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Dropping weights 4 weeks out from IM - thoughts on this?
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Hey all, have been doing weights 2x a week for months now and am currently 3.5 weeks out from IMlou (my A race, afterwards I'll be going into off-season/maintenance which will bring weights right back into the mix). My original plan was to drop the weights 2 weeks out from the race but due to schedule etc I've not been able to lift this week at all and am contemplating just dropping those two sessions now with 3.5 weeks to go. I'll replace that time with more time in the water.

Might be a little nit picky by even asking this question..I mean it's the difference between 4 weeks and 2 weeks. Anyhow, any thoughts on downsides here? I'll lose some strength, and a bit of mass (6'1 and 170lbs, during my first IM last year I was at 167lbs) obviously but anything else I'm missing here?

In my mind it would help with the swim as well as I've met with a swim coach and could use that time to focus on drills.

Thanks
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Re: Dropping weights 4 weeks out from IM - thoughts on this? [Skipjack] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt you lose any strength or mass in the 4 weeks total of not lifting. Also consider you were going to drop lifting with 2 weeks to go, so dropping lifting an additional 2 weeks out from your original drop target really only means a possible strength or mass loss in the additional 2 weeks of not lifting, and you simply won't lose any strength or mass because of an additional two weeks added to the zero weight lifting time. If you were to drop weight lifting for 6+ weeks, there would be a fraction of mass / strength loss. Ask yourself would the lifting you were scheduled to do in weeks 4 and 3 would help you improve for IMLou. It is unlikely. The lifting you have done for the last X months is now deep in your body and that will certainly help, but it is unlikely that the lifting you were to do in weeks 4 and 3 would have given you more strength in time for IMLou. Plus, you said you have swapped that lifting for additional swimming, and two more weeks in the pool could potentially help you with confidence which can translate directly to race day. I wouldn't be concerned at all.
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Re: Dropping weights 4 weeks out from IM - thoughts on this? [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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I would have mostly dropped them going into your final build so you could get the most out of your cycling and running. Maybe just kept core and maybe a single light weight high rep session per week.

But that's just me. I found strength training was great during my early base periods, but once I ramped up volume AND intensity, I'm running or cycling every 12 hours on average 6 days a week. No way I can stuff weight session in there unless I add a lot more time to drop some cycling to zone 1 like pros do.

I know there's other schools of though on this and I will admit that after I stopped lifting, my FTP (CP20) improvements leveled off. But I also got a little more aggressive on my position and upped my running training load at that same time, so no clear conclusion there.


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Re: Dropping weights 4 weeks out from IM - thoughts on this? [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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Howlandm wrote:
I doubt you lose any strength or mass in the 4 weeks total of not lifting. Also consider you were going to drop lifting with 2 weeks to go, so dropping lifting an additional 2 weeks out from your original drop target really only means a possible strength or mass loss in the additional 2 weeks of not lifting, and you simply won't lose any strength or mass because of an additional two weeks added to the zero weight lifting time. If you were to drop weight lifting for 6+ weeks, there would be a fraction of mass / strength loss. Ask yourself would the lifting you were scheduled to do in weeks 4 and 3 would help you improve for IMLou. It is unlikely. The lifting you have done for the last X months is now deep in your body and that will certainly help, but it is unlikely that the lifting you were to do in weeks 4 and 3 would have given you more strength in time for IMLou. Plus, you said you have swapped that lifting for additional swimming, and two more weeks in the pool could potentially help you with confidence which can translate directly to race day. I wouldn't be concerned at all.

Great points, and I agree. Thanks!
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Re: Dropping weights 4 weeks out from IM - thoughts on this? [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
I would have mostly dropped them going into your final build so you could get the most out of your cycling and running. Maybe just kept core and maybe a single light weight high rep session per week.

But that's just me. I found strength training was great during my early base periods, but once I ramped up volume AND intensity, I'm running or cycling every 12 hours on average 6 days a week. No way I can stuff weight session in there unless I add a lot more time to drop some cycling to zone 1 like pros do.

I know there's other schools of though on this and I will admit that after I stopped lifting, my FTP (CP20) improvements leveled off. But I also got a little more aggressive on my position and upped my running training load at that same time, so no clear conclusion there.

Hey Moto, I think you make some really good points. While I'm not every 12 hours run/bike and I am early am run or bike, then swim or weights at noon daily (so in the span of 4am-1pm training for 2-2:30 hours 4 days a week, then 3-5.5 hours bike/1 hour run, then 1.5-2.5 run with a swim often later that day). Heaviest training loud I've carried and I can feel it. I have no doubt that if I had cut weights out a bit earlier I could have gotten more quality out of those bike/runs. It just makes a lot of sense. I think one of my major lessons learned here in my 2nd year of long distance is not equating just feeling "beat up" to quality training (ie there are smarter ways to beat myself up). Enjoying the process though as I'm starting to document more and am progressively getting smarter about training.

I'm also newer to training with power, or "virtual power", so no way to measure FTP impact when it comes to weights. After you mention it however it's certainly a metric I'll track next year in my build up.

Appreciate the feedback.
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Re: Dropping weights 4 weeks out from IM - thoughts on this? [Skipjack] [ In reply to ]
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I'm still feeling out that balance between training more and recovery. I do a lot of zone 3 work cycling because I can recover from it. But I wonder if I'd be better of doing more zone 2 and zone 4 and very little zone 3 except specific medium distance rides (2 to 3-1/2 hours) workout. Today for example I did what I'm now calling a 2/4 ride. Mostly zone 2, but with 5' zone 4 efforts scattered throughout. Not too mentally intense, but relatively time effective, similar to a low zone 3 sustained ride.

That being said, we'll see how my 15mi run goes later this afternoon.... 11 hours later.

So many ways to skin a cat.

I think next season, I'll focus hard on swimming and drop my run and bike volume a little but increase the intensity and maintain some form of strength training and weight lifting throughout the season. I figure I at least want to look really good, if nothing else, in my 2nd and final "big season" before a triathlon "retirement" agreement and exit strategy I made with my wife last Fall when I signed up for IMWI.


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http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Dropping weights 4 weeks out from IM - thoughts on this? [Skipjack] [ In reply to ]
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If you insisted on lifting I would have still had you drop them completely 8-10 weeks out and focus on incorporating functional strength work into the build.
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Re: Dropping weights 4 weeks out from IM - thoughts on this? [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
I'm still feeling out that balance between training more and recovery. I do a lot of zone 3 work cycling because I can recover from it. But I wonder if I'd be better of doing more zone 2 and zone 4 and very little zone 3 except specific medium distance rides (2 to 3-1/2 hours) workout. Today for example I did what I'm now calling a 2/4 ride. Mostly zone 2, but with 5' zone 4 efforts scattered throughout. Not too mentally intense, but relatively time effective, similar to a low zone 3 sustained ride.

That being said, we'll see how my 15mi run goes later this afternoon.... 11 hours later.

So many ways to skin a cat.

I think next season, I'll focus hard on swimming and drop my run and bike volume a little but increase the intensity and maintain some form of strength training and weight lifting throughout the season. I figure I at least want to look really good, if nothing else, in my 2nd and final "big season" before a triathlon "retirement" agreement and exit strategy I made with my wife last Fall when I signed up for IMWI.

Moto - here's a random but somewhat related question but when you say Z3 on the bike training are you referring to power zones, or HR zones?

Now let me bring this back to topic..

I've been thinking towards crafting my next training schedule similiar to your current one (ie good deal of higher intensity), the weights are still up in the air in regards to duration but I have been edging into your 2/4 ride territory on medium rides. Crediting Trainerroad for this more than my self as most of the 3 hour-ish rides I do I select based on the TSS, which puts me into many..many..many more intervals/higher intensities than I would have been in had I stuck to my last years 3 hour purely z2 rides (first season of long distance, and pretty much a crap shoot on training). Anyhow I plan on continuing that path but I'm not sure if I feel this level of improvement based on actually having power numbers to base this off of, or if it's impact is truly that great. If I didnt have a long/hard ass bike session and run coming up this weekend couples with the race in 3 weeks I'd be measuring my FTP right now to see.
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