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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I think Flos are perfectly safe. They are made in China though.

But hey, good old American engineering will never steer us wrong (GM, Ford, etc....).

Ian
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
The reason they are dangerous is because you don't have the research, development, and safety testing that Zipp does. You have no idea if those carbon clinchers can withstand the heat of braking. Sure, you may save a lot of money buying them but I wouldn't trust my life to them. Carbon clinchers should be left to the experts, not some company in China who copies them. How much is your life worth?

Last year, on a super fast decent, a brake track on my Reynolds carbon clintcher wheel melted. Don't know if Reynolds wheels are made in USA, but it looks like you are gambling with the name brand stuff too.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
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tkos wrote:
I think Flos are perfectly safe. They are made in China though.

But hey, good old American engineering will never steer us wrong (GM, Ford, etc....).

Flo wheels are also made using aluminum rim extrusions and a carbon fiber fairing - not at all the same as all-carbon clincher wheels, and not subject to the same concerns about braking heat causing an unsafe delamination of the wheel's load-bearing structure.

Less is more.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [JerseyBigfoot] [ In reply to ]
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JerseyBigfoot wrote:
It's immoral to support counterfeiting; it under cuts the efforts of companies that spend money on the less tangible, intellectual development these wheels; adhere to quality assurance standards and have liability for their product. If you don't value any of that, that's a personal decision but don't slap a set of stickers from another brand on a cheap set of wheels. Once again, why would you?

^ This.

And isn't it illegal? I've seen one company say it's illegal to buy such products.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, but there was a bit of chatter about all Chinese made products being crap and or dangerous. All of which is moot anyway, due to the actual question not being about this stuff anyway, but one mans desire to rant.

Ian
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [Nulli_Secundus] [ In reply to ]
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Nulli_Secundus wrote:
Do you know why they look so similar? Because they are the same.

FFWD wheels are manufactured from the same open mold that all the unbranded Chinese wheels are. FFWD sources their rims from Chinese manufacturers, then they build (read: install hubs and spokes on) the wheels in the Netherlands so they can claim being hand-built. So the link to the FFWD wheel you found is "counterfeit" only because it is not being sold by FFWD company, but in fact is the same exact wheel cast from the same mold and possibly even from the same Chinese manufacturer.

The bolded sentences contradict each other.

It is not the same exact wheel if it's being built in shop with FFWD parts in the Netherlands.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
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tkos wrote:
Yes, but there was a bit of chatter about all Chinese made products being crap and or dangerous. All of which is moot anyway, due to the actual question not being about this stuff anyway, but one mans desire to rant.
True.

My two cents: Regardless of where they are made, Flo and FFWD wheels (that are sold through Flo and FFWD) implicitly carry those companies' standards of quality and safety, their warranty, and their public perception. Genuine Zipp, Enve, and HED wheels do the same for their companies. With each, there is a commensurate price that we pay according to how valuable we think these companies' products are. Unbranded open-mold wheels are generally sold for less money because they don't have the same level of je ne sais quoi that you get with a name brand wheel. However, when a distributor of open-mold wheels or bike frames starts putting 3rd party decals on their product, then it's hard to argue they are not out to deceive someone in some way, presumably with the intent of making some money. That's fraud, and if you buy those products, you participate in perpetuating the fraud.

Less is more.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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In my limited research and lack of funds...i liked what I saw from the HED 5/7 combo...and that's the direction i will probably take.

But i was wondering if anyone has posted/documented an actual event (horror story) from a wreck caused by a no brand name carbon wheel failing?

my other concern with no name brand wheels is if they are going to help performance as much as a brand name wheel that has been wind tunnel tested?
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [mrtopher1980] [ In reply to ]
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On a side note, there are some Chinese manufacturers that do talk about brake surfaces. The most common feature I see is the mentioning of a basalt braking surface. Admittedly, I dont know if that's 100% pure marketing BS, but braking surfaces are being mentioned. Also, if we look at the feedback of some of these Chinese sellers, some have upwards of 99.5% positive feedback with 1000+ reviews. If their product was complete shit, we would likely find people leaving negative feedback.
Last edited by: SPL Tech: Aug 20, 14 20:28
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [Bull_Winkle] [ In reply to ]
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Yep i have seen a Zipp 404 taco at a road race this year. When i worked at a shop i did several warranties of Bontrager carbon wheels that had cracks and a couple of reynolds which had also developed some cracking/brake track melting. Funniest thing is that the Chinese carbon wheels tend to be some of the most bomb proof wheels i have seen. I have a pair that has around 2k road racing miles on it and you would never know, brake track is amazing.


Also people need to stop freaking out about the braking unless you live in some serious mountains. Get the basalt braking surface and a good pair of pads and you are fine. Also if your tube blows its not like it may not blow due to other reasons as well....such as a flat. Also is people would just ride tubulars there would be no issue (yes i know that in theory the glue could melt).
Last edited by: -Mike-: Aug 20, 14 21:24
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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How much for import duties, taxes, and other charges for buying chinese wheels?
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Here is what I want to see:

After all the discussion on how ZIPP test their wheels ect ect.

Why don't they buy a few sets of "Chinese carbon" and put them on their machine?
Will they pass the CEN? Are they scared......
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [duvivr6] [ In reply to ]
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Since we live in sue happy 'merica think about it this way. Assume Zipp and China wheels are identical in terms of safety and performance. A zipp product fails for a man and a China wheel fails for another. Guess which one is SOL and which one can get a nice settlement to pay the bills? Think of it as insurance costs. Everyone can make their own call, but it sure would suck to end up on the wrong side of that one.

I know everyone here isn't from usa, but you get the idea.
Last edited by: black_marlin: Feb 25, 15 4:37
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Re: Chinese Unbranded Carbon Wheels vs Fake Zipps? [duvivr6] [ In reply to ]
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duvivr6 wrote:
Here is what I want to see:

After all the discussion on how ZIPP test their wheels ect ect.

Why don't they buy a few sets of "Chinese carbon" and put them on their machine?
Will they pass the CEN? Are they scared......

It'd be a no-risk way to spread FUD about the no-name wheels: if they fail, use your immense marketing budget to crow about it. If they pass, keep quiet about it.

Edit: Although there'd be some risk: by crowing about how terrible the other wheels are, they'd also make people aware of those other wheels.


STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016
Last edited by: AHare: Feb 25, 15 5:51
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