All 3

That being said, some RD do allow it.

Other?

$

there's a reason you don't list: money. let's say a race has a 15 percent no-show rate and the entry fee is $100. that's $1,500. if he lets the no-shows give or sell their entries to other folks then those other folks won't buy new entries, they'll buy the already purchased entries.

active.com has the ability to run a stub hub type service now.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I'm sure money is part of it but depending on the entry system used it can be a bit of a PITA too.

Its not directly the same but I used to do entries for large age group swim meets. The entry process was highly computer automated. We did allow some changes after the deadline, really only corrections, not "oh I forgot to enter" in order to keep things fair. Because those changes had to be done by hand and often entailed hand entering a bunch of info that if done as part of the normal process would just come to us with the electronic file and dealing with payment outside the automated system, it would literally take twice as long to do just 4 or 5 event entry corrections for people than it did to process the entire initial batch of 2000+ automated entries. I'm sure there is something similar going on with any entry system used for triathlons.

Because they are already losing their minds and getting divorced with all the shit they have to deal with.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Suppose they had a waiting list. You decide that you do not/ cannot race. You ask for a withdrawal from the race. The RD gives you 50% of your fee. In return, the RD sells your entry to the next person on the list at 100% of the posted entry fee (graded by time before the race). Now, the RD has received 150% of the money from a single slot. Why won't RDs, for the most part, do something like this?

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

"Why won't RDs, for the most part, do something like this?"

this is exactly what i'm advocating for. it's still not as "good", money-wise, as the current way, because the RD will oversell a sold out race anyway, just like an airline will oversell seats based on historic no-show data. but it's just good overall for our sport. there are certain industry behaviors that just push people away. even if we have to shame the RDs into change, it's better off for the sport, and for them, in general.

some RDs do have good refund policies.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I've written about this extensively on a few forums, not sure about here. I work for a race production company that produces a 900 runner 5k, a 1500 runner half marathon, and an 8500 runner marathon/relay. The 5k does not have a field limit, the half marathon sells out in about 2 weeks. For the marathon/relay, the relay we sell most slots via random draw lottery with about 20% more demand than we can accommodate based on some venue size limitations, and the marathon we sell out maybe 2 years out of 5, the other years we get within a couple hundred of capacity. For the marathon, we used to allow an entrant to transfer their bib to someone else, no questions asked. We now allow a marathon entrant to defer into the next year if they sign up and cannot run for some reason, up to about a month ahead of time. For the relay we allow team changes, including swapping all 5 team members. For the other races we do not allow transfers or give refunds.

One of the main reasons we tightened up our policy was because no matter how much we tried to accommodate our customers they always wanted us to make an exception to do things just exactly the way they thought it should be done. When you're dealing with this kind of volume for a part-time staff of a not-for-profit company the exceptions sink the ship. You need to have a standard policy or else your employees aren't going to be consistent with the message.

Another big reason we stopped allowing transfers was our sell-out time for the marathon increased from just under 2 months to almost 5 months in the first 3 years we allowed transfers. What happened was prior to allowing transfers runners knew they needed to sign up quickly if they wanted to race here. They understood there was urgency. When we started to allow transfers it took runners about 2 years to figure out that there are always going to be runners who get hurt, don't do the training, have something come up, etc, and that there was no longer a big rush for them to sign up because they could just buy a bib off the transfer market. On the other side of that issue, we also had runners who would sign up right away and if they didn't get the training in they knew they could sell their bib to somebody else, no problem. I feel bad for runners who get injured after they sign up for a race, not so bad for runners who don't put in the training they should have or who decide to prioritize some other event over the race they signed up for. Once runners figured out the system it killed our cash flow for about 5 years as entry fees came in later and later in the cycle, something we've only been able to fix by changing the payment structure of some of our sponsor agreements.

Now we offer a 1-time transfer. If you sign up for the marathon this year and something comes up, anything, just let us know and we'll reserve a spot for you next year. You have to pay about 50% of the entry fee next year, we're around $100 regular price, your typical mid-size city mid-size marathon. The 50% fee makes it so the person who wants to defer has some skin in the game, I don't think that's unfair. We still get flack because you can only defer up to 30 days out. At that point we start trying to lock down our entrant database (would be a heck of a lot easier to do without relay teams, but they are a huge part of our local support), get personalized bibs entered, get the shirt order finalized regarding sizes, etc. Every year we get dozens of calls and emails after the deferral deadline asking for an exception. We also won't extend a deferral more than 1 year because we don't want to get into this being an option for somebody year after year...just pull the trigger, get your training in, and do the race!

For races with a fixed field size, keeping a waiting list and allowing transfers can work, but for races without a practical cap there isn't a big incentive on the RD's side. Unless of course racers start voting with their feet and going to other races, which doesn't happen very often. For our half marathon we don't allow transfers either, but it's only a $30 race so not a lot of people send angry emails looking for refunds at that price point. For that race I will allow additional entrants after we sell out when I'm getting calls and emails from entrants telling me they aren't going to be able to race, but those additional entries usually go to people who offer to volunteer or I'll charge them $1 just to complete a legal transaction. And for the 5k no transfers or deferrals either but that's only a $25 race for raceday registration ($15-$20 ahead of time) so not that big a deal.

Tons of other reasons why races do/don't allow transfers, refunds, or deferrals. The process is getting easier every year for races who want to provide this service, but as noted above there are some good reasons why a race might say it's not worth it - lots of reasons you might not think of until you start producing races and try to provide this kind of service.

Another reason could be to prevent ticket scalping. If transfer of slots was allowed, then people could by slots for very popular races with the intent to resell them with a hefty margin.

Some races allow it - I don't see this so much in triathlon but more with some running races

It is more work. And it depends on if the race has the sort of functionality to deal with this via their online registration supplier. If it's a manual thing, most smart RD's will just say "no thanks". Why? the peak of this if left uncontrolled will happen close to the actual race when they can least afford the time to be distracted by this. Think about that for a second.

Now as noted some online registration suppliers can run this in an automated fashion, with minimal work required from the RD and their staff. Transfers are allowed, in a set window of time. There is typically a minor additional admin fee. Entrants can transfer their entry from one person to another during this time.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

That's why the RD shouldn't allow a transfer to just anyone. If the person needing to drop out of the race doesn't get to decide the recipient of their slot, there wouldn't be an issue. A waiting list with the slot going to the next available solve that problem.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

We allow transfers up to 30 days from the event, with a $15 fee.

We allow deferrals to a later event up to 30 days from the event, with a $15 fee.

No refunds, ever.

I WISH I had to deal with waiting lists, what a wonderful problem to have.

Actual bib transfers ( I pick up my bib and you race with it ) are a big no-no, and cause for permanent ban... I've heard that this is in the works from USAT as well.

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Ex Race Director, put out of business by the Rona

"Another reason could be to prevent ticket scalping."

none of the excused are really valid any longer. including this one. if the transfer is handled through the race registration engine, no scalping. you, the registrant, cannot resell your entry directly. you can only log back into active (or whomever) and express your interest in redeeming your entry. you lose $X if you do so, but, you don't lose $Y. you get some decent amount of your money back.

you go to the end of the line when you do this. first come, first served, that is, if you register 1 year ahead of time and change your mind a week later, you're going to get your money back very quickly if this is a race that sells out in a week. if the race never sells out you'll never get your money back. if you wait until 3 months before the race and there are 34 people in front of you who want to get a refund, there's got to be 35 who want to enter before you get your money back.

both the RD and the registration engine take a cut of the difference between $X and $Y. the engine makes a service fee. the RD makes some money to compensate him for giving up the money his was making from oversubscribing his race.

this is one way to do it. however you do it, you just don't let the registrant directly sell his entry. then you don't have the scalping problem.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman