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Re: I find all these watts hard to believe [sinkinswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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sinkinswimmer wrote:
bhc wrote:
Take a look at this picture and it will give you a very good idea about time savings for each item.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/...ime-trial-equipment/

What I found interesting is that the shoe covers save more time than an aero frame and disc rear wheel.


This is really interesting. I wonder why it is not more often pointed out that, not only the biggest bang for the buck, but the greatest actual time savings comes from three of the cheapest items on the list. Given that most people cannot generate the speed over a full triathlon to realize the benefits of most of this stuff, I find the ongoing debates, and the expenditures, for the pursuit of aero to be quite amusing. Especially when it seems most people spend over half of the ironman "run" walking. What was that saying about a fool and his money?

Charts like that one that keep adding to the confusion, for several reasons:

- it implies such aero gains are simply cumulative, when they are really only marginally cumulative.
- it quotes times savings for various items, yet the individual variability in many of those things is *very* large and not everything quoted is guaranteed to improve aerodynamics at all (e.g. shoe covers, helmet)

There are two types of aero changes:

- those very few items that are universally applicable to all (generally wheels fall into this category, although fastest wheel choice can depend on a number of factors, including rider's speed and wind conditions). The scale of the improvement may still be a bit variable depending on other things.

- those that are not (which is pretty much everything else) and so what improvement in speed is attained from any given change is individual to you.
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Re: I find all these watts hard to believe [bhc] [ In reply to ]
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bhc wrote:
sinkinswimmer wrote:
bhc wrote:
Take a look at this picture and it will give you a very good idea about time savings for each item.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/...ime-trial-equipment/

What I found interesting is that the shoe covers save more time than an aero frame and disc rear wheel.


This is really interesting. I wonder why it is not more often pointed out that, not only the biggest bang for the buck, but the greatest actual time savings comes from three of the cheapest items on the list. Given that most people cannot generate the speed over a full triathlon to realize the benefits of most of this stuff, I find the ongoing debates, and the expenditures, for the pursuit of aero to be quite amusing. Especially when it seems most people spend over half of the ironman "run" walking. What was that saying about a fool and his money?


I somewhat agree with what you are saying, but there is another way of looking at it. Let's say that you don't increase your speed but average 50 fewer watts during the bike. That will allow the individual to "run" a larger portion of the marathon.......I hope.

I would imagine it would be easy to correlate the run times of recent years with the "improvements" in aerodynamics. I would guess that ironman marathon times are not much faster than they used to be. I actually think people (and I do include myself in this group-hence the Cervelo purchase of a few years ago) simply believe buying stuff will make you better. It is certainly not limited to triathlon. Ever seen a pro shop on a golf course? Middle aged white guys with a lot of disposable income (ie, the Ironman demographic) just love buying stuff. And in case you think I am being critical...I am considering the new Giro Synthe helmet, Swiss Side Hadron wheels, and may get a new hydration system for my P2. Will any of it really make me faster? Nah...probably not. I don't even race any more. But I do love buying stuff.
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Re: I find all these watts hard to believe [sinkinswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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sinkinswimmer wrote:
I actually think people (and I do include myself in this group-hence the Cervelo purchase of a few years ago) simply believe buying stuff will make you better.

Will it make you better? No. Will it make you faster? Yes. Or alternatively, you'll go the same speed for less effort. Laws of aerodynamics aren't suspended because you are undertrained.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: I find all these watts hard to believe [sinkinswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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sinkinswimmer wrote:
Given that most people cannot generate the speed over a full triathlon to realize the benefits of most of this stuff,

god damn it is amazing the way people can selectively pay attention!



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: I find all these watts hard to believe [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
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B.McMaster wrote:
sinkinswimmer wrote:
bhc wrote:
Take a look at this picture and it will give you a very good idea about time savings for each item.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/...ime-trial-equipment/

What I found interesting is that the shoe covers save more time than an aero frame and disc rear wheel.


This is really interesting. I wonder why it is not more often pointed out that, not only the biggest bang for the buck, but the greatest actual time savings comes from three of the cheapest items on the list. Given that most people cannot generate the speed over a full triathlon to realize the benefits of most of this stuff, I find the ongoing debates, and the expenditures, for the pursuit of aero to be quite amusing. Especially when it seems most people spend over half of the ironman "run" walking. What was that saying about a fool and his money?


What is a full triathlon?

One no more entry spots. Badabingboosh!

LOL at "generate the speed".
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