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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
i dont think roth is a full 42.2km course. not from what i saw in the past. i take any time coming from there with a grain of salt as everyone is much faster there than they can be on normal courses.

Melbourne is a point to point downhill run...once again....every year...tons of sub 2:50 and many sub 3h.

i do not know if whistler was a full course either. My biggest impression come from the fact that Jeff outran Marino by 11 minutes. It was definitely a world class run and he as a promising future. we will see more of him in a near future

to my knowledge, this was one of the best run performance i ever seen from a athlete placing on the podium.

I've done Melbourne twice and I'm not sure how starting from T2 at sea level and then ending up in St Kilda at sea level makes it a down hill course????
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [toolbox] [ In reply to ]
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i standed corrected! i was told by athletes that it was a net negative elevation course point to point.
i looked at the past results from 2012 till now in melbourne and only 2012 seems like a outsider.

there was 6 runners under 2:45. Crowie with 2:38. Overall, the time seems a little quick but perhaps it was the simple fact that many world class athlete race together? good weather?

i m not sure i the course changed at all in 2013-14 but time were definitly much slower and realistic.

anyway....important to check all data. it s very difficult to compare races with course innaccuracy.... looking forward to see Jeff race kona as at least...kona as consistency and is a good reference in our sport!

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
jonnyo wrote:
I see so many files and never one with the right distance for Roth. Not sure what to think of your 43km;)

The imc course is different from last year. I would like to see files from this year but douth gps would be reliable in the forest??? Not sure


Normal course is 42.195 with no negative or positive elevation total. Imc penticton was one of them, for many years certified also...


From the other thread, last year I started a thread wondering if the old course was short as we had a few athletes who were a couple minutes faster. Long story short I think most people said that with all the turns and GPS issues the course last year was "close" this year I have only one data point which makes it a bit longer than last year by .6km.

In terms of Trev Wurtele being 8 min faster (bike), than last year. I have no idea….my only opinion is that he is a better biker or he rode harder on the day, personally I can't say it was easier

from an AG perspective last year was easy with lots of fast people (cool weather) and 500 more athletes. I was about 48'th going into Pemberton and was passed by 70 in the "packs" the whole time going 38KPH or so.

This year I was all alone, in Pemberton only being passed by 1 guy every 5-10 of minutes. Honestly there was minimal drafting, I did not see anyone working together at my speed (around 5:35 bike)

This year was either very hard or very low competition, or a bit of both…..for me after 20 IM it was the hardest for sure since '98 at IMC (Bustos only guy under 9 hours)

But Jeff's run I agree 100% epic performance, see the photo from "photo guy" that was the pain face I was talking about ;-0 just right by where he passed me (of course 1 loop ahead)

…..the best thing…no watch, all heart (lungs, legs etc)

Maurice


Maurice, first of all, congrats on number 20 and for briefly keeping me company. I said the same to my wife. That was the hardest IM I did outside of Nice 2010. I actually sat on a low power number too than any previous IM. i have a very decent aero tuck (sit on the top tube) and get a lot out of my zero watts coasting and Whistler provides many breaks, so it was not hard caused i overbiked. I think it was the run. One of the guys who i met from Germany had Garmin reporting that the total run elevation was 600m. i tend to believe it. it felt like that. You were always on an up or down. I think this hurts the lower Vdot age grouper more than the pro athlete.


LOL, thats funny. I don't know if you remember but you passed me on the last downhill before Whistler, I was in aero going pretty fast and you passed me like I was standing still……I remember thinking "who the f@#k is that guy??"

That is one very bad ass Tony Martin tuck!

I think for the run, we were just lucky with the heat, In Kamloops we had a pretty bad heat wave for the key training 2-3 weeks out. Brutal workouts but in the end I think it helped us quite a bit.

Maurice
Last edited by: mauricemaher: Jul 30, 14 8:34
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
PeteDin206 wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
I have roughly 1133m for Roth and 1137m for Whistler?

There seems to be a misconception that Roth is flat.




1100m is flat.

The old IMCis about 4300 feet or 1300m.

The new one in Whistler is about 1800m-2000m depending on which file you look at.

Maurice


Whistler is closer to 2050m, Roth is about half that. I would kill for a course like Roth given the fact that I'm 190lbs. I was blowing by people on the downhills at Whistler (Top speed of 51 and I wasn't even pedaling at that point). On the flip side there were also plenty of periods where I was in the 6-9mph range going up long hills.


I have files from 2 camps last year and 1 this year, plus both races and they range from 1800-2366m so I would say 2050m or about 6600 feet is close, or somewhere right in the middle/average.

Very tough course especially on that day, which makes both Jeff's run and MV's 4:31 bike pretty special. Great RR BTW.

Maurice

Maurice. My Garmin 510 ticked over 2200m just before the Green Lake appearance on the climb back from Pemberton. I have a zillion files with Tremblant at 2000m (give or take) and Lake Placid at 1900m. Whistler beats up the legs more because the climbs are concentrated and steep. At Tremblant other than the final 8k of which only 3k are truly steep, the rest comes on gradual grades which generally means less crank torque at target watts and it also means you lose less time pushing a wall of wind at 80 kph. Much better to re use your acquired potential energy at 50 kph on gradual declines than 80 kph. One thing good about Whistler is that you literally only need to touch the brakes 5 times...once at each turn around, once turning left froom Callaghan and once on the S turn after the first climb out of Pemberton and once coming back into Whistler. Unlike a course like IM France where you lose a ton of energy too braking coming into switchbacks.

Anyway, coming back to the run course topic, does anyone else have a GPS file showing 600m of vertical on the run?
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry yes only one run file but at 549m, so close to 600m.

When we did one loop in training (maybe not the exact course) we got really variable numbers due to clouds etc and left/started from the Aspens so not exact but 21km mostly on course.

Around 180 to 223 meters, but with all the twists/turns etc I would say over 500m for sure for 2 loops.

Maurice
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I had 1,759 ft. Pretty close.
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
I have roughly 1133m for Roth and 1137m for Whistler?

There seems to be a misconception that Roth is flat.

My Garmin has 6,700+ ft for Whistler so Roth isn't even close.

One of my regular 50 mi rides has about 1200m of climbing. The same amount over 180 km may not be "flat" but it's pretty close.
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [cjbruin] [ In reply to ]
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cjbruin wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
I have roughly 1133m for Roth and 1137m for Whistler?

There seems to be a misconception that Roth is flat.


My Garmin has 6,700+ ft for Whistler so Roth isn't even close.

One of my regular 50 mi rides has about 1200m of climbing. The same amount over 180 km may not be "flat" but it's pretty close.

I am getting huge variances from different sources in the total elevation for the Whistler course. Personal GPS units... maybe not so accurate...

Not really relevant my point though. Just the OP's definition of "legit", since almost all iron courses are notorious for mis-measurement and not being certified.
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Rhys for starting this thread and thanks to everyone for the kind words! Especially the ones that were unintentionally kind (Was the course short?). Also thanks to Marino for coming out to Canada to race with us and congrats to him for crushing it! It was awesome to have him out there demolishing the rest us and showing us where we need to get to. I'll be telling the kids I coach back home that I got to race against one of the all time greats of our sport!

My coach and I made a plan to ride the bike conservative to ensure that I would be able to A. Ride strong on the final climb out of Pemberton and B. take advantage of my run strength. My thinking was that the large amount of downhill tucking sections weren't a reason to push harder but just a bonus for saving energy. I still felt pretty beat up in the last bit of the bike and start of the run but just rolled with it and started gaining momentum.

Now had I rode faster and run faster could I have had a faster overall time. Maybe and this is something to consider for next time. But no matter how I raced on Sunday, Marino still would have crushed me. He had 4 of a Kind and I had a Flush. So I think our plan worked well. For me a fast run split is just a way to get to the finish line as fast as possible. I would trade a fast run split for a faster overall time anytime. We'll as long as that got me a better placing. (On a side note I think Trevor had a Full House and will be back on top of the Podium at IM Lake Tahoe) What has me stoked from the race is that I was able to overcome the injuries that plagued me all winter and fall from crashing and then running a marathon at Challenge Penticon, get over some awful early season races (4:56 in Galveston 70.3), finish 2nd in a big race behind a legend of our sport, gain some great Ironman experience, and take a step forward in my development as an athlete.

I am still figuring this Ironman (or Iron-Distance for the folks back home in Penticton) out. I seems to me like the mental battle is just as important as the physical one. I think there was a huge benefit for me feeling good on run and getting splits that I was catching everyone. The positive energy kept feeding itself. I fed this energy with a lot of yelling, cheering other people and saying jokes out there. Turning my focus from internal to external seemed to really help. I also know it can be psychologically tough to be feeling a bit rough, hanging on, and hearing split that someone is gaining ground quickly. So even if from a physiological point of view I may have been better to have gone harder on the bike, I am not sure in this race it would have got me to the finish line faster or in 2nd place. It very well could have had me walking and thinking about how I need to brush up my resume and get a real job...

I had the benefit over Marino of being a local BC guy. The volunteers and people cheering out there were incredible! The coolest part was having a ton of my role models in the sport out cheering me on! Jonnyo, Scott Curry, Jasper Blake, Jason Shortis, Kevin Cutjar are all guys that I looked up and cheered on during the Penticton IMC days and to have them out there cheering and giving split was incredible. And to have Simon Whitfield yell my motto "Get Ugly Out There!!!" at me about a 1k into the run sure got me fired up and is a moment I will always remember! Marino may have had some support out there, but I can imagine it being as motivating and awesome as what I was lucky to have received!

The other benefits I had over Marino is that I sat on his feet for the last lap of the swim. Everyone mentions how much a hard bike affects your run but I believe the swim play a big effect as well. Especially if you have one of those swim where you kill it to try and stay with the front pack and get popped 600-700 meters in, struggle in no man's land and then get caught by the second group as soon as you hit the beach/boat ramp (This has happened to me at a lot of 70.3's).

The hardest part of racing is not being able to do something, but to actually do it under pressure. That's what makes the races and runs in Kona so special. So until I throw down a big one in Kona I shouldn't even be in the discussion of great runners. Plus I don't want too much hype or recognition because I thrive off being the underdog. So if you think I am not very good please post it on here. Like everyone whose strength is the run, I want people to forget I even exist.... until we hit T2.

I would be more than happy to answer any questions people might have about my training or preparation. I am still a work in progress but have been fortunate to have lots of great mentors and bad races to learn from! I would be more than thrilled to pass that learning on.

Website - Follow Me On Strava - Follow Me On Instagram
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Not only that, on twisting courses, GPS doesn't track well either.
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [Symonds] [ In reply to ]
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Symonds wrote:
Thanks Rhys for starting this thread and thanks to everyone for the kind words! Especially the ones that were unintentionally kind (Was the course short?). Also thanks to Marino for coming out to Canada to race with us and congrats to him for crushing it! It was awesome to have him out there demolishing the rest us and showing us where we need to get to. I'll be telling the kids I coach back home that I got to race against one of the all time greats of our sport!

My coach and I made a plan to ride the bike conservative to ensure that I would be able to A. Ride strong on the final climb out of Pemberton and B. take advantage of my run strength. My thinking was that the large amount of downhill tucking sections weren't a reason to push harder but just a bonus for saving energy. I still felt pretty beat up in the last bit of the bike and start of the run but just rolled with it and started gaining momentum.

Now had I rode faster and run faster could I have had a faster overall time. Maybe and this is something to consider for next time. But no matter how I raced on Sunday, Marino still would have crushed me. He had 4 of a Kind and I had a Flush. So I think our plan worked well. For me a fast run split is just a way to get to the finish line as fast as possible. I would trade a fast run split for a faster overall time anytime. We'll as long as that got me a better placing. (On a side note I think Trevor had a Full House and will be back on top of the Podium at IM Lake Tahoe) What has me stoked from the race is that I was able to overcome the injuries that plagued me all winter and fall from crashing and then running a marathon at Challenge Penticon, get over some awful early season races (4:56 in Galveston 70.3), finish 2nd in a big race behind a legend of our sport, gain some great Ironman experience, and take a step forward in my development as an athlete.

I am still figuring this Ironman (or Iron-Distance for the folks back home in Penticton) out. I seems to me like the mental battle is just as important as the physical one. I think there was a huge benefit for me feeling good on run and getting splits that I was catching everyone. The positive energy kept feeding itself. I fed this energy with a lot of yelling, cheering other people and saying jokes out there. Turning my focus from internal to external seemed to really help. I also know it can be psychologically tough to be feeling a bit rough, hanging on, and hearing split that someone is gaining ground quickly. So even if from a physiological point of view I may have been better to have gone harder on the bike, I am not sure in this race it would have got me to the finish line faster or in 2nd place. It very well could have had me walking and thinking about how I need to brush up my resume and get a real job...

I had the benefit over Marino of being a local BC guy. The volunteers and people cheering out there were incredible! The coolest part was having a ton of my role models in the sport out cheering me on! Jonnyo, Scott Curry, Jasper Blake, Jason Shortis, Kevin Cutjar are all guys that I looked up and cheered on during the Penticton IMC days and to have them out there cheering and giving split was incredible. And to have Simon Whitfield yell my motto "Get Ugly Out There!!!" at me about a 1k into the run sure got me fired up and is a moment I will always remember! Marino may have had some support out there, but I can imagine it being as motivating and awesome as what I was lucky to have received!

The other benefits I had over Marino is that I sat on his feet for the last lap of the swim. Everyone mentions how much a hard bike affects your run but I believe the swim play a big effect as well. Especially if you have one of those swim where you kill it to try and stay with the front pack and get popped 600-700 meters in, struggle in no man's land and then get caught by the second group as soon as you hit the beach/boat ramp (This has happened to me at a lot of 70.3's).

The hardest part of racing is not being able to do something, but to actually do it under pressure. That's what makes the races and runs in Kona so special. So until I throw down a big one in Kona I shouldn't even be in the discussion of great runners. Plus I don't want too much hype or recognition because I thrive off being the underdog. So if you think I am not very good please post it on here. Like everyone whose strength is the run, I want people to forget I even exist.... until we hit T2.

I would be more than happy to answer any questions people might have about my training or preparation. I am still a work in progress but have been fortunate to have lots of great mentors and bad races to learn from! I would be more than thrilled to pass that learning on.

nice Jeff. Well said. I'll ask some training questions over a java when you're back in town! Till then rest up, and get ready for the next one!! Great work out there. Inspiring to watch it!

@rhyspencer
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
GPS doesn't do elevation very well.

Whatever. There's no way that The climbing at Roth is anywhere near Whistler.
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [Symonds] [ In reply to ]
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Class act, Jeff. Thanks for keeping it real. Incredible race out there last weekend.
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [Symonds] [ In reply to ]
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"I am still figuring this Ironman (or Iron-Distance for the folks back home in Penticton) out" and you do a 8'25' with a 2'40' marathon. You are awesome man and I am proud to be a fellow Canadian. Oh...and yes, you suck! ;)

________________
Adrian in Vancouver
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [cjbruin] [ In reply to ]
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cjbruin wrote:
jackmott wrote:
GPS doesn't do elevation very well.


Whatever. There's no way that The climbing at Roth is anywhere near Whistler.

I stand corrected on that. It was based on mapmyride which also does elevation poorly.
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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I rode the bike course on Saturday. It is no joke.
Last edited by: JoshR: Jul 30, 14 13:57
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Jonnyo. Course was the same but a great field in 2012. Crowie and Cam Brown ran their arses off and probably dragged a few pros with them. 2013 Had a shortened swim course due to crazy weather.
Not to take the thread away from Jeff though as it sounds like he had a great day at the office. Well done
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [Symonds] [ In reply to ]
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Nice job there Jeff, you only have one piece left to the ironman puzzle, and it is the easiest one, riding faster. Having a great run is nice, but you have to swim with the leaders first, and you seem to be just about there. I would say nutrition is 2nd most important, and you obviously have something working in that area. It will be a delicate balancing act from here on out as to how hard you can actually ride and still have most your run left. In the really big races you will have to choose to gamble on those 25 guys out front, or try and run them down from 2nd bike pack. 15 to 20 minutes is a lot to ask of yourself at the moment on the bike, but sometimes you just never know til you try.

Can you share with us your plan for hawaii? Do you want as high a place as possible, or you gonna shoot for the podium? Two entirely different strategies for sure, guess if you don't want to tell us, we will have to wait for hour 3 of the race to see what you are up to…(-;

And you can forget about being under the radar, what do you think this site is, beginner triathlete . com?? A 1/2 million people are going to know about you before hawaii arrives, Herbert is probably calling you right now!!!
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [monty] [ In reply to ]
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His plan? You mean spectating? Unless what I'm looking at is wrong he's at like 89 in the rankings? Am I looking at old numbers here?
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [tucktri] [ In reply to ]
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Hell i don't know, maybe he is going to do one last ironman, what does the winner get in points? So maybe for next year? Guess we will have a lot more data to speculate on by then too!!
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [monty] [ In reply to ]
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'kill for a course like roth' Maybe in terms of road conditions (no cracks or potholes anywhere) but this course is NOT easy/fast. There are switchbacks on the downhill where you cant make up time on the uphills. Reason for fast times is the stacked field of competitors.
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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no...roth is FAST plain and simple. Quality field...for sure... great athletes.... but most of my friend heading there will PB by 20-30minutes. it s crazy fast....

there is a reason that all the fast performance come from roth and austria over the years.... same can be said of florida. IT S FAST. (ironman is never easy..)

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Jeff Symonds runs 2:40:38 at Whistler [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
no...roth is FAST plain and simple. Quality field...for sure... great athletes.... but most of my friend heading there will PB by 20-30minutes. it s crazy fast....

there is a reason that all the fast performance come from roth and austria over the years.... same can be said of florida. IT S FAST. (ironman is never easy..)

sigh, agree to disagree. I was there. If mirinda has kona record, she should have smashed chrissie's record since its fast right? florida has no hills.
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