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Re: Challenge World Championship?? [tucktri] [ In reply to ]
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tucktri wrote:
And can the whole debate about whether Kona is a world championship or not just rest? It is. For the pros. Ask any of them and I'm sure they will say it is. They don't need some corrupt quasi governmental body to sanction it as such.

Kona is obviously the most competitive long distance tri in the world, but the funny thing is that probably hundreds of the best long distance triathletes in the world aren't actually there. You have a small field of the top of the top guys and gals (who were willing to chase points racing all over the place), and then a shit-ton of age groupers - most of whom should really be mid-pack to back of pack pros. The current qualification system for ager's and pros is great at discouraging those mid to back of pack pro types from racing as a pro - because it's way easier to qualify as an amateur. So they stay age groupers indefinitely.

There really shouldn't be a distinction between pro and amateur in triathlon. It makes sense for ITU draft legal - where there's a clear hierarchy of races and professionals - but not for long course. As it stands now, the distinction is utterly meaningless anyway. Most pros have full time jobs and barely break even racing, and there are plenty of age-groupers who 'should' be racing pro (though it's well within their rights to not do so). It would be so much simpler if qualification for races like kona were just in general categories - open, masters, and grand masters. As it is with running.

Of course I don't think that model would be most profitable, and since that's all WTC cares about, we won't be seeing it any time soon.

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Re: Challenge World Championship?? [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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Who are these hundreds that are not at Kona who can win the race?
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Re: Challenge World Championship?? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
Respectfully, I think that line of argument completely misses the point. I could set up my own triathlon federation with slightly different distances and declare them the world championships. I could set up a competing federation of any sport and have my own world championship. But only if I got the best to attend would it be a credible championship...all it takes is money and you will get the best athletes there. Being under the IOC umbrella doesn't make a sport official, it only makes it official under that organizational structure which most countries do recognize. But lack of IOC inclusion does not mean a championship not meritorious, and in fact, the IOC umbrellas should mean even less in the future as it becomes more of a quasi profit seeking organization whose selection of sports for inclusion in the Olympics is driven predominantly by the TV ratings the sport can generate....brings money...brings the best. That is why new sports seek to develop federations, then seek inclusion in the Olympics because that tends to be the quickest way to establish credibility...just like triathlon. But it isn't the only way. And in the end, the athletes determine the credibility of the championship, not the impretur of the IOC/ITU/USAT/WTC or whatever.

Didnt Rinny just win at Roth? I would certainly say that means the best wants to race there.
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Re: Challenge World Championship?? [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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snackchair wrote:
tucktri wrote:
And can the whole debate about whether Kona is a world championship or not just rest? It is. For the pros. Ask any of them and I'm sure they will say it is. They don't need some corrupt quasi governmental body to sanction it as such.


Kona is obviously the most competitive long distance tri in the world, but the funny thing is that probably hundreds of the best long distance triathletes in the world aren't actually there. You have a small field of the top of the top guys and gals (who were willing to chase points racing all over the place), and then a shit-ton of age groupers - most of whom should really be mid-pack to back of pack pros. The current qualification system for ager's and pros is great at discouraging those mid to back of pack pro types from racing as a pro - because it's way easier to qualify as an amateur. So they stay age groupers indefinitely.

There really shouldn't be a distinction between pro and amateur in triathlon. It makes sense for ITU draft legal - where there's a clear hierarchy of races and professionals - but not for long course. As it stands now, the distinction is utterly meaningless anyway. Most pros have full time jobs and barely break even racing, and there are plenty of age-groupers who 'should' be racing pro (though it's well within their rights to not do so). It would be so much simpler if qualification for races like kona were just in general categories - open, masters, and grand masters. As it is with running.

Of course I don't think that model would be most profitable, and since that's all WTC cares about, we won't be seeing it any time soon.

Amen, amen!! You are speaking the gospel truth. When I came to triathlon from running I didn't understand this artificial distinction at all. Whoever wins should walk away with the cash.
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Re: Challenge World Championship?? [tucktri] [ In reply to ]
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tucktri wrote:
Who are these hundreds that are not at Kona who can win the race?

Didn't say that. Reread my post.

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Re: Challenge World Championship?? [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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That would be like saying any race Rinny does could be the world championship. What I am saying is that an event that bills itself as the world championship, and year after year, draws a deeper field than any other event of the same type, and has the very best in the world arranging their schedule around it, clearly deserves the title without regard to whether sports federations agree or not. Challenge Roth has the potential to 'challenge' WTC in this regard. If they declared Roth the iron distance world championship, required participation in the feeder events, and offered a substantially larger purse than WTC, I think they would seriously damage Kona's reputation within a few short years provided WTC did not counter in some other way. Like others have said, it probably won't happen but it is a fun thought to entertain.
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Re: Challenge World Championship?? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
That would be like saying any race Rinny does could be the world championship. What I am saying is that an event that bills itself as the world championship, and year after year, draws a deeper field than any other event of the same type, and has the very best in the world arranging their schedule around it, clearly deserves the title without regard to whether sports federations agree or not. Challenge Roth has the potential to 'challenge' WTC in this regard. If they declared Roth the iron distance world championship, required participation in the feeder events, and offered a substantially larger purse than WTC, I think they would seriously damage Kona's reputation within a few short years provided WTC did not counter in some other way. Like others have said, it probably won't happen but it is a fun thought to entertain.

That's all I was trying to imply. They have the potential, and clearly the fact that Rinny raced it and wanted to be there counted at least for part of that potential.
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Re: Challenge World Championship?? [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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You said hundreds of the best long course triathletes aren't there. The best are the pros. It's only a real championship for the pros. So again who are these hundreds?
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