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Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [M Ernst]
[ In reply to ]
wow
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [M Ernst]
[ In reply to ]
There is still likely to be a civil action. It is the civil action in which the "value" of a human life is determined in our rather twisted legal system. Of course, it sounds like the driver has no insurance, so any judgment against him/her is likely uncollectible. Which reminds me people...RAISE YOUR UIM POLICY LIMITS!!!!
The whole thing must be crushing for the families involved.
The whole thing must be crushing for the families involved.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [M Ernst]
[ In reply to ]
His license had already been suspended and he was driving? Why isn't that a felony? I cannot believe the Iowa Legislature is this insensitive to the dangers on their highways....
That's a very touching piece, btw, and thanks for sharing it.
-Robert
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
That's a very touching piece, btw, and thanks for sharing it.
-Robert
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [sinkinswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
sinkinswimmer wrote:
There is still likely to be a civil action. It is the civil action in which the "value" of a human life is determined in our rather twisted legal system. Of course, it sounds like the driver has no insurance, so any judgment against him/her is likely uncollectible. Which reminds me people...RAISE YOUR UIM POLICY LIMITS!!!! The whole thing must be crushing for the families involved.
From the looks of it, the driver seems remorseful and was a cycling advocate. This looks like an unfortunate accident, more than anything, and not some road rage incident. I'm sure he'll get sued in civil court. Who knows what he's going to be liable for, but it'll probably be a little bit more than $1500.
Agree that it's a terrible tragedy, but I'd expand it to ALL parties involved.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [M Ernst]
[ In reply to ]
We had a cyclist hit and killed about a month ago in Delaware.
The driver hit the cyclist head on - continued on home - 1/4 a mile from the crash scene and then the next morning called the police saying he may have hit something the night before.
Cyclist died at the scene.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/17/dupont-exec-charged-hit-run-death/15770611/
Driver waived his preliminary court appearance.
The road was closed for hours with numerous emergency vehicles......the driver could see the accident scene from his house.....and then calls the next AM saying he may have hit something?
The driver hit the cyclist head on - continued on home - 1/4 a mile from the crash scene and then the next morning called the police saying he may have hit something the night before.
Cyclist died at the scene.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/17/dupont-exec-charged-hit-run-death/15770611/
Driver waived his preliminary court appearance.
The road was closed for hours with numerous emergency vehicles......the driver could see the accident scene from his house.....and then calls the next AM saying he may have hit something?
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [M Ernst]
[ In reply to ]
The guy manned up and plead guilty. At least it was a step in the right direction.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [Chris10]
[ In reply to ]
Chris10 wrote:
The guy manned up and plead guilty. At least it was a step in the right direction.This.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [d00d]
[ In reply to ]
Agreed hard on all parties....which is why i used plural for families. While the pain to the family losing someone is obvious....no one wants to kill some one with a car. There but forthe grace of God go I.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [M Ernst]
[ In reply to ]
It seems like the judge was a little constrained by the law. The accident happened and the DA set the charges. There's nothing the judge can do in this instance.
I am curious as to why the driver wasn't charged with something more serious than 'unsafe passing'. Whereas I agree that the driver did the right thing after the accident (stopped, called 911, plead guilty, didn't fight, etc.), I don't think this ruling is his nor the judge's fault. As the article points out, there needs to be more in the laws when it comes to this type of collision.
Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
I am curious as to why the driver wasn't charged with something more serious than 'unsafe passing'. Whereas I agree that the driver did the right thing after the accident (stopped, called 911, plead guilty, didn't fight, etc.), I don't think this ruling is his nor the judge's fault. As the article points out, there needs to be more in the laws when it comes to this type of collision.
Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [sinkinswimmer]
[ In reply to ]
no one wants to kill some one with a car
One would hope not. However, the actions and behaviors of many motorists would lead me and many other cyclists to think that they do. How else to explain the sometimes insane behaviors and actions of many motorists who routinely risk the safety/lives of cyclists, other motorists and even their own safety, all for getting down the road . . . . a few seconds faster??
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
One would hope not. However, the actions and behaviors of many motorists would lead me and many other cyclists to think that they do. How else to explain the sometimes insane behaviors and actions of many motorists who routinely risk the safety/lives of cyclists, other motorists and even their own safety, all for getting down the road . . . . a few seconds faster??
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [Chris10]
[ In reply to ]
Chris10 wrote:
The guy manned up and plead guilty. At least it was a step in the right direction.Probably wasn't too hard to plead guilty when he knew full well the extent of the possible punishment was really minimal.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [noofus]
[ In reply to ]
His guilty plea opens him up to civil liability.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Fleck wrote:
no one wants to kill some one with a car One would hope not. However, the actions and behaviors of many motorists would lead me and many other cyclists to think that they do. How else to explain the sometimes insane behaviors and actions of many motorists who routinely risk the safety/lives of cyclists, other motorists and even their own safety, all for getting down the road . . . . a few seconds faster??
Yeah, with what you see all the time it really makes you wonder.
I'm not saying they WANT to, I just think they don't care if they do.
I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [M Ernst]
[ In reply to ]
Ridiculous. A cyclist here was killed a couple years ago on a connector (with a WIDE shoulder - full lane width), the driver was most likely texting based on phone records and veered into the shoulder.
He paid a $113 fine for improper lane usage.
He paid a $113 fine for improper lane usage.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Actually, it seems pretty clear that some folks want to kill cyclists. They don't just because they may face consequences. But given the signal sent trial after trial, it may just become a common occurrence. 'Sorry judge, I didn't see him/her'.
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
'Sorry judge, I didn't see him/her'.
The power/weight of that phrase is extraordinary. People have been completely relinquished from any responsibility from minor incidents right on up to fatalities from saying it. It's the first thing that comes out of most motorists mouth, with any incident. ( Note I never say "accident" because, it rarely is a true, act-of-god accident)
I was nearly run over in a round-about recently while cycling, by a motorist when I had full right of way and was doing everything I was supposed to be doing. When I caught up to the guy at a traffic light, he laughed it off saying, "I didn't see you". That's really funny, pal - but illustrative of how glib and universal this is. Had he struck me or run me over, that's what he would have said - to the anyone and everyone, the first officer on the scene, the judge in the court etc . . "I didn't see him". And he would have had a VERY good chance of getting off scott-free!
But isn't that a admission of negligence when driving?? That you did not see something! When taking drivers ed I seem to recall my instructor going on and on about observation skills and knowing what's going on around you ALL THE TIME! I recall a friend who failed his drivers test, because he failed to check his blind spot, on a lane change! Sure, occasionally, stuff happens that you genuinely did not see, but the excuse has become the default for practically every traffic incident that's gone bad. Can't people (Judges, Police officers in particular) see that?
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
The power/weight of that phrase is extraordinary. People have been completely relinquished from any responsibility from minor incidents right on up to fatalities from saying it. It's the first thing that comes out of most motorists mouth, with any incident. ( Note I never say "accident" because, it rarely is a true, act-of-god accident)
I was nearly run over in a round-about recently while cycling, by a motorist when I had full right of way and was doing everything I was supposed to be doing. When I caught up to the guy at a traffic light, he laughed it off saying, "I didn't see you". That's really funny, pal - but illustrative of how glib and universal this is. Had he struck me or run me over, that's what he would have said - to the anyone and everyone, the first officer on the scene, the judge in the court etc . . "I didn't see him". And he would have had a VERY good chance of getting off scott-free!
But isn't that a admission of negligence when driving?? That you did not see something! When taking drivers ed I seem to recall my instructor going on and on about observation skills and knowing what's going on around you ALL THE TIME! I recall a friend who failed his drivers test, because he failed to check his blind spot, on a lane change! Sure, occasionally, stuff happens that you genuinely did not see, but the excuse has become the default for practically every traffic incident that's gone bad. Can't people (Judges, Police officers in particular) see that?
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Last weekend I was passed really close by a truck on the Natchez Trace in the morning (9am, full light, no sun in the face or anything),
the truck turns around and comes back and the driver waves...I go on, then the truck comes back behind and the lady on the passenger side says
'pull over, pull over'
'huh no, I'm training'
'well, you gotta be careful because if we hadn't looked up we would have hit you'
'why weren't you looking up in the first place since you're driving a vehicle on the road?'
silence...
'well be careful'
'you too, thank you'...
the truck turns around and comes back and the driver waves...I go on, then the truck comes back behind and the lady on the passenger side says
'pull over, pull over'
'huh no, I'm training'
'well, you gotta be careful because if we hadn't looked up we would have hit you'
'why weren't you looking up in the first place since you're driving a vehicle on the road?'
silence...
'well be careful'
'you too, thank you'...
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
When my girlfriend got hit 4 months ago that was the first thing out of the driver's mouth as well. Straight road with km's of visibility so to me it was an admission of being negligible and not an excuse. Of course he got nothing (I didn't think the guy should receive jail time.. I did think he should have had his license taken away and he should have been forced to go through an accredited driver school before retaking his road test).
Team Every Man Jack
Team Every Man Jack
Re: What price for killing a bicyclist? [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Fleck wrote:
'Sorry judge, I didn't see him/her'. The power/weight of that phrase is extraordinary. People have been completely relinquished from any responsibility from minor incidents right on up to fatalities from saying it. It's the first thing that comes out of most motorists mouth, with any incident. ( Note I never say "accident" because, it rarely is a true, act-of-god accident)
I was nearly run over in a round-about recently while cycling, by a motorist when I had full right of way and was doing everything I was supposed to be doing. When I caught up to the guy at a traffic light, he laughed it off saying, "I didn't see you". That's really funny, pal - but illustrative of how glib and universal this is. Had he struck me or run me over, that's what he would have said - to the anyone and everyone, the first officer on the scene, the judge in the court etc . . "I didn't see him". And he would have had a VERY good chance of getting off scott-free!
But isn't that a admission of negligence when driving?? That you did not see something! When taking drivers ed I seem to recall my instructor going on and on about observation skills and knowing what's going on around you ALL THE TIME! I recall a friend who failed his drivers test, because he failed to check his blind spot, on a lane change! Sure, occasionally, stuff happens that you genuinely did not see, but the excuse has become the default for practically every traffic incident that's gone bad. Can't people (Judges, Police officers in particular) see that?
Yes, very frustrating...... but not surprising with all the lax or not enforced DMV regulations regarding vision testing of drivers.
We need to keep the seniors and the Young (but mentally senile) citizens on the road.
As long as this is not straightened out, this excuse will have good traction (at least in the US).
We need to keep the seniors and the Young (but mentally senile) citizens on the road.
Distracted driving is the #1 cause of incidents on the road, by far. And that's where the disconnect is, because a motorist can stand in front of a police officer or a judge and say, "I didn't see her/him", and they stand a good chance of not getting charged with anything!
Of course modern technology is catching up - particularly with the obsessive mobile device users, and a quick check of the mobile activity with the users service provider, and it's easy to find out if the person was on the phone, texting or doing something else with their mobile device while driving - which in many jurisdictions now, is illegal( for hand held usage).
It's illegal here in Ontario, but when I am driving and when I am cycling, I see many "lap lookers", people who obviously have the mobile device sitting on their laps, out of view, but still using it, and being significantly distracted from the highly involved actions of driving.
New legislation in Ontario soon to pass, will hopefully give this more teeth. Soon, it will be a $1,000 fine and 3 demerit points for hand usage of any mobile device!
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Distracted driving is the #1 cause of incidents on the road, by far. And that's where the disconnect is, because a motorist can stand in front of a police officer or a judge and say, "I didn't see her/him", and they stand a good chance of not getting charged with anything!
Of course modern technology is catching up - particularly with the obsessive mobile device users, and a quick check of the mobile activity with the users service provider, and it's easy to find out if the person was on the phone, texting or doing something else with their mobile device while driving - which in many jurisdictions now, is illegal( for hand held usage).
It's illegal here in Ontario, but when I am driving and when I am cycling, I see many "lap lookers", people who obviously have the mobile device sitting on their laps, out of view, but still using it, and being significantly distracted from the highly involved actions of driving.
New legislation in Ontario soon to pass, will hopefully give this more teeth. Soon, it will be a $1,000 fine and 3 demerit points for hand usage of any mobile device!
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog