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Re: With everyone's obsession about aero, has anyone bothered to calculate their CdA? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:

An oldie, but a goody:
http://www.academia.edu/...mech_1998_14_276-291

Wind tunnel and "on road" derived power requirements match. 'Nuff said.




jackmott wrote:
Also not a PhD, but I have heard one say you have something wrong, but I don't know what, and at first I was thinking the same as you.

I think maybe though what is wrong with your statement about error is that it assumes that the measured power is 100% accurate

Also if we are looking at the error of this plot to evaluate the effectiveness of these equations, we also have to consider that the wind tunnel measured CdA used as input into those equations is not 100% accurate either.

No idea where 2.7 watts comes from though.


The question here, really, is "how well do Wind tunnel and "on road" derived power requirements match".

If a guy with a PhD says I have something wrong - well, all I can do is be perfectly transparent and offer up the data I'm working off of. Other than that, not sure what else I can do... :shrug:

The journal article clearly states on page 284 (first paragraph) that the standard error of _measurement_ is 2.7W. I replicate this value with my data set (close enough!) but have to make an assumption about measurement instrument reliability. Reporting standard error of _measurement_ is an odd choice - in the context of how this plot has been presented it is confusing at best and misleading at worst. One of the junior authors that put his name on the article still seems to be confused.

The standard error that excel spits out is closer to 17 watts than it is 2.7 watts, for sure.

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Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
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Last edited by: BikeTechReview: Sep 8, 14 19:36
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Re: With everyone's obsession about aero, has anyone bothered to calculate their CdA? [BikeTechReview] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry for the long delay in responding. For some reason I didn't get a notification.
In that paper I reported the SEE as Standard Deviation of the difference in the model and the actual power data (model error) divided by square root of the number of observations. SD/sqrt(n)
If I recall correctly (its been a long time) I asked my stats prof and went with his recommendation.
Cheers,
Jim


BikeTechReview wrote:
BikeTechReview wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
BikeTechReview wrote:
for the plot that Tom shared, what was the standard error of estimate


As clearly stated in the last sentence of the 1st paragraph on page 285, the SEE was 2.7 W.


As I read it, SEM is reported and not SEE as you claim. I hope the lead author can clarify.


Hi Jim/BioMcGeek,

Can you clarify this for me?
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Re: With everyone's obsession about aero, has anyone bothered to calculate their CdA? [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Bio_McGeek wrote:
Sorry for the long delay in responding. For some reason I didn't get a notification.

In that paper I reported the SEE as Standard Deviation of the difference in the model and the actual power data (model error) divided by square root of the number of observations. SD/sqrt(n)
If I recall correctly (its been a long time) I asked my stats prof and went with his recommendation.
Cheers,
Jim


BikeTechReview wrote:
BikeTechReview wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
BikeTechReview wrote:
for the plot that Tom shared, what was the standard error of estimate


As clearly stated in the last sentence of the 1st paragraph on page 285, the SEE was 2.7 W.


As I read it, SEM is reported and not SEE as you claim. I hope the lead author can clarify.



Hi Jim/BioMcGeek,

Can you clarify this for me?


Thanks for the response, Jim!

The formula you cite seems to be for standard error of the mean - and not SEE.

Excel reports standard error for the published plot to be closer to 17W than 2.7W.

Happy to share my raw data with the 6 (maybe 7!) folks still following this. haha! :D

cheers,
-k

=================
Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================
Last edited by: BikeTechReview: Sep 9, 14 18:23
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