Swim Bike Run
Slowtwitch.com
  • Login >
Slowtwitch.com
Search menu
Hot Forum Topics

Poll

Comfort While Cycling
How much does comfort while cycling influence your overall race performance?
View Results


Home > Forum > Triathlon Forum > 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1

Triathlon Forum

Back To ForumPrint Thread

Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Tri
Classifieds
Lavender
Jobs
Notices
650c front on a hooker elite cat 1
Quote | Reply
phatswag
Sep 23, 14 13:48
Post #1 of 12 (3087 views)
Hi All,
this is my first posting to the forum. I inherited a Hooker Elite Cat 1 road bike and a bunch of cool hooker stuff along with it, including a 650c fork with an 18 hole 60mm over-lock-nut hub that accompanies the fork. I'd like to build the hub into a 650c wheel and install it along with the 650c fork on the road bike. Can anybody with experience or knowledge on this conversion advise me as to whether or not this is a dumb idea? I don't know the rake of either the 700c fork that's currently installed, or of the 650 that I'd like to replace it with. I'm concerned with the effect that this change in geometry will have on the bike's rideability.

I'll probably just be doing local 20k TTs.

Thanks in advance,
Charlie
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [phatswag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SuperDave
Sep 23, 14 14:23
Post #2 of 12 (3052 views)
phatswag wrote:
Hi All,
this is my first posting to the forum. I inherited a Hooker Elite Cat 1 road bike and a bunch of cool hooker stuff along with it, including a 650c fork with an 18 hole 60mm over-lock-nut hub that accompanies the fork. I'd like to build the hub into a 650c wheel and install it along with the 650c fork on the road bike. Can anybody with experience or knowledge on this conversion advise me as to whether or not this is a dumb idea? I don't know the rake of either the 700c fork that's currently installed, or of the 650 that I'd like to replace it with. I'm concerned with the effect that this change in geometry will have on the bike's rideability.

I'll probably just be doing local 20k TTs.

Thanks in advance,
Charlie

Charlie,

Probably a no go unless you can make a crown race that is ~50mm tall for the headset used on the 650c fork.
Along with your too-low BB and exceptionally steep head angle you'd likely be better off (aero and handling wise) on a modern fast 700c wheel than that old 650c relic.
-SD
https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [phatswag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrew Coggan
Sep 23, 14 14:57
Post #3 of 12 (3020 views)
phatswag wrote:
Hi All,
this is my first posting to the forum. I inherited a Hooker Elite Cat 1 road bike and a bunch of cool hooker stuff along with it, including a 650c fork with an 18 hole 60mm over-lock-nut hub that accompanies the fork. I'd like to build the hub into a 650c wheel and install it along with the 650c fork on the road bike. Can anybody with experience or knowledge on this conversion advise me as to whether or not this is a dumb idea? I don't know the rake of either the 700c fork that's currently installed, or of the 650 that I'd like to replace it with. I'm concerned with the effect that this change in geometry will have on the bike's rideability.

I'll probably just be doing local 20k TTs.

Thanks in advance,
Charlie

I and many other Hooker riders (e.g., Kent Bostick) did precisely what you're suggesting back in the 1990s. While the head tube angle increases by a degree or two (I worked it out at the time, but don't recall the exact figure), the lesser rake of the 650C fork keeps the trail well within the normal range, such the bike will handle just fine. You also don't really have to worry about the b.b. height, as it is very high w/ the 700C front wheel (befitting the bike's S. California/crit-centric/track-centric heritage) and simply drops to normal w/ the 650C front wheel.

Bottom line: go for it!
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A.
Sep 23, 14 15:06
Post #4 of 12 (3011 views)
SuperDave wrote:

Along with your too-low BB and exceptionally steep head angle you'd likely be better off (aero and handling wise) on a modern fast 700c wheel than that old 650c relic.
-SD

I hate to say it Dave, but I think you're 0 for 4 in that sentence above...I'm with Doc C. I think he should race the snot out of it :-)
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [phatswag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A.
Sep 23, 14 15:08
Post #5 of 12 (3008 views)
phatswag wrote:
Hi All,
this is my first posting to the forum. I inherited a Hooker Elite Cat 1 road bike and a bunch of cool hooker stuff along with it, including a 650c fork with an 18 hole 60mm over-lock-nut hub that accompanies the fork. I'd like to build the hub into a 650c wheel and install it along with the 650c fork on the road bike. Can anybody with experience or knowledge on this conversion advise me as to whether or not this is a dumb idea? I don't know the rake of either the 700c fork that's currently installed, or of the 650 that I'd like to replace it with. I'm concerned with the effect that this change in geometry will have on the bike's rideability.

I'll probably just be doing local 20k TTs.

Thanks in advance,
Charlie

Did you happen to get the "aero or die" TT bars with it?

BTW, if you decide you don't want to bother with it, let me know and I'll make you an offer...I'm still kicking myself for not buying Andy's a few years back :-)
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [phatswag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rambler
Sep 23, 14 15:32
Post #6 of 12 (2987 views)
How about a picture, you tease?
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SuperDave
Sep 23, 14 16:48
Post #7 of 12 (2950 views)
Tom A. wrote:
SuperDave wrote:

Along with your too-low BB and exceptionally steep head angle you'd likely be better off (aero and handling wise) on a modern fast 700c wheel than that old 650c relic.
-SD


I hate to say it Dave, but I think you're 0 for 4 in that sentence above...I'm with Doc C. I think he should race the snot out of it :-)

You are totally wrecking my chance to swap him for a new B2 frame and help relieve him of that "problem"

Jerk. ;)

-SD
https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A.
Sep 23, 14 17:18
Post #8 of 12 (2928 views)
SuperDave wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
SuperDave wrote:

Along with your too-low BB and exceptionally steep head angle you'd likely be better off (aero and handling wise) on a modern fast 700c wheel than that old 650c relic.
-SD


I hate to say it Dave, but I think you're 0 for 4 in that sentence above...I'm with Doc C. I think he should race the snot out of it :-)


You are totally wrecking my chance to swap him for a new B2 frame and help relieve him of that "problem"

Jerk. ;)

-SD

Of course I am...I want it :-P
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
damon_rinard
Sep 23, 14 17:29
Post #9 of 12 (2914 views)
Shaun Wallace rode a Kestrel I made for him to a silver medal in the pro pursuit worlds in 1991.

I calculated (at the time, now I'm going from memory) that the fork and wheel change lowered the front of the bike about 4" and the BB about 40% of that.

All the frame angles increased by about 4 degrees. Head tube was 74, now 78 degrees; roughly the same with the seat tube: was 74 (or 73.5?), became 78 (or 77.5?).
  • The lower frame stack was good for a pursuit position with aero bars.
  • The down-sloping top tube looked bitchin'.
  • The steeper seat angle matched what tri guys were doing: rider forward.
  • The lower BB was bad, but Shaun decided it would be okay on the track if he was careful.
  • The steeper head tube angle (even with the decreased rake of the 650C fork) made steering *really* quick. But Shaun said he liked it.

I'd expect similar changes on your Hooker. (Only, the lower BB will be an improvement on that bike.) So consider it, but know the downsides and make your own decision.

Cheers,
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
phatswag
Sep 26, 14 11:32
Post #10 of 12 (2774 views)
Hi All and thanks for these replies. The preponderance of opinion is to give it a whirl so I installed the fork and am having my shop build up the hub on an old 18h HED deep carbon rim. I'll post some pics when I get the wheel back this weekend.

Thanks again,
Charlie
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [phatswag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
aahydraa
Aug 27, 15 23:41
Post #11 of 12 (2431 views)
Any updates on how it handles? And what fork rake was the 650c? Thinking of doing a similar conversion on a different bike :)
Quote Reply
Re: 650c front on a hooker elite cat 1 [phatswag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Liaman
Aug 28, 15 2:44
Post #12 of 12 (2391 views)
Maybe a noob question, but aren't smaller front than back wheels illegal to race now?
Quote Reply
Back To ForumPrint Thread

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.