Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 10:05

Post #51 of 69 (4904 views)

It would appear that this approach is working for WTC.

The United States led the AWA country standings with 5,758 athletes, followed by Australia (1,818), Canada (902), Germany (783) and the United Kingdom (592).

Originally from: http://m.ironman.com/...s.aspx#ixzz38DZMD48c

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Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [bhc] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 10:13

Post #52 of 69 (4894 views)

Nice link.. Thanks... So was pretty much ballpark... around 14800 AWA and gold would be 10% of that so ~1480

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 10:29

Post #53 of 69 (4871 views)

There is one thing that I don't understand about WTC-Kona. IM Florida had 3282 registered participants last year but Kona usually has around 2100 (2134 in 2013). They could easily raise the entry fee and still sell 3000+ spots at Kona. Any idea why they don't?

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Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [konaexpress] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 10:37

Post #54 of 69 (4856 views)

konaexpress wrote:

I received this a few days ago regarding the AWA.

IRONMAN Lake Placid All World Athletes!
First congratulations on a stellar 2013 season with IRONMAN!
As All World Athletes we promised you special treatment at our event venues. I wanted to give you a brief update on what to expect on site at IRONMAN Lake Placid this year.
First, we have set up a fast pass check in line in the Athlete Check-in area. Athlete Checkin is located in the Convention Center. There is a long hallway that leads to the entrance to checkin. Follow the arrows (in tape on the floor) to a special check in line for All World Athletes. Do not stand in line � you have a special checkin table at the entrance to checkin area. The table will be marked with the AWA Carpet and flag. We hope the fast pass line will help speed you through the check in process and give you more time to prepare for the big event on Sunday.
In EXPO on the Jumbo-Tron, we will be celebrating the All World Athletes racing with us. Look for your name and your status to appear occasionally throughout expo hours on rolling pages. We have set the scrolling timing to �very slow� so you will have time to grab that �selfie� in front of the big screen.
Your race bib will have a special logo on it that denotes your status. When you cross the finish line be sure to have that bib front and center!
Finally (and we are very excited about this) you will have a special All World Athlete swim cap. With your WHITE cap with the GOLD All World Athlete logo your family and friends will have an easier time finding you in the water. If so some reason you do not have a special cap or logo on your bib, please swing by the Solutions table in at Athlete Checkin and they will take care of you!
You will find me at the TriClub � IRONKIDS tent. Please swing by and say hi � would love your feedback on the program.
Here�s looking forward to an amazing event week and best of luck on race day!!
Liz
Elizabeth Kollar
Director of Athlete Development
-----------------------------
IRONMAN�
2701 North Rocky Point Dr | Suite 1250
Tampa, FL 33607
P: 813.868.3747
F: 813.868.5930
M:310-923-0586
Elizabeth.Kollar@ironman.com

Advertising a slow crawl so you can get a selfie? We are f#cking doomed as a society.

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [bhc] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 10:45

Post #55 of 69 (4845 views)

The pier (where T1/T2 are) is "fixed" in size...and currently "full".

Of course there are solutions to this problem which WTC could choose...and I suspect they will shortly.

Scott

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [bhc] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 11:12

Post #56 of 69 (4815 views)

You are a silly bird, aren't you.

The current size is limited by the pier.... But part of the {cough} charm is the exclusivity of the race. What fun (or profit) would it be if they had say 5000 people doing the race? Sure, they would make money, but the real point is to get people to spend more money at OTHER races to then spend MORE money at Kona.

I mean please... Currently around 22 of the 37 open races have regular entries available and it looks like you could sign up for Ironman Canada which is NEXT WEEKEND???

Louisville? Maryland? A couple months out and these races are still available???

The key is to increase demand. If a person is only racing a Ironman race and a few 70.3s a year, the key is to get them to pay more... Raise entry fees and people balk on move on... Add a point system and give them INCENTIVE to make that 2 or 3 Ironman races and maybe added in 2 more 70.3s... and instead of getting $1500 out of an athlete, you can get $3K. Heck... Do that, and lets say 25% of the athletes fall off, you still have increased your revenue per customer by 100% and you may even be able to also raise the entry fees... Just slightly, but $25 - $50 per race works out to $200 or more a year...

Ka-Ching!

Maybe they should try re-launching the "Access" program as well... Perfect time to do it... if you are going to give early entry to the top 1%, why not make it 2% and sell those other slots for a nice large fee with a large amount going to the "Ironman Foundation"

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 11:32

Post #57 of 69 (4800 views)

japarker24 wrote:

motoguy128 wrote:

So would Kona still count for more points? Regional championships?

The bad news is that it might mean having to race 2 IM's + kona in a year if your on the bubble. I think the points system needs to be set-up so it only counts your 1 best IM finish and your 2 best 70.3's. If you allow 2 IM's it would mean that at minimum you have to sandbag the 2nd one (go about 1 hour slower) just to get an extra 500-600 points over a 70.3. Making racing 2 IM's + Kona in a single season a requirement to KQ if you not the the top of the pointy end, it's a little extreme.

You might also make Hyvee or a 5150 worth nearly as many points as a 70.3 to help boost that series too.

It still mean you might need to schedule 4 races total in a season other than Kona in case you DNF, flat, etc.

If you are chasing points, and 2 IMs are allowed, why would you sandbag?

Right now I'm guessing the magic number in the larger age groups would be around 12,500 points. That's 2 top 5's in a IM + 1 top 4 in a 70.3. If you got 2nd in a IM and won two 70.3's. you would only get maybe 11,900 depending on your time. But you'd only need maybe 20th in the 2nd IM. Why push yourself too hard in the 2nd and compromise Kona. It also would make it harder to race well at the 70.3 WC and Kona in the same year, unless Kona and/or the 70.3 WC awarded more points.

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 11:35

Post #58 of 69 (4795 views)

I recall reading an article where only the GOLD (top 1%) get early registration. The others, Silver and Bronze get the recognition and goodies.

http://www.ironman.com/...e.aspx#axzz38DsaYZ7l

I am all for the fastest athletes getting Kona spots. I dont like the idea of people being able to chase points if they are way slower than someone else, but like Dev said in one of this posts, the automatic slot allocation worked when there was 120 KQ spots, no big deal for some of the AG to get 1 slot each when others were getting 12 or so. But now with 50 spots, it just seems crazy to think that a 70-74 gets 1 slot and 40-44 gets 2, or 3, when they have 30-35(?) times the amount of starters. I know some of those numbers are probably off, but you get the idea. I just like the idea of all the spots , maybe save one for each AG winner at each race, getting divided up fairly based on total participation numbers.
But with all that being said, if they make you have to race 2 140.6 PLUS Kona, that is a joke. I know some guys do that, but come on.
I really like the idea of having to do 1-140.6 and up to 2-70.3 (count your best two) and go off those points. Is there anyone in the world that is serious about KQ that would have a problem doing those three races?
Just my thoughts.

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Team_Doc28] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 11:47

Post #59 of 69 (4779 views)

Team_Doc28 wrote:

I really like the idea of having to do 1-140.6 and up to 2-70.3 (count your best two) and go off those points. Is there anyone in the world that is serious about KQ that would have a problem doing those three races?
Just my thoughts.

Most are already racing 2 70.3's or more now. Guys on the bubble might do less to focus on training.

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 11:55

Post #60 of 69 (4762 views)

They could make the number 4- 70.3 for all I care. I live in an area where I could do that pretty easily. Its the 140.6 that would really turn me off. Would just be tough to do two in one year. I get it and I know that if it increases participation ($) for WTC thats ultimately all a private equity company care about, and I am fine with that. I am just giving my two cents on what I think would be best. Thats all.
Shoot and to these guys that say, and I am going to paraphrase here, "who cares about being fair, just get faster etc....." well then why even have AG slots, lets just give them out to the fastest 50 racers (non pros) at an event. Stupid idea, but I get tired of hearing people say "get faster" when the current model is clearly no good for M30-49. Thats all.

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Team_Doc28] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 12:27

Post #61 of 69 (4723 views)

Team_Doc28 wrote:

They could make the number 4- 70.3 for all I care. I live in an area where I could do that pretty easily. Its the 140.6 that would really turn me off. Would just be tough to do two in one year. I get it and I know that if it increases participation ($) for WTC thats ultimately all a private equity company care about, and I am fine with that. I am just giving my two cents on what I think would be best. Thats all.
Shoot and to these guys that say, and I am going to paraphrase here, "who cares about being fair, just get faster etc....." well then why even have AG slots, lets just give them out to the fastest 50 racers (non pros) at an event. Stupid idea, but I get tired of hearing people say "get faster" when the current model is clearly no good for M30-49. Thats all.

Why do you think it's supposed to be easy (pretty easy)? Everyone would have the same opportunity to get points. Limiting people to their top 3 races keeps people from getting to Kona by race volume alone. An FOPer can easily get more points in one full & two halfs than I can in three fulls. The system still favors the faster people.

If it's that tough for you to do two fulls in a year and having to do so would turn you off, it sounds like racing in Kona isn't that important to you. It will be more important to others...one could argue that those are the people who really deserve to race in Kona. I've never seen anything saying that the charter of getting to Kona is to enable people to spend time with their families, minimize travel and expense, race sparingly to avoid breakdown, etc. It's going to keep getting harder to KQ...and it should. People who want it will have to work harder and make sacrifices. If someone doesn't want to do that...the goal isn't that important to them.

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [cjbruin] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 18:23

Post #62 of 69 (4643 views)

cjbruin wrote:

Team_Doc28 wrote:

...it sounds like racing in Kona isn't that important to you. It will be more important to others...one could argue that those are the people who really deserve to race in Kona. I've never seen anything saying that the charter of getting to Kona is to enable people to spend time with their families, minimize travel and expense, race sparingly to avoid breakdown, etc. It's going to keep getting harder to KQ...and it should. People who want it will have to work harder and make sacrifices. If someone doesn't want to do that...the goal isn't that important to them.

You have the right idea, but I will soften it a bit. When the sacrifices outweigh achieving the goal, that's when you have to stop and think about if achieving the goal is worth it. I want to race Kona (and have), but it seems like I am going to have to travel to do multiple IM races instead of qualifying at a specific race? That would be the tipping point for me. On the bright side, I've always wanted to take up chess. Is there a "Chesswitch"?

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Team_Doc28] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 18:54

Post #63 of 69 (4613 views)

Team_Doc28 wrote:

They could make the number 4- 70.3 for all I care. I live in an area where I could do that pretty easily. Its the 140.6 that would really turn me off. Would just be tough to do two in one year. I get it and I know that if it increases participation ($) for WTC thats ultimately all a private equity company care about, and I am fine with that. I am just giving my two cents on what I think would be best. Thats all.
Shoot and to these guys that say, and I am going to paraphrase here, "who cares about being fair, just get faster etc....." well then why even have AG slots, lets just give them out to the fastest 50 racers (non pros) at an event. Stupid idea, but I get tired of hearing people say "get faster" when the current model is clearly no good for M30-49. Thats all.

It's not about it being fair or not. You were on it with the money for WTC. This is a racing series handled on a for-profit basis by a private equity company, like you said. They don't owe it to you to make Kona possible for you, your location, and your available time to go travel to races. It's cool if you've gotten to do it a bunch of times, but they have no mandate to keep it that way or make it equitable. Again, for-profit company, not national governing body. Money, not fairness.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Jul 22, 14 19:33

Post #64 of 69 (4581 views)

I agree with you, and I'll never be that guy that bashes the WTC and says "they HAVE to do it this way." They are about the bottom line, and I am 100% fine with that. You are right, they dont owe Kona to anyone, they can do what they want and then we can choose if Kona is important to us. If racing 2 fulls and 2-5 halfs, plus then going to and racing Kona (plus all those costs) is what it takes, count me out. Its important to me, but not over family and job. Hey some guys could make that work, I dont think I could nor would want to. I hate when people cry about the WTC, no one forces anyone to do their races.

But I digress, I really just wanted to know if anyone had an educated guess how on all the slots would break down, if they went SOLEY off of rankings and partcipation numbers (no slots at any single races handed out.) I know very very very unlikely but I was just curious that is all.

Last edited by: Team_Doc28: Jul 22, 14 19:40

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [IronStork] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:47

Post #65 of 69 (4509 views)

At what point does WTC just make "memberships" that cost $10,000/ yr and you can go to Kona as long as you race 3-4 of their other races?

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Insidious] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:52

Post #66 of 69 (4502 views)

Insidious wrote:

At what point does WTC just make "memberships" that cost $10,000/ yr and you can go to Kona as long as you race 3-4 of their other races?

I would not rule anything out.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Supersquid] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:07

Post #67 of 69 (4469 views)

If that is the case I'd be out of a hunt for Kona as well. Kona would be just nothing more than a WC of "those who have the $$ to chase points" and not a real WC race where the best show up. Many of you on here can KQ seemingly at will but many of you don't have the $$ to chase points around the country. At that point, Kona competition would decline in quality should a points system be put in place. I understand WTC is a business, but the points system is a bit much as it is not AG'rs profession & points would take the entire KQ process to a new level of money hogging. I like the "one & done" way it is set up now. Get rewarded if you go fast on one trip. If not, you go to another & get a second shot in case you screwed up the first time...but if there were 3 required races...you have no choice but to dump a lot of $$ into 3 trips right out of the gate unless you are lucky enough to live somewhere close to three point events.

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [Team_Doc28] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:09

Post #68 of 69 (4461 views)

Team_Doc28 wrote:

I agree with you, and I'll never be that guy that bashes the WTC and says "they HAVE to do it this way." They are about the bottom line, and I am 100% fine with that. You are right, they dont owe Kona to anyone, they can do what they want and then we can choose if Kona is important to us. If racing 2 fulls and 2-5 halfs, plus then going to and racing Kona (plus all those costs) is what it takes, count me out. Its important to me, but not over family and job. Hey some guys could make that work, I dont think I could nor would want to. I hate when people cry about the WTC, no one forces anyone to do their races.

But I digress, I really just wanted to know if anyone had an educated guess how on all the slots would break down, if they went SOLEY off of rankings and partcipation numbers (no slots at any single races handed out.) I know very very very unlikely but I was just curious that is all.

Not sure how educated my guess is but I suspect they will completely switch to rankings within the next few years.

The current system allows someone to do one WTC race, get their slot and show up in Kona. Maybe they add a Challenge, Rev 3 or HITS race to their season. Making it based on points will encourage them to do more WTC races...like one or more of the 70.3s that aren't selling out.

Also, instead of giving slots to the only M70-74 in the race (just an example), they can give slots to the top 3 or 4 point getters...There's currently only 112 with AWA points in that entire age group.

I completely support your position that you wouldn't want to KQ at the expense of your family/personal life. I suspect that when it all settles in, fast guys will be able to KQ with one full and two halfs. I have no inside info...just a guess.

Re: Ironman AWA Article; is this the official writing on the wall? [tucktri] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 20:02

Post #69 of 69 (4390 views)

tucktri wrote:

konaexpress wrote:

I received this a few days ago regarding the AWA.

IRONMAN Lake Placid All World Athletes!
First congratulations on a stellar 2013 season with IRONMAN!
As All World Athletes we promised you special treatment at our event venues. I wanted to give you a brief update on what to expect on site at IRONMAN Lake Placid this year.
First, we have set up a fast pass check in line in the Athlete Check-in area. Athlete Checkin is located in the Convention Center. There is a long hallway that leads to the entrance to checkin. Follow the arrows (in tape on the floor) to a special check in line for All World Athletes. Do not stand in line � you have a special checkin table at the entrance to checkin area. The table will be marked with the AWA Carpet and flag. We hope the fast pass line will help speed you through the check in process and give you more time to prepare for the big event on Sunday.
In EXPO on the Jumbo-Tron, we will be celebrating the All World Athletes racing with us. Look for your name and your status to appear occasionally throughout expo hours on rolling pages. We have set the scrolling timing to �very slow� so you will have time to grab that �selfie� in front of the big screen.
Your race bib will have a special logo on it that denotes your status. When you cross the finish line be sure to have that bib front and center!
Finally (and we are very excited about this) you will have a special All World Athlete swim cap. With your WHITE cap with the GOLD All World Athlete logo your family and friends will have an easier time finding you in the water. If so some reason you do not have a special cap or logo on your bib, please swing by the Solutions table in at Athlete Checkin and they will take care of you!
You will find me at the TriClub � IRONKIDS tent. Please swing by and say hi � would love your feedback on the program.
Here�s looking forward to an amazing event week and best of luck on race day!!
Liz
Elizabeth Kollar
Director of Athlete Development
-----------------------------
IRONMAN�
2701 North Rocky Point Dr | Suite 1250
Tampa, FL 33607
P: 813.868.3747
F: 813.868.5930
M:310-923-0586
Elizabeth.Kollar@ironman.com

Advertising a slow crawl so you can get a selfie? We are f#cking doomed as a society.

Priceless!!
Who the fuc comes up with this shite ?? LMAO

.

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