Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devrock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If they delay it for 2 hours because the weather is that bad then they would have to find a place of shelter for all athletes, spectators, and volunteers at the start as well as for the on-course volunteers. If they don't do that then people would bitch that there was a delay, but no plans to shelter everyone from the rain. Then people would bitch that during the shelter period, there weren't enough water/food for the athletes waiting out the storm. Then they would bitch that they didn't get any time to warm up or re-check their transition to make sure everything is in order in case the rain/wind blew stuff away. Then they would bitch that they didn't get their full 17 hours. WTC could then say because of the long delay and the time it would take to get all support/safety staff in their proper position, it would be a dual instead and then people would bitch about not being able to swim .... and so on

WTC is damn if they do, they are damn if they don't.

devrock wrote:
lhpoulin wrote:
How do you evacuate 140.6 miles of race course?


No one is talking about evacuating the entire course, necessarily. (In fact, it's a lot shorter that that since every leg is two loops.) Regardless, you do what you can if the weather is dangerous. The point many of us is arguing is that the race should have been delayed by two hours so you wouldn't have to evacuate anyone.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devrock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am one of the ones who got "short coursed" on the swim. I started at the back end of the 1:10-1:20 group. I am not a good swimmer and its not because I dont want to be or that I dont train I just am slow. I swim 3-4 times a week Ive taken lessons, masters swims even TI way back. Nothing seems to help me. But I can bike and run my way up the field. Its just what I do. I am very upset over the whole thing. After the lightning supposedly hit the beach as we were told in the water I almost kept swimming thinking well even if it did its not like its just going to happen again. I kept swimming for a little bit but then all the kayakers were sideways in front of me and everyone was swimming to shore. It was about then I looked up and saw a huge streak of lightning in front of me. I was so close too but... At that point it got dangerous and I was essentially forced to swim to shore. Funny enough my garmin read 2.4 when I got out as as someone had said just about 3 miles when I hit T1. At that point it was a complete panic and no one knew what was going on. We were sent in to change and get out on the bikes. So I raced just like I would have any other day. At some point on the bike I was told they might cancel the second loop of the swim. It was a freezing terrifiying first loop on the bike down that hill. I held those brakes for dear life knowing I could not stop if my life depended on it. I finally warmed up somewhere on the first out and back and then it was business as usual. I biked a 6:02 and the run went ok but my stomach was a bit of a mess. I think it was something to do with shivering so much and using up so much energy to get warm and then trying to get in the nutrition off schedule. I ended the run with a 3:55. With my full time I was looking at 5th in the ag and with the one loop swim 4th. Either way no kona slots for f45-49 that far down. But I ended up with nothing. I guess now Im not even sure my finish counts. BTW it was or would be IM #14 and one was Kona. Its left me feeling very disappointed and discouraged. Its a terrible feeling. As Im told I guess if you race enough times things are bound to happen. I do know that it was dangerous and I honestly cant believe they didnt stop everyone before the second lap of the swim and just cancel it. That storm did not just pop out of no where. Its pretty clear it was on radar and people knew it was coming.
I am pretty upset at how it was handled because its so clearly obvious they were making up things as they went along with no clear cut rules. I didnt even know when I went to the awards if I was on the podium or not and there was nothing posted. Im not sure what I think about how it could have been handled better. I have asked myself would I have finished if I knew I was unofficial. And would I have wrecked myself like I did trying to have a great race despite the whole mess. Maybe I would have saved myself and jumped in another race later. I just dont know.
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [Trailqueen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trailqueen wrote:
I am one of the ones who got "short coursed" on the swim. I started at the back end of the 1:10-1:20 group. I am not a good swimmer and its not because I dont want to be or that I dont train I just am slow. I swim 3-4 times a week Ive taken lessons, masters swims even TI way back. Nothing seems to help me. But I can bike and run my way up the field. Its just what I do. I am very upset over the whole thing. After the lightning supposedly hit the beach as we were told in the water I almost kept swimming thinking well even if it did its not like its just going to happen again. I kept swimming for a little bit but then all the kayakers were sideways in front of me and everyone was swimming to shore. It was about then I looked up and saw a huge streak of lightning in front of me. I was so close too but... At that point it got dangerous and I was essentially forced to swim to shore. Funny enough my garmin read 2.4 when I got out as as someone had said just about 3 miles when I hit T1. At that point it was a complete panic and no one knew what was going on. We were sent in to change and get out on the bikes. So I raced just like I would have any other day. At some point on the bike I was told they might cancel the second loop of the swim. It was a freezing terrifiying first loop on the bike down that hill. I held those brakes for dear life knowing I could not stop if my life depended on it. I finally warmed up somewhere on the first out and back and then it was business as usual. I biked a 6:02 and the run went ok but my stomach was a bit of a mess. I think it was something to do with shivering so much and using up so much energy to get warm and then trying to get in the nutrition off schedule. I ended the run with a 3:55. With my full time I was looking at 5th in the ag and with the one loop swim 4th. Either way no kona slots for f45-49 that far down. But I ended up with nothing. I guess now Im not even sure my finish counts. BTW it was or would be IM #14 and one was Kona. Its left me feeling very disappointed and discouraged. Its a terrible feeling. As Im told I guess if you race enough times things are bound to happen. I do know that it was dangerous and I honestly cant believe they didnt stop everyone before the second lap of the swim and just cancel it. That storm did not just pop out of no where. Its pretty clear it was on radar and people knew it was coming.
I am pretty upset at how it was handled because its so clearly obvious they were making up things as they went along with no clear cut rules. I didnt even know when I went to the awards if I was on the podium or not and there was nothing posted. Im not sure what I think about how it could have been handled better. I have asked myself would I have finished if I knew I was unofficial. And would I have wrecked myself like I did trying to have a great race despite the whole mess. Maybe I would have saved myself and jumped in another race later. I just dont know.

I ended up meeting some local firemen at a restaurant on Monday and they told me that they knew the storm was coming early Sunday morning and they called WTC to find out what they planned to do about the situation. Apparently WTC didn't have a plan, as they didn't communicate anything to local authorities and didn't make any race adjustments prior to the start. It's unfortunate that there was no communication to athletes, volunteers or emergency staff to prepare anyone for a potential change in plans.

As far as the debate goes regarding if those pulled from the water completed an Ironman, I believe they did. Those redirected to the boat house or other locations followed the course as directed during the race. They didn't intentionally cut the course, they followed the instructions of the race officials. If an emergency happened during the bike or run and you were redirected around the situation, you would still be an Ironman when you crossed the finish line. If race officials tell you that you're still racing, then you're still racing.

There have been many posts saying that shortening the swim is a non-issue since the AG contenders were out of the water by the time the storm came, but clearly that's not true since you appear to be someone going for a Kona slot. You seeded yourself appropriately based on your anticipated finish time and unfortunately the circumstances didn't allow you to complete the swim. It's a bummer that the results have made you feel bad... not exactly sure how to rectify that. I think those who were "short coursed" need to feel good that they made the safe/smart decision to follow the direction of the race officials.
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [Mr. October] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Mr. October wrote:
devrock wrote:
Mr. October wrote:
devrock wrote:
lhpoulin wrote:
How do you evacuate 140.6 miles of race course?


No one is talking about evacuating the entire course, necessarily. (In fact, it's a lot shorter that that since every leg is two loops.) Regardless, you do what you can if the weather is dangerous. The point many of us is arguing is that the race should have been delayed by two hours so you wouldn't have to evacuate anyone.


The afternoon storm was as bad or worse than the morning storm with as many or more dangerous lightning strikes.


Pete, where? I was in town all day and other than a few downpours, there were no more t-storms.


Between Wilmington and Lake Placid. I guess I got off the bike around 3:30 or so? I hit a really severe storm maybe 4 or 5 miles out of town on the second loop. Driving rain, wind, and really nasty lightning. It was really the only time I was scared all day.

Yep this is where it hit - last 15 miles for me on the way back in - I was scared on many other occasions though.

On the whole real results thing - I think they could go through 1 by 1 and work it out. For example I swam a 41 first loop then a 43 second loop. The time difference is typical and the times are consistent with 2 other Races this year - I think they could 'validate' whether people did or didn't finish the second loop easily.

I appreciate the results need be consistent and for MOPs like me it is only really ourselves we are racing but where I like the overall time on my finisher certificate I know it isn't true.
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [TriAndTriAgain] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriAndTriAgain wrote:

I ended up meeting some local firemen at a restaurant on Monday and they told me that they knew the storm was coming early Sunday morning and they called WTC to find out what they planned to do about the situation. Apparently WTC didn't have a plan, as they didn't communicate anything to local authorities and didn't make any race adjustments prior to the start. It's unfortunate that there was no communication to athletes, volunteers or emergency staff to prepare anyone for a potential change in plans.

See, that's what burns me. To me, that's inexcusable and unprofessional. Especially at this level and for an organization this old and experienced. I've already fired off my long letter to a team member at WTC, which echoes my post earlier. I also CCd my volunteer organizer and I know she's very unhappy with how WTC handled it as well.

Again, let's just hope they learn a big lesson from this and make some wholesale changes.
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [TriAndTriAgain] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just can't believe that they took a risk like that but I guess it shouldn't surprise me. Ive done enough of their races now to see things that I can shake my head about and I over look them. I was in Syracuse the year they had the thunder storm. I think it was last year. I finished but there were a bunch of people still out running. They just tore everything down and ended the race in the middle of the storm. Im not sure what the answer is for the weather other than that there should be one rule and that is it. There can be no arguing or complaining then. The ITU seems a lot more organized than that. For example just read their cold water rules. Its clear cut it is what it is and thats it. Im no race director but I race a lot and it just seems to make sense.
Anyway Im sure I will eventually get over this but for now it stings a lot!!
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devrock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for all of this information about the sequence of events, and letting those of us who were not there understand what happened a bit better. My takeaways:
1. Everyone in a position to do something about safety either knew or damn sure should have known this was coming, hours before hand.
2. WTC had no real plan for dealing with a highly foreseeable weather contingency.
3. I haven't seen anyone yet mention (maybe I missed it) the fact that there's an arena that can hold several thousand people right next door to the transition area that would have been 1000x safer than a lake with a thunderstorm rolling through.
4. This being ST and the event being an Ironman, there will be much more hand-wringing about "did I really finish an IM?" or "the better swimmers got ripped off in the KQ process" than the fact that everyone was really, really lucky no one was killed or severely injured in all of this.

I'm just glad everyone got through the day in one piece (except perhaps TheRealStarky's bogus check).
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [ElGordo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ElGordo wrote:
Thanks for all of this information about the sequence of events, and letting those of us who were not there understand what happened a bit better. My takeaways:
1. Everyone in a position to do something about safety either knew or damn sure should have known this was coming, hours before hand.
2. WTC had no real plan for dealing with a highly foreseeable weather contingency.
3. I haven't seen anyone yet mention (maybe I missed it) the fact that there's an arena that can hold several thousand people right next door to the transition area that would have been 1000x safer than a lake with a thunderstorm rolling through.
4. This being ST and the event being an Ironman, there will be much more hand-wringing about "did I really finish an IM?" or "the better swimmers got ripped off in the KQ process" than the fact that everyone was really, really lucky no one was killed or severely injured in all of this.

I'm just glad everyone got through the day in one piece (except perhaps TheRealStarky's bogus check).

As I've told my friends who didn't get to finish the swim, they raced the race fair and square as set forth by conditions. They probably swam almost as far as everyone hitting the finish and then had as much a mile (or more) run to transition. This was as hard, or harder than the relatively easy task of swimming down the lake. One thing about triathlon or any outdoor sport is that you can't control the weather so come race day it is what it is. All those that finished Sunday deserve the title of Ironman.

As I've said earlier, the event should have been cancelled with the first lightning bolt. (Or before). 2700 athletes and God only knows how many internet experts would have screamed bloody murder but there is no title or finishers medal anywhere worth someone getting killed during an electrical storm which is a VERY real possibility. Thank goodness that didn't happen.


Pete Githens
Reading, PA
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [Mr. October] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah because cancelling an event with 2,500+ athletes at the start line would realistically happen.


Elisha
"Triathlon doesn't build character. It reveals it."
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [f_ahsile04] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I ran the race.

I made the 2 laps, in the swim, and didn't know until the end that the swim was shortened for others.

I hit the first storm while on the bike, could barely see in the downpour down the Keene descent, and my brakes on carbon wheels were only partially effective. For me, the first lap, the Keene descent, and some close lightning strikes were the scariest portion of the day.

As Iron-folk, our culture has a uniquely difficult time with the situation that presented itself at Lake Placid. I am a mid-pack Ironman, and this was my 7th race. I knew it was not going to be a great race for me due to weather, and also some other personal and professional circumstances which occured in the weeks prior to the race. Nonetheless, I have to admit, the logical, and most courageous decision I could have made would have been to call the situation unsafe, and pull out of the race.

I didn't have the guts to do that. Continuing to the finish line was, for me, the easier decision. It was almost certainly not the better decision. "Fight, finish!" heard on the Kona broadcasts, and the stories of those whose races went to hell but still persevered to the finish line have affected many of us who habitually do this, myself included. The thought of quitting is so distasteful to me, that I risked injury, hydroplaning and half-blind as I flew down that descent, and a rare but real chance of getting struck by lightning. Somehow, the finish line was more compelling to my psyche than the risk I was taking...?????

Looking back, it was not a smart decision. But it was logical when I look at the cost of the race, the cost of travel, the personal cost of the time and resources spent training, and the psychological cost of explaining to family and friends (and myself) why the race was a "DNF". I am generalizing, and don't speak for anyone but myself, but sometimes my cultural bias against quitting is a great thing. Sometimes it is not. I am still chewing on the decisions I made at Lake Placid. Maybe it is easy to say this since I got to the finish line without injuring myself, but I think the gutsy decision would have been to do what we are culturally conditioned to never do.........quit.

-Michael Myette
Racing for RocklinEnduranceSports Racing Team
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [mmyette] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mmyette wrote:
I ran the race.

I made the 2 laps, in the swim, and didn't know until the end that the swim was shortened for others.

I hit the first storm while on the bike, could barely see in the downpour down the Keene descent, and my brakes on carbon wheels were only partially effective. For me, the first lap, the Keene descent, and some close lightning strikes were the scariest portion of the day.

As Iron-folk, our culture has a uniquely difficult time with the situation that presented itself at Lake Placid. I am a mid-pack Ironman, and this was my 7th race. I knew it was not going to be a great race for me due to weather, and also some other personal and professional circumstances which occured in the weeks prior to the race. Nonetheless, I have to admit, the logical, and most courageous decision I could have made would have been to call the situation unsafe, and pull out of the race.

I didn't have the guts to do that. Continuing to the finish line was, for me, the easier decision. It was almost certainly not the better decision. "Fight, finish!" heard on the Kona broadcasts, and the stories of those whose races went to hell but still persevered to the finish line have affected many of us who habitually do this, myself included. The thought of quitting is so distasteful to me, that I risked injury, hydroplaning and half-blind as I flew down that descent, and a rare but real chance of getting struck by lightning. Somehow, the finish line was more compelling to my psyche than the risk I was taking...?????

Looking back, it was not a smart decision. But it was logical when I look at the cost of the race, the cost of travel, the personal cost of the time and resources spent training, and the psychological cost of explaining to family and friends (and myself) why the race was a "DNF". I am generalizing, and don't speak for anyone but myself, but sometimes my cultural bias against quitting is a great thing. Sometimes it is not. I am still chewing on the decisions I made at Lake Placid. Maybe it is easy to say this since I got to the finish line without injuring myself, but I think the gutsy decision would have been to do what we are culturally conditioned to never do.........quit.

The risk of getting struck by lightening certainly on a bike insulated from the ground by that rubber is stupidly low. There are shorter electrical paths to the ground with much less impedence than going through you, your bike and the rubber. Your chances of getting a heart attack or cancer on the day of the race were monumentally higher, but when it comes to lightening and the risk of an airplane crashing as a society, we have an irrational reaction out of proportion to the stats. Sure, if the stats converge, then you die, but the chances of those stats converging are really really low.

I'll go so far to say that if you are a semi competent rider, going down Keene in the rain should be no problem. There are no hard turns for your rubber to lose traction. Just a bit of leaning and counter steering with a solid contact patch. I've done Keene somethings like 75 times in my life in every condition between training and 22 times in racing (including the 2003 and 2008 deluges in LP). It's not that bad. You likely made the correct decision to press on and finish. Risk of something bad happening was low. Here is your proof. How many people got struck by lightening during the race? Answer = zero. How many people hit the deck on Keene ? Probably a few, but out of 2500, that's 1/1000 chance. If you descend semi cautiously you probably reduce your chances to 1/100000. It just seems worse than it is because if you get hit by lightening you end up dead and if you hit the deck at Keene your race is probably over, but again, the odds are really low....press on and go the finish is statistically the safe bet.
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [TonyStark] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TonyStark wrote:
It's complicated for sure, but WTC runs a business that has events outside in the elements. I've always been hugely impressed by the way IMLP (only venue I've experienced) has been run and for the most part I still am. Still, you'd think that they would have very clear plans on what to do in these cases both on the road and in how to credit those who finished and those who had an "abbreviated" day. The results page still shows what I'm calling the imaginary results. That is, a projected finishing time based on a one lap swim. It's just silly. We emailed Andrew Messick and he got right back to us saying that "Putting the "full results" up on the site is hard since 800 or so athletes were unable to complete the swim". That raised my eyebrows a bit. WTC is in the business of "Hard". In fact I'll bet with the resources they have WTC could make an accurate accounting and put it up online (after all, that is the permanent record) in less than 17 hours.

I am just replying to your post because you were there and have been there many times but my response is to the thread in general. I believe the plan that WTC has is clear. They don't stop a race if there is a risk of lightening or nor for an approaching storm. They cancel the swim or delay it if lightening starts, which from all accounts they did. They don't stop bike or run courses if there is lightening from my understanding. And frankly I don't see any need to, but when it comes to lightening for some reason people can't apply logic to the stats. Every racers can then make their own call. If there is a lightening during the bike pull into a building if you feel uncomfortable or quit (you still need to find a way home). Same on the run.

We're in an outdoor sport, so I don't see how WTC, or any other race organizer can have any other plan. Lightening can appear out of nowhere fairly quickly. 17 hours is a massive window for rain to hit. Out of 11 IMLP races, I have been hit by rain 6 times at some point in the day. Twice is was all day.

To the poster who was shivering in the cold rain, while I sympathize (I ran 25 miles of IMLP 2008 with a garbage bag on to try to warm up from freezing on the bike), that has nothing to do with WTC decisions. The chance of very cold rain at IMLP is pretty well a 50/50 chance. Probably the same if you sign up for Ironman Wales too.

They cancelled the rest of the swim when there was lightening then its up to us racers to decide if we want to keep going. No one if forcing us to race if we think we will get hit by a lightening bolt. What ever happened to personal accountability?

By the way, I ride all the time in lightening. In the summer, evening thunderstorms bike commuting home are constant. I'm not too worried about the lightening. The drivers will kill me first anyway even on a bright sunny day while the text and drive. At least that is what the stats tell me and I'm rolling with that.

Congrats to eveyone that finished (both 2 loop and 1 loop folks.....either way it is a finish. We are in an outdoor sport and the finish line is based on the day's conditions and what can be run).
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Devashish,

Thanks for the thoughtful perspective. You're probably right, though I recall watching a Mythbusters episode (dealing with lightning and the safety of a car) where they ran an experiment which suggested that being struck by lightning in a car was pretty likely to give a passenger (or driver) a fatal electrocution. I am not certain one way or another, but will give you the benefit of the doubt on the physics of the lightning.

Regarding the descent, Again, I was as cautious as I could be, but unlike any Ironman I have ever done I felt a lot of acute fear in that descent. (My second lap it was drying and I let myself coast to a peak speed of 51 mph, though in the deluge I tried hard to keep my speed under 30. But the brakes were only partially effective...). I am not angry at myself for continuing, but trying to be comfortable when/if I ever do decide to pull out of a race. This was the second race where retrospectively I wondered if persevering was the right choice. I finished IM Los Cabos in march with a septic bursitis in my elbow, and subsequently ended up on IV antibiotics for 6 days. I justified that at the time and put it behind me, but I did wonder whether stopping when I got off the bike instead of ignoring the spreading erythema of my elbow was a wise decision......

I am 7/7 finishing Ironmans, but, then again, the longer tthe streak goes, the more likely I am to push through some situation I probably should not. I am just trying to maintain a balanced perspective about it, and the confidence to know I will be prudent enough to pull the plug when it is the right thing to do.......

You raced at Canada, correct? How did that race go? How did you like the course? Do you have a race report? I am doing Texas (second time on that course) next May, and am contemplating either IM Canada or IM Florida for my second ironman of 2015.

-Michael Myette
Racing for RocklinEnduranceSports Racing Team
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [mmyette] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Michael,

I know what you are saying about finishing IM's. I have now completed 26 or 27 and I had a streak of 20 in a row before I ended one of my races in an ambulance after a crash into a house in Europe. But I don't let the miscue that day interfere with applying a rational analysis of actual stats when it comes to risk. Just because I crashed once in around 250 races in my life does not increase the risk for the next race. However, I do agree that there are times to pull out of a race, and in the first streak of 20, there were at least 2 where i regretted finishing. Better to bail out and fight stronger another day than rip your body apart and deal with the outcome for months afterwards.

As for IM Whistler, I would say you should do it. My race report is here http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=5189445
90% sure I will head back.
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:

The risk of getting struck by lightening certainly on a bike insulated from the ground by that rubber is stupidly low. There are shorter electrical paths to the ground with much less impedence than going through you, your bike and the rubber. Your chances of getting a heart attack or cancer on the day of the race were monumentally higher, but when it comes to lightening and the risk of an airplane crashing as a society, we have an irrational reaction out of proportion to the stats. Sure, if the stats converge, then you die, but the chances of those stats converging are really really low.


While I agree that the risk of getting hit by lightning is, in general, stupidly low I think a wet tire will have good enough conductivity. The rubber will make no difference at all.

During IMLP 2009 we had some lightning before the swim. I would think that's the organizers' worst-case scenario. As someone pointed out, there aren't enough ER vehicles in all of upstate NY to handle the case of a lightning strike in Mirror Lake. And lightning *can* strike bodies of water.

I just want to add that, although I'm sorry some of you didn't get to complete the second leg of the swim, I'm quite happy to hear that race organizers have their hearts in the right place. Protecting athletes is THE most important thing an RD can do.



AndyF
bike geek
Last edited by: AndyF: Aug 3, 14 10:58
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"They cancelled the rest of the swim when there was lightening then its up to us racers to decide if we want to keep going. No one if forcing us to race if we think we will get hit by a lightening bolt. What ever happened to personal accountability? "

Dev, I don't disagree with anything you've said. My problem isn't with the decision of the race officials to allow those who continued after being pulled from the water due to the weather. My gripe is that official results reflect those who only completed one lap of the swim. I should probably go over to the Whine Like A Little B thread because I've now been congratulated on my 9:57 "3rd place" finish over a dozen times. I'd rather be credited with the "slower", accurate time I had - 10:31 along with the 1st place. I know, I'm whining. These days the permanent record is the official online page, in this case the Ironman Lake Placid website, and it's just not accurate.

-----------------
Dale Stephanos (Formerly PappaD)

Last edited by: TonyStark: Aug 3, 14 10:53
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [TonyStark] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TonyStark wrote:
"They cancelled the rest of the swim when there was lightening then its up to us racers to decide if we want to keep going. No one if forcing us to race if we think we will get hit by a lightening bolt. What ever happened to personal accountability? "

Dev, I don't disagree with anything you've said. My problem isn't with the decision of the race officials to allow those who continued after being pulled from the water due to the weather. My gripe is that official results reflect those who only completed one lap of the swim. I should probably go over to the Whine Like A Little B thread because I've now been congratulated on my 9:57 "3rd place" finish over a dozen times. I'd rather be credited with the "slower", accurate time I had - 10:31 along with the 1st place. I know, I'm whining. These days the permanent record is the official online page, in this case there Ironman Lake Placid website.

I agree, that it would be easy enough to have 2 sets of results, at least on sportstats. Perhaps on Ironman.com they can't, but sportstats is equipped to post all kinds of stuff.
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm pretty sure they have both on sportsstats, but that's not Ironman's site. Also, and I don't really care that much about this, I assume national rankings would be affected by this. If I was a guy who's goal for the season was to finish say top 5, top 3, whatever, I'm sure the difference the inaccurate results reflect would mess with that. Again, this feels like complaining about having too much money, but what's earned should be recognized.

-----------------
Dale Stephanos (Formerly PappaD)

Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
They do have the results for both on sportstats - I emailed Ironman last week to see where I could get my real official results as I also completed both laps of the swim prior to them pulling people out and they directed me to the sportstats website. This was my first Ironman and I finished in 11:59 - not the 11:11 that my official results state - it's unfortunate that all of the photos, finishers certificate, etc. all now list the incorrect time - considering only around 30% of the field was affected by the shortened swim I just can't fathom why the decision was made to discount the 70% that completed both laps and have "real" official times for all portions of the race. Honestly I feel it's a bit of a slap in the face and with all of the congrats I've been getting from friends/family about my amazing 11:11 finish time - I now have to explain why that's not what I actually did. My real time was 11:59:23 and that's what I'm going by.

With regards to the safety of competitors on race day. The likelihood of getting hit by lighting is so minute that honestly it never really crossed my mind - what really crossed my mind was thank god the race has already started and they can't cancel the swim... little did I know. I was halfway through my second lap when it happened anyway so the time difference in regards to time in the water between finishing the lap and swimming to shore would have been pretty insignificant. I get that they did it for liability purposes but personally if given the choice it's a gamble I would have taken to finish the lap - I'm certain that I'm more likely to get killed out on a training ride than by lighting during the swim portion of a race (knock-on-wood).

As far as safety on the Keene decent I felt safe in the weather conditions, had no restriction of visibility due to my sunglasses (if people couldn't see they should probably have taken them off), and the Keene decent is a downhill so there was no standing water to induce hydroplaning. I'm not saying that people's fears of the decent aren't valid if they didn't feel comfortable in the conditions or descending at high speeds, but I was more concerned about the other competitors weaving all over the place and hogging the left side of the road for no seemingly good reason... I was the one yelling on your left down the entire decent. I'm only 112lbs and was hitting speeds of 46+mph on the decent in the rain with 47+mph on the second dry lap so not much difference between a pouring down rain and dry decent for me. I've heard of 2 people that crashed on the decent and neither were due to the weather conditions but rather due to other's improper actions due to fear of the decent in general compounded by fear if riding in the rain. I saw some crazy stuff including guys on fast (expensive) bikes wearing trash bags over and under their clothes and people that I'm sure burned out their brakes on the first loop. Maybe I was unusually unaffected by the conditions but I also didn't find it as cold as some people are making it out to be - yeah the decent was a little chilly but as soon as you got to a climb you warmed back up. I had on my tri shorts, bike jersey, and zoot arm coolers. I say if you are scared of descending then IM Lake Placid is probably not the right race for you nor if you are afraid of riding your bike in the rain (it rains often there) - if you aren't comfortable but are intent on doing Lake Placid then practice more descents and ride in all weather conditions... otherwise HTFU.


Elisha
"Triathlon doesn't build character. It reveals it."
Last edited by: f_ahsile04: Aug 3, 14 12:49
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:

They cancelled the rest of the swim when there was lightening then its up to us racers to decide if we want to keep going. No one if forcing us to race if we think we will get hit by a lightening bolt. What ever happened to personal accountability?

Dev, here's the thing: they didn't call the swim until an hour into the storm. It would be one thing if they called it the first sign of lightning. They didn't. It was lightning and thundering for an HOUR before they called it. At that point, I wasn't sure why they even bothered. The risk didn't change. It was bad from the beginning. Many of the swimmers wouldn't have been aware of what was going on once they were in the water and in their own zone. Those of us out there, however, with metal and carbon fiber poles in our hands....
Quote Reply
Re: IMLP Swim Shortened? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
mmyette wrote:
I ran the race.

I made the 2 laps, in the swim, and didn't know until the end that the swim was shortened for others.

I hit the first storm while on the bike, could barely see in the downpour down the Keene descent, and my brakes on carbon wheels were only partially effective. For me, the first lap, the Keene descent, and some close lightning strikes were the scariest portion of the day.

As Iron-folk, our culture has a uniquely difficult time with the situation that presented itself at Lake Placid. I am a mid-pack Ironman, and this was my 7th race. I knew it was not going to be a great race for me due to weather, and also some other personal and professional circumstances which occured in the weeks prior to the race. Nonetheless, I have to admit, the logical, and most courageous decision I could have made would have been to call the situation unsafe, and pull out of the race.

I didn't have the guts to do that. Continuing to the finish line was, for me, the easier decision. It was almost certainly not the better decision. "Fight, finish!" heard on the Kona broadcasts, and the stories of those whose races went to hell but still persevered to the finish line have affected many of us who habitually do this, myself included. The thought of quitting is so distasteful to me, that I risked injury, hydroplaning and half-blind as I flew down that descent, and a rare but real chance of getting struck by lightning. Somehow, the finish line was more compelling to my psyche than the risk I was taking...?????

Looking back, it was not a smart decision. But it was logical when I look at the cost of the race, the cost of travel, the personal cost of the time and resources spent training, and the psychological cost of explaining to family and friends (and myself) why the race was a "DNF". I am generalizing, and don't speak for anyone but myself, but sometimes my cultural bias against quitting is a great thing. Sometimes it is not. I am still chewing on the decisions I made at Lake Placid. Maybe it is easy to say this since I got to the finish line without injuring myself, but I think the gutsy decision would have been to do what we are culturally conditioned to never do.........quit.


The risk of getting struck by lightening certainly on a bike insulated from the ground by that rubber is stupidly low. There are shorter electrical paths to the ground with much less impedence than going through you, your bike and the rubber. Your chances of getting a heart attack or cancer on the day of the race were monumentally higher, but when it comes to lightening and the risk of an airplane crashing as a society, we have an irrational reaction out of proportion to the stats. Sure, if the stats converge, then you die, but the chances of those stats converging are really really low.

I'll go so far to say that if you are a semi competent rider, going down Keene in the rain should be no problem. There are no hard turns for your rubber to lose traction. Just a bit of leaning and counter steering with a solid contact patch. I've done Keene somethings like 75 times in my life in every condition between training and 22 times in racing (including the 2003 and 2008 deluges in LP). It's not that bad. You likely made the correct decision to press on and finish. Risk of something bad happening was low. Here is your proof. How many people got struck by lightening during the race? Answer = zero. How many people hit the deck on Keene ? Probably a few, but out of 2500, that's 1/1000 chance. If you descend semi cautiously you probably reduce your chances to 1/100000. It just seems worse than it is because if you get hit by lightening you end up dead and if you hit the deck at Keene your race is probably over, but again, the odds are really low....press on and go the finish is statistically the safe bet.

I think the problem with most people is that they wait until they achieve stupid speed to have that "ohhh shit am I going to fast?!?!"

My first loop I grabbed my brake and moved the right side of the road... I didn't feel great or super safe with the wind, thunders, rain, etc but I felt confident that I could handle the bike at the speed I was descending!

btw: Glad u (mmyette) powerthrough and finished!!!

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Quote Reply

Prev Next