FINA World Cup started 89/90. I don't know the $$, but 1992 with the "Dream Team" was the first professionals in the game. Before, you could only make money through endorsements and stipends, with restrictions. After that (Thank you television!), it was a changed game.



You pay for a college scholarship any time you drink Gatorade, Powerade, buy Under Armour, Nike, etc. Because of television and advertising, large corporations pay many many millions to schools and professional teams to use their stuff and feature their logo on their uniforms, which then get eyeballs on the telly. Most professional sports do the same, they sell sponsorship and advertising. The more popular the sport (Soccer/football, american football, basketball, hockey, etc), the more attention it commands, the more money it gets from sponsors, the more they can afford to pay professionals.

If you truly want to change the landscape for professionals and their pay scales, find a way to make triathlon interesting for television. Until joe slob sitting on his couch with beer and wings can find something to get behind, cheer and argue with his friends about while watching triathlon, things will stay the way they are.

Everyone decries cross fit, but they got Reebok on board, made it popular and got it on ESPN. Prize money for the latest Crossfit Games? 1.75 million. $275,000 to first (male AND female), paying 20 deep. They also pay extra for winning individual events. And that is due to increase on a scale until it reaches 3 million in 2020. Not bad for glorified aerobics. (Just for reference, that's almost 3x the money available at Kona).

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

What do you mean with.
FINA World Cup started 89/90. I don't know the $$, but 1992 with the "Dream Team" was the first professionals in the game. Before, you could only make money through endorsements and stipends, with restrictions. After that (Thank you television!), it was a changed game. ??
Many athletes in what you Americans call Olympic sports made money before 1992. The cross country world cup started in 1982 as an example. You had money in track. Carl Lewis demanded $1m to show up with his Santa Monica TT.

Nice 3 paragraphs.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Why not cover Lake Placid? You said it was a monument race, it' the same race in the same location with or without pros. Do age groupers not matter to ST? I assume it's age groupers that are the main traffic on ST which makes ST profitable. Race photos and top age group results will be of an interest to most on this site. ST and other tri sites not covering Lake Placid will have more of an impact on the races irrelevance and future than if pros are or are not at the race. ST not covering Lake Placid shows you are mad at the WTC.

 it' the same race in the same location with or without pros. //

This has to be the most idiotic statement in the thread thus far. How in the world is it the same race without the pros? it may or may not be the same course, but it certainly is not the same race. And other than yourself and maybe a couple others, most AG'ers would prefer to be watching pros race while sitting on the couch. Just like all other sports on TV, unless it is your kid on a high school team, you want to be watching the pros.

That is a completely false statement.

"Do age groupers not matter to ST?"

i would guess we've interviewed at least 40 to 50 age group athletes. i'm pretty sure we're the king of age group features. and, yes, we'll cover age group nationals and worlds. but, no, we're not going to cover races that feature only age group racers (other than nationals and a very few certain races) because you all have demonstrated to us by your reading habits that you like to read age group INTERVIEWS but you pay very little attention to RACE COVERAGE when the winners are age groupers.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Hey Mike, nice work in Louisville and throughout your season.

Sorry if this has been explained but I'm just wondering what you are hoping for with WTC prize purses? If WTC has limited the amount of $ it is willing to put in pro purses (which is obviously has or it would have just increased purses across the board) would you prefer the old model of smaller and shallower purses at all races?

Or is the goal to sign in order to hope for the newer bigger purses as well as the old purses?

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JT Multisport | Facebook | Instagram | World Sport Coach

I think a good solution is to have 2 IM distance races in each "region" as already defined by IM with both points and money (higher concentration of $ here). The rest can just have money... smaller purses than ones with money and points. That way the people that can and shpuld be focusing on Kona can get their exposure at these big races. And up and coming pros can race against each other for smaller purses. However, if a big name athlete wanted to race for less money in these races, I wouldnt be opposed to that. Its nice to have a couple hot shots in the field to get a guage for where you are but still have a chance to at least break even in prize money... and hopefully get some sponsors to notice you along the way.

So pretty close to ITU current model is general consensus? That gets my vote.

Maybe throw something about the goals into your petition page. I wasnt sure what they were. Might just have been my inability to comprehend though.

Big props for showing some initative at making a change. Best of luck for the rest of your season.

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JT Multisport | Facebook | Instagram | World Sport Coach

Some on here like to say "pros don't matter to me" and in the same context,I'll say reporting on AGers doesn't matter. There is no context in AG racing like there is in the pros. It's more of a pat yourself on the back like you get at your local sprint Tri, where it *really doesn't matter* on a bigger national scene. Pros racing a WTC race has context within the KPR, AGers not so much.

So when your race series wants to drop pros you drop national relevance, that's just being real, that's how businesses work. WTC is making a business decision and thus so are national media members. This isn't to get back at WTC, this is to show that now "there is nothing to see here, move along."

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Sorry I think diferent then you and are an idiot in your mind. I've volunteered at IMLOU 6 times in the morning and spent the whole day watching, not for the pros or to help WTC, but to support and watch the age groupers. I bet there are many more like me. Its awesome to see people achieving their goals.

I enjoy and look forward to the a age grouper interviews because for the most part I can relate, thanks for making them a part of your site. Interviews of IM age grouper winners could be cool, and may help keep races without pros relevant on ST. When I look at race results its neat to see how fast the pros went but I'm much more interested in the times of my age group and the one I will be moving into.

"I've volunteered at IMLOU 6 times in the morning and spent the whole day watching, not for the pros or to help WTC, but to support and watch the age groupers. I bet there are many more like me. Its awesome to see people achieving their goals."

one of the great traditions of our sport - something which has helped our sport grow to its current popularity - is seeing not just people like you, but the pros themselves honor what you honor. contestants at races like the hawaiian ironman have for decades have been greeted at the finish by athletes like chrissie wellington at the finish line as the come across.

what we do NOT have in triathlon is a clear distinction between pro and AGer. one of the hallmarks of triathlon, that has helped us grow, is that lack of demarcation. how did that 1-on-1 basketball game with lebron james go for you? how did you do in your race around the NASCAR oval with kyle busch? in triathlon, our pros - tho among the very best endurance athletes in the world - have been accessible to you, and you can (and do) line up next to them. that's always been a part of the charm of triathlon.

so, please don't make this about the pros versus the AGers, or the pros or the AGers. there's no "versus" here.

what's happening here is an integral part of YOUR race experience is getting excised from some very important races. and if it's not part of your race experience, or if you don't recognize that it is, then, okay. but if ironman took away all the porta potties and you made it into the porta potties versus the AGers (i don't take a pre-race shit, that's not why i come to an ironman), i think it's short sighted not to recognize the value of the porta pottie at an ironman.

some of us who've been around for the entire history of the sport understand the value of porta potties, and of the pros. you could take just about any element away from the race - the clock, for example, some people think finish times are irrelevant - and you'll find people who'll not only say that the clock is not needed, further they'll turn it into a false contest between the clock and the age groupers. the race clock, the timing systems, the porta potties, the age group racers, the pros, the marshals, the lifeguards, the volunteers, these are all elements to our race that we've grown up with since 1980 or so. some of us who were there i 1980 - monty included - saw firsthand the constituent parts of triathlon that made it special and popular, and one of those constituent parts is going to be missing from a number of large races that were built utilizing ALL the constituent parts.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I agree with this. Wish there was a like button. Thanks.

I think Dan is right on target.

Also, WTC has realized that today's CEO, doctor, attorney, business owner, fill in the blank is yesterday's golfer. Except with golf, you can't tie the line against Tiger, Phil, or Rory. And there is a huge market for that- hence all the new races, new technology to buy and use to improve your race experience or finish, and the mystique of calling yourself an Ironman. Last last but most importantly, the higher average disposable incomes they bring to the expos, sponsors, communities, and the WTC.
That to me is the biggest factor or age groupers. Normal guys and girls who just want to cross the finish line and put it on their resume.

Those people probably don't care as much if there is a pro athlete also staying the same race. Then the are athletes like me who look forward to toeing the line with the likes of McDonald, Evoe, Hermanson, et al. It's part of the race experience that I look forward to and why I support #keepourpros

I think Dan is very spot on in his arguments too... hard to disagree with the man who is so deeply involved in the sport and sees many parts of it that we can only read about (and probably not fully understand).

Thanks Linden for the support!

They "made" money, but they couldn't live off that money and retain amateur status. All appearance fees, etc., had to be placed into trust funds and not accessed freely in order to maintain amateur status. The 1988 Games were the last "amateur" games, after those games the IOC declared that all professionals were eligible, if their IF allowed it. I don't know how much they were allowed to access for daily living, but it wasn't unrestricted.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |