ultegra Di2 one.

To the OP, I don't think this will work for you, as I believe your Quarq is 130bcd.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 15:20

Post #20 of 158 (16241 views)

I did this to my Scott Plasma 3. 56t Osymetric big ring as a 1x10 with a long cage Sram red rear derailleur. Great setup with clean shifting but there were times where my chain would drop to the outside of the crank due to poor shifts in poor road conditions. Honestly, you do NOT want to deal with the hassles of having to stop, get off the bike slap the chain on with your fingers and get back to it. The benefits were minimal and although it was rare for a dropped chain, when it did happen it was just frustrating. I've since just switched to a rather wonderful 2x10 Sram Red yaw front derailleur and dura ace 9000 55-42 round rings or 54-44 osymetric and not experienced a single dropped chain since. You might want to consider this as a higher profile small ring such as a 42t or a 44t could prove more useful. 1x10 is probably more aero but you gotta ask yourself, if you lose the chain what is the point?

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 15:34

Post #21 of 158 (16218 views)

It's not like it could cost you a race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbEeM6yYeqQ (start at 17:45).

If you do it, make sure you pick a setup where RD shifting is still crisp and you won't drop your chain.

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Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 16:03

Post #22 of 158 (16180 views)

Jim Martin wrote:

slindell wrote:

The 3/32" rings for 1x10/11 with the tall tooth profiles would be what you are looking for.

http://www.bikeparts.com/...lts.asp?ID=BPC383926

Like this?

That one is 3/32" but has shift ramps which make it easier to move the chain off. The single speed versions without ramps (http://www.bikeparts.com/...lts.asp?ID=BPC153439) will hold the chain on better. Even so some sort of guide will help keep things on when on the edge cogs and it gets bumpy, at least the 1x9/10 mtn and cx bikes need it.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [slindell] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 17:47

Post #23 of 158 (16095 views)

slindell wrote:

Jim Martin wrote:

slindell wrote:

The 3/32" rings for 1x10/11 with the tall tooth profiles would be what you are looking for.

http://www.bikeparts.com/...lts.asp?ID=BPC383926

Like this?

That one is 3/32" but has shift ramps which make it easier to move the chain off. The single speed versions without ramps (http://www.bikeparts.com/...lts.asp?ID=BPC153439) will hold the chain on better. Even so some sort of guide will help keep things on when on the edge cogs and it gets bumpy, at least the 1x9/10 mtn and cx bikes need it.

I'll save everyone the trouble, since I've already been down this road... Blackspire make an 3/32 130 BCD 50T chainring for single speed, no ramps or pins: http://www.blackspire.com/...t/83/5948/266572/0/0

You could kill someone with one of these, so it's not the weight weenie option--but it's the biggest non-ramped/pinned 130BCD chainring I've found. MDT used to make TT-specific single ring aero chainrings, with slightly longer teeth to prevent chain drops--but I don't think they're around any longer.

Last edited by: roady: Nov 3, 14 17:48

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 18:59

Post #24 of 158 (16025 views)

i've been thinking about that same thing. I rode wisconsin on a compact 11-28 (i like to spin) and can get the same gearing with a 50/11-40 with a Shimano XTR rear der. My only concern there is the large gaps.

Re: What's stopping me: single chain ring? [agreif] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 14 19:38

Post #25 of 158 (16002 views)

Does anyone have wattage numbers to throw around on a single ring/no FD vs standard double?

With bigger cassettes becoming more and more common on road setups, this seems doable even for those of us who live and race in actual hills.

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