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Going from non swimmer to IM
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I've been pretty athletic the past few years. I played tennis for the last 8 years and picked up cycling a year ago. I am confident I can bike the 112 miles. (My last solo century, I averaged 16 mi/hr with ~ 1000ft elevation gain and ~1000ft loss.) I am also confident I can run the 26.2. (My last long training run was 15 miles averaging just over 10:00/mi)

However, I just started swimming and it has got to be one of the hardest things I've ever done. I know how to swim but have never been a quick swimmer. Currently I'm training in the pool but I'm having trouble maintaining my efforts. I can do 25 yards in 30 seconds (that's a slow estimate) but I have serious trouble swimming more than 50 yards without a break. Even if I keep my heart rate lower, I begin to fatigue in the shoulders. I think my biggest limiter is my inability to constantly take in oxygen.

I want to be able to do IM WI 2015 so I have a year to get it done. My goal is to finish; not to break any records. Is it a reasonable goal to be able to do IMWI in a year? I probably have enough time to swim 1-2 hours a day for 3 days a week. In addition to your opinion on whether or not I need more than a year to prepare, I will take any tips you can give me. I'm also training with a forerunner 910xt.
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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Join a masters team, this way you have a coach to look at you fix your technique etc. you will also have others to swim with. Swimming is very technique based, trust me this will help you big time.

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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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I can't speak as a non-swimmer to IM, but I did go from a non-swimmer to a HIM finisher in July 2014 (Racine 70.3). And, I'm signed up for IM Louisville 2015. Learning to swim has been a real challenge for me. Couldn't even put my face in the water before December 2012, and then it took me nearly six months to learn to swim 400 yards. I was a decent biker and runner, having done a number of duathlons as well as the Chicago Marathon. Had no idea swimming would be such a challenge in terms of the breathing rhythm, endurance, and strength that's needed! Tons of private swimming lessons at the YMCA finally proved the key for me (I should have done them much sooner), plus getting out in Lake Michigan for open water swims. I'm still really slow (took me just over an hour to do Racine), so I'm going to be doing more strength training outside the pool this winter, plus swimming at least 3x per week. I use the SUUNTO Ambit 2 to track my swims - love how it counts my strokes/distance/pace so I don't have to keep track of laps. My husband has done IM WI 3 times and IM MT 1 time. I know from his experience that you've picked one of the tougher swim starts (hence why I've opted for IMKY!). We have a friend doing IM WI 2014 who learned to swim about a year ago, too. She's also slow but will get it done. So, in a nutshell, I think your goals is doable -- my lessons learned are that I should have gotten good private lessons from the get-go and done more strength training. Good luck! Here is a link to a website that helped me learn to swim 1 mile; I'm now doing the program to learn the IM distance: http://ruthkazez.com/...ing/IronmanSwim.html
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [chitri2013] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely get some coaching for technique, out of the three sports swimming is the most dependent on technique. It is very easy to expend a heap of energy for little speed if you're directing your energy the wrong way.
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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Proper lessons.

No use doing it wrong, but hard. That will just ingrain bad habits.

Take some private lessons with a coach. Then join a squad, then have regular technique tune ups from your coach and you'll be fine. You won't win but you will win the admiration of your friends and family, and that's the most important thing.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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I started swimming in january 13, before that i could not take one single freestyle stroke. A month ago i finished the swim leg in an olympic in 29 minutes. I took 6 90min lessons and have swum at most 1h/week, maybe a total of 50h since jan 13. I know i´m not fast but i´m really happy with my progress so far and i know that more time in the water would make med a lot faster but for know i will gain more time by training for the run...
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [Machee] [ In reply to ]
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Machee wrote:
Join a masters team, this way you have a coach to look at you fix your technique etc. you will also have others to swim with. Swimming is very technique based, trust me this will help you big time.

This^^

I was fairly close to an adult onset non swimmer prior to my first IM a few years ago - bike didn't faze me, run didn't bother me - the thought of the swim scared the bejezus out of me. I signed up to Masters squad about a week after I signed on for IM and it was the best thing I ever did for my swimming.
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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My x1 advice from a non swimmer
Read about swimming to learn something about it
Watch swimmers - good swimmers. You will actually learn from just watching what they do.
If you're really bad, get some coaching. But this isn't as important as the above.
Swim lots if you can. All good swimmers swim - lots no exception.
Swim with others if you can (squad) but this is not as important as the above IMO.

Simple proof- 50 year old ex footballer
Never ever did squads
Never ever did swimming consistently as training before 2013
Couldn't swim out if sight on a dark night (true). Embarrassment to my kids.
Only swimming related stuff was watching my kids - albeit for 10 years
Self coached ie No coaching other than my own kids advice ("your hopeless dad")
Only about 2 hrs max per week swimming for about 9months (had to learn to ride so busy)
1:00:04 IM swim. In a wetsuit! Followed advice and found feet.
Can be done!
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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I was in your situation 3 years ago when i didn't even know how to swim. Taught myself by watching a dvd called finding freestyle. A lot of folks here object to his teachings, but at that point, i didn't really know where to start and netflix had the dvd for rent so i just started that way. I used those techniques for my first triathlon year. I was never first or last out of the water, but always near the back of the pack. That year i did a sprint and an olympic.
Fast forward this year, i competed a full IM. Beginning of this year i took my first real swim classes, a 12 week period (once a week). He taught us a lot. I cut my half ironman swim time by 18 minutes. But given that swimming is such a short distance on any race, i never dedicated enough time a week for it and my IM swim time showed it, 1:36 (though i had 5 huge cramp attacks on my legs that prevented me from swimming for a few minutes each time). I only swam at most 2 hours a week and most of the time just 1 hour a week. In hind sight, i am actually glad i did this. I spent more time with my family and more time training for the other 2 sports that have a greater impact on time. The fast swimmers here probably finishes their IM swim in around an 1:00-1:10. I lost only 26 minutes to that. I made that up on the bike/run. I came out of the swim ranked in 1900s and there were a total of 2300 athletes. I finished in the 700s.

I know i will never place high on my AG but am glad i was able to participate in such an amazing event. For me, enjoying the training, enjoying my family, enjoying my life is more important than trying to go sub 11 hours. :)
Last edited by: baldiesrt: Aug 29, 14 4:51
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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I never cease to be amazed by the number of people who go into a race without being able to swim well. Note for those who participate rather than race, I have less amazement.

If I told a reasonably good biker I could take thirty or forty minutes off their IM bike time they would pay thousands for the equipment (they do, by the way, when they buy a Tri bike,. aero helmet, drink system, power meter, shoes, speed suit, aero anything ).

If I told anyone they could take thirty minutes off their PB in a Marathon, I could sell them any shoe, short, top, cap or glasses, going, or a training program for that matter.

Make someone get wet twice a week for any reasonable exertion, and all you need is a suit and goggles (and maybe a littel shampoo) forget it. And yet it's the easiest, cheapest, cleanest thirty minutes you will ever find in a race and the best setup for the rest of the day, bar none. And yet I watch them wander about in the pool for years never getting faster, never taking the slightest notice of coaches, videos or their stroke. Doh!

I have (because of circumstances) walked the marathon, carried a bike, fixed flats and suffered road rash and still finished without problem.
But I have never drowned, swallowed gallons of seawater, or had to be towed in on a paddle board with a DNF
(and that doesn't mean "did not find")

You want to have an easy day. Learn to swim. No excuses. Learn to swim, it's a life saver.
It won't take a year if you apply yourself.
If you have enough skill to stay upright on a bike, you can learn to swim.
If you don't fall down stairs (or up) when you run, ditto.

And here's the bonus, when you finish the race, you can jump in any lake to cool down and you won't drown.
When you go on holiday, you will have something to do when you get to the beach.
When you get in a boat......you can get off anywhere.

Good luck :))
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [baldiesrt] [ In reply to ]
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baldiesrt wrote:
I was in your situation 3 years ago when i didn't even know how to swim. Taught myself by watching a dvd called finding freestyle. A lot of folks here object to his teachings, but at that point, i didn't really know where to start and netflix had the dvd for rent so i just started that way. I used those techniques for my first triathlon year. I was never first or last out of the water, but always near the back of the pack. That year i did a sprint and an olympic.
Fast forward this year, i competed a full IM. Beginning of this year i took my first real swim classes, a 12 week period (once a week). He taught us a lot. I cut my half ironman swim time by 18 minutes. But given that swimming is such a short distance on any race, i never dedicated enough time a week for it and my IM swim time showed it, 1:36 (though i had 5 huge cramp attacks on my legs that prevented me from swimming for a few minutes each time). I only swam at most 2 hours a week and most of the time just 1 hour a week. In hind sight, i am actually glad i did this. I spent more time with my family and more time training for the other 2 sports that have a greater impact on time. The fast swimmers here probably finishes their IM swim in around an 1:00-1:10. I lost only 26 minutes to that. I made that up on the bike/run. I came out of the swim ranked in 1900s and there were a total of 2300 athletes. I finished in the 700s.

I know i will never place high on my AG but am glad i was able to participate in such an amazing event. For me, enjoying the training, enjoying my family, enjoying my life is more important than trying to go sub 11 hours. :)


How do you think that impacted the rest of your race? If you are cramping that badly in the first hour of a race, I can pretty much guarantee that it is detrimental to the rest of the race. That cramping erased a good chunk of the advantage that you gained while training for the other sportsinstead of training the swim.

1:10 for an IM swim isn't fast. Its good for a triathlete, its respectable, but not "fast". the fast guys on this board are :55 or better. You are giving up 40 minutes right out of the gate to "fast" guys and girls. at least.

but that isn't really the point. You learned to swim 3 years ago, you aren't realistically going to be one of the fast swimmers anytime soon (although you probably could be if you wanted to badly enough). the point is, what is the marginal speed you'll gain by swimming more and biking less, or running less, or watching less TV? that margin is more than just the 5 minutes you'll speed up on the swim itself. it means that you won't have cramped on the swim, saving your legs to do an even better bike ride. that better, fresher bike allows you to have a better run. one or 2 additional swims a week will easily save someone in your position 15-20 minutes over the course of an IM, because you'll get through it fresher, even though the swim is only 5 minutes faster.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Aug 29, 14 11:06
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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as a tennis player, you probably have reasonable flexibility and general upper body strength, so at this point it is a matter of learning the technique, building up your swim specific strength.

it'll take time, have patience and it will come.

to help you, find a coach and /or join a masters squad. also, watch as much swimming video as you can, take advantage of the swimsmooth resources, don't be afraid to take video and post it here (we won't laugh much, promise).

remember, technique, technique, technique. swimming is 100% technique, and 100% hard work. you don't sacrifice one for the other. it's both. There's a reason swimmers have the muscles they do, and it isn't from swimming easy laps in the pool.

once you get sufficiently proficient in the pool (and you will) get in some open water practice sessions.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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cnguyen0320 wrote:
I've been pretty athletic the past few years. I played tennis for the last 8 years and picked up cycling a year ago. I am confident I can bike the 112 miles. (My last solo century, I averaged 16 mi/hr with ~ 1000ft elevation gain and ~1000ft loss.) I am also confident I can run the 26.2. (My last long training run was 15 miles averaging just over 10:00/mi)

However, I just started swimming and it has got to be one of the hardest things I've ever done. I know how to swim but have never been a quick swimmer. Currently I'm training in the pool but I'm having trouble maintaining my efforts. I can do 25 yards in 30 seconds (that's a slow estimate) but I have serious trouble swimming more than 50 yards without a break. Even if I keep my heart rate lower, I begin to fatigue in the shoulders. I think my biggest limiter is my inability to constantly take in oxygen.

I want to be able to do IM WI 2015 so I have a year to get it done. My goal is to finish; not to break any records. Is it a reasonable goal to be able to do IMWI in a year? I probably have enough time to swim 1-2 hours a day for 3 days a week. In addition to your opinion on whether or not I need more than a year to prepare, I will take any tips you can give me. I'm also training with a forerunner 910xt.

So am I correct to assume you've never done a triathlon? Why straight to IM? You might want to try a shorter race first to see if you even enjoy it - would save you a lot of time and money if you end up not liking it. Also helps to get some open water experience.
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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GET PRIVATE LESSONS BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE!

Learn to swim right at the beginning & you'll be so far ahead of the learning curve. Ignore Masters. Ignore workouts. Learn the basics. Learn the proper technique. All else will fall into place once you know how to swim properly.

Otherwise...10 years. 10,000 hours.

#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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It actually didn't impact my race at all. The cramping wasn't caused by me using my legs. I'm actually not sure why I cramped. I haven't spoke to my swim coach since the race. But the cramping started on one leg specifically near the knee cap. It gradually went down the leg to the other leg. When I swim, I don't kick so I am not sure what caused the cramping. (In the pool I do use my legs) But again, say it is 40 minutes I saved, does the 40 minutes impact me on finishing the race? No. I am not a fop and I don't think the OP is one as well since he doesn't swim much. I am talking from my experience with the lack of swim lessons/training.
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [tpero] [ In reply to ]
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tpero wrote:
So am I correct to assume you've never done a triathlon? Why straight to IM? You might want to try a shorter race first to see if you even enjoy it - would save you a lot of time and money if you end up not liking it. Also helps to get some open water experience.

Never done a triathlon. I'm not a big racer which is why triathlons in general don't appeal to me. I want to do an Ironman to test my physical ability, not to compete. I feel like IM is in general something people do to complete and not to compete, thereby relieving me of the competitive atmosphere that I do not like.
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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First, change the date of your first IM to 3-5 years from now. Second, get a swim coach and then once you get a decent stroke (ie, can swim 100m in 1:30 or better), join a good masters group. Spend the next few years learning the sport from the sprint up, and focus on getting stronger on both the bike and run. It will be a much better process than trying to do a full IM in a year with where you are now. Most likely you are looking at trying to survive the day, rather than racing or even enjoying it.

Jack



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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Another vote for swim lessons or Masters to get proper teaching/coaching on proper technique. Made a big difference for me as far as getting comfortable in the pool and then building endurance. That and practice practice practice!



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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CPT Chaos wrote:
First, change the date of your first IM to 3-5 years from now. Second, get a swim coach and then once you get a decent stroke (ie, can swim 100m in 1:30 or better), join a good masters group. Spend the next few years learning the sport from the sprint up, and focus on getting stronger on both the bike and run. It will be a much better process than trying to do a full IM in a year with where you are now. Most likely you are looking at trying to survive the day, rather than racing or even enjoying it.

Jack

That's bull, with respect. I'd keep your original goal and go for it.

I still can't swim 100m in 1.30 and I was happily MOP in my last IM. Before I signed up for my first IM I got in the pool to see if I could swim 3km. If I could, I was doing it. Took me 1 hour 20 and lots of breast stroke but I got there, so signed up and started with masters the next week.

Just have a plan and stick to it.
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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I have been swimming now for 3 years, M35-39. What a frustrating journey it has been. I did the group adult lessons to start. Then I did the masters workouts. I swam really hard. I hired a private coach for a few months during a very heavy swim block after my first IM, IMWI 2013. During that block, I was swimming 6 days per week, for 12 weeks straight. She really taught me how to accomplish a swim workout. Most workouts were 3500 scy. As this summer came and my training went to a much more balanced schedule, my swim times got slower and slower. I was starting to hate going to the pool. So I took a flyer on a local tri coach for a 1 on 1 swim assessment for 1 hour. This assessment changed everything! She corrected my form (TECHNIQUE IS EVERYTHING) in 1 one hour pool session. She suggested a book for me to read, which I highly recommend for you to read Swim Speed Secrets by Sheila Taormina. Now, only 6 weeks later, I actually feel like a swimmer in the pool now. I look forward to swimming now. Reading that book has absolutely been the biggest and cheapest single thing that is making a massive difference in my triathlon experience. Hire a coach, if things don't get better for you, find a different coach for a quick look. You don't need to marry them, just an hour at the pool. Read books on swimming. Finally, swim. Swimming many times per week will be better for you at first than swimming very far in a single workout. It will get better. It will get easier. Hang in there because it will take some time. Oh ya, sign up for IMWI 2015. Don't wait. I should have asked, if you're signing up for IMWI, are you near Milwaukee at all? The coach that changed everything for me at the pool is from Milwaukee.
Last edited by: Ktri: Aug 30, 14 10:24
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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I started tri swim training this January, coming from a less athletic background than you described. I did a Sprint and Olympic this year and feel like my swimming has come far enough that I can do a half IM next Spring, not fast. If you follow the tips above, and your primary goal is finishing, I think you could do it in a year, but two might be a little easier.
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the advice so far guys. I've made it a priority to hit the pool at least every other day in the last week and I think it has been getting better. I'm still having trouble keeping my efforts down. My last swim session, I swam maybe 1000 yards in 50 yard increments. I was really struggling to stay relaxed once I got to 35/40 yards and I was fatiguing quickly. At least this is a step up from fatiguing after 25 yards.

I am a student and am on a student budget so lessons are something I would like to keep as a last resort although I can get 3 1/2 hour lessons for $60 which isn't too bad. I also have a swimmer friend who can maybe help me out but how much progress do you think I can make by simply using online resources such as Swim Smooth? Is that good enough or will I need someone to really look at my stroke?
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Re: Going from non swimmer to IM [cnguyen0320] [ In reply to ]
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cnguyen0320 wrote:
Thanks for all the advice so far guys. I've made it a priority to hit the pool at least every other day in the last week and I think it has been getting better. I'm still having trouble keeping my efforts down. My last swim session, I swam maybe 1000 yards in 50 yard increments. I was really struggling to stay relaxed once I got to 35/40 yards and I was fatiguing quickly. At least this is a step up from fatiguing after 25 yards.

I am a student and am on a student budget so lessons are something I would like to keep as a last resort although I can get 3 1/2 hour lessons for $60 which isn't too bad. I also have a swimmer friend who can maybe help me out but how much progress do you think I can make by simply using online resources such as Swim Smooth? Is that good enough or will I need someone to really look at my stroke?

You really need someone to look at your stroke; your swimmer friend could potentially be of great help if he/she has the ability to communicate well enough for you to grasp what you're doing wrong, and for you to be able to correct the problem. Almost all good swimmers can watch someone swim for 10 sec and judge someone's stroke, but not all good swimmers can put into words what it is you need to do differently, which is why an experienced swim coach/instructor is really the best. I'd try your friend first and see how that works out, as he/she will prob need to watch you at least once a week to keep your stroke improvement on track, and/or just keep you from "back-sliding" into former bad habits:)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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