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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [jonahsdad] [ In reply to ]
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jonahsdad wrote:
TropicPlace wrote:
VGT wrote:
jonahsdad wrote:
Banditing Boston is not like banditing most other races. The Boston marathon limits field size due to its ability to only handle a certain number of runners. ((I think is has been stated that the limitin factor is the size of the starting area). Thousands of people qualify for boston but are still unable to get a spot. Every person who bandits is indirectly stealing a spot from one of the people who qualified.

This is really no different than if 100 people parked they bikes on the pier at kona and bandited the race. 100 less legitimate people would be able to race kona because their spot was taken by a bandit.


Not quite sure you understand what banditing is.


I was scratching my head on this logic as well. With respect to IM races (e.g., Kona), I imagine the bib stealing would be a bit more difficult to do since there are assigned spots to park your bike and transition bag locations.

I completely understand banditing. Let me try again.

At the boston start line there is only enough room for a certain number of people. If a bandit is standing there he is taking up space and preventing the race from allowing a legitimately qualified person from registering and running the race. Boston race directors look at the starting line see it is full and realize 'we cant let any more people in next year". They might like to let 10000 more people in but it would be logistically impossible. All those bandits in the race are being taken into account when the boston directors decide how many people can run.

At the kona pier there is only enough room for a certain number of people. If a bandit parks his bike there he is taking up space and preventing the race from allowing a legitimately qualified person from registering and running the race. Kona race directors look at the pier see it is full and realize 'we cant let any more people in next year". They might like to let 100 more people in but it would be logistically impossible.


See, same situation. Yes, spots are assigned at kona and not boston but the concept is the same. A bandit is taking the spot of someone who would like to be doing the race.

Article here discussing that Boston's field size is limited by the amount of people Hopkinton will allow to squeeze into its streets.

Ah, I see what you are getting at. I agree with Boston, but less so for Kona just because of logistics of getting your bike into transition. IMWI was pretty strict about identifying people entering transition (wristbands and numbers). Again, I am not saying it is impossible to pull off. But, the logistics would prevent any sizable number of people from doing it in the same race.
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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Just a few comments from the Foursquare CEO's wife's stolen bib story explain why someone who either qualified or raised $$ for charity might be offended:

"So you mean there's a problem with faking an entry into an event that was the site of a terrorist attack the prior year? Next you're going to tell me that sneaking onto flights I haven't paid or registered for is somehow problematic. Stupid regulations."

"No, it's not problematic so long as you really want to. That's why what these people did was OK. They really wanted to - no they "strongly needed" to run, rules be damned. They only apologize for potentially offending people. Their "strong need" to run together makes everything OK. I have a "strong need" to get a front row seat to the Oscars next year, so I will show up, wear a Julia Roberts mask, lock her in the bathroom and everything will be fine. But, if in the course of doing this I offend someone, then I will apologize for such offense."

"Um, well, can he understand the strong need of the woman who earned the bib fair and square to be irritated at these two entitled asshats?
Like why couldn't the CEO's wife deal with rejection like the rest of us plebs have to?
Oh what's that? You two wanted to run together in the Boston Marathon? Oh that makes you so FUCKING different from everyone else who wanted to run in it too. I had no idea! That makes all the difference now."


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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Hasn't Cowman bandited Kona a few times (without using a fake number and not crossing the finish line)?//

Ya, a couple times before there was any internet, or even before we all had computers. Early 80's as i recall. And since you brought him up, he has been punished by USAT, in fact the worst one they can levy, lifetime ban. So now do you think these others should at least get my proposed speeding ticket punishment? Seems like they would be getting off easy by your argument.


I think we are on the same side. I only brought up Cowman because I knew that he had bandited Kona. I just didn't realize it was that long ago. I was pointing out that logistically, it would be possible to bandit Kona with a fake number if someone was super motivated to do so and I was wondering how many people who think it's no big deal in Boston, would think the same about Kona.

I'm all for fining them. I think what they did was dishonorable. While I'm not going to lose any sleep if they are not punished, I also don't care if they get pummeled on social media. You just never know how these things are going to play out. One of them could go for a job interview, have the interviewer recognize him/her, connect it to the story and decide not to hire them for their dishonesty. Heck, the one gal may already be at a disadvantage in the job market because she chose to delete her Linked In account. It's a pretty small world and the Internet has made it smaller.

Edit...I remember Cowman racing at Honu in 2006. He must have been banditing that race too given his USAT ban.
Last edited by: cjbruin: Apr 25, 14 19:00
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [Goosedog] [ In reply to ]
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Goosedog wrote:
burnman wrote:


You may find it weak that people's views on public property use differ, but that has no bearing on the fact that they differ.

Furthermore, what part of my opinion requires changing? I've stated multiple times that I don't endorse the practice, but I'm not foolish enough to believe that my opinion is universal, nor should be universal. Municipal ordinances are irrelevant to the matter. You practice public property use to the extent of your definition of public property.


Are you suggesting that use of public space is some sort of natural or inherent right that extends beyond the parameters placed on it by the owner of the public space?

Who "owns" public space?

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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In this case during the hours of the race contract, the city and/or race organization do they not? You certainly cant just go about your business on these "public" roads during the marathon.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: BDoughtie: Apr 25, 14 19:22
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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burnman wrote:

Who "owns" public space?

I'll play, but you answer my question first.
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
In this case during the hours of the race contract, the city and/or race organization do they not? You certainly cant just go about your business on these "public" roads during the marathon.

A contracted event implies that a distinct owner is renting the space out to a second party for temporary access and use. To own something means that you have unfettered access to it, and unfettered control over access to it. The BAA cannot rent (or temporarily own) the public space it occupies, and then subsequently do with it as they please (i.e. control access). If they truly owned it, then at any point in their contract term they could simply say, "We're never giving it back - we own it."

So, I ask again, who owns these public spaces, and who ultimately retains the property right to tell a person that they can/cannot access the spaces during an event? The answer is not as benign or simplistic as many folks choose to believe. Hence why I repeated the argument that while I don't endorse banditing (for my own personal reasons), I refuse to condemn its proponents for the simple reason that "public property" is an entirely grey notion.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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So are you saying you can freely do as you please on these roads during these events? Yes or no?

If you cant, then I'm not sure what your point is other than arguing semantics. Your trying to argue over who "owns" something, yet during the time of said event, you cant access that public property as easily as you could otherwise. So, what is your point?

I thought it's pretty self explanatory. If an road is "closed" for a concert/parade/race, you the "public" guy cant just do as you please and access said road because well you want to and it's a "public" road.

ETA: Maybe I have it wrong, please enlighten me on the situation.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: BDoughtie: Apr 25, 14 20:07
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [Goosedog] [ In reply to ]
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Goosedog wrote:
burnman wrote:

Who "owns" public space?

I'll play, but you answer my question first.

My answer to your question is the rhetorical question "Who 'owns' public space?" Ownership of public property is a nebulous concept. Who has the right to control access to public property? Is it the public? Is it the government? Aren't they (theoretically) one in the same? If everyone truly retains equal ownership of a space, then isn't it really at their discretion when and how they access it? Can another individual or entity deny you access to what you rightfully own, or do you simply not own it?

There's not a single, definitive answer to any of these questions. I don't purport to make any point beyond that. In truth, I don't care one bit if you believe that race banditing (on non-private property) is deplorable or awesome. I only care that people recognize that not everyone shares the same opinion on the matter, and there is a practical basis for such disagreement.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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burnman wrote:

If they truly owned it, then at any point in their contract term they could simply say, "We're never giving it back - we own it."


You don't understand property rights. Have you ever rented an apartment?
Last edited by: Goosedog: Apr 25, 14 20:26
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [Macho Grande] [ In reply to ]
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My favorite part of the blog post from The Real Snarky for those of you who did not click:

From my perspective as a wise learned pundit, these bandits pulled a fast one and deserve a very light slap on the wrist. They're kids for fucks sake, and their names don't need to appear in the papers. BAA didn't run out of 50 cent finisher medals and no one went without proper hydration. Quit your fucking crying. At Ironman Melbourne, 900 adults cut the swim course. 1 in 7 participants at Ironman Germany anonymously confessed to doping. Our marquee event in Kona features 50 person draft packs one right after the other. WTC is run by private school money grubbing goldbrickers who have no long term interest in the sport beyond their own exit strategy. Four kids forged race bibs. Get some perspective.
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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burnman wrote:
I only care that people recognize that not everyone shares the same opinion on the matter, and there is a practical basis for such disagreement.


Well, not really. But maybe. Sorry to answer with a question, but do you think that motorists would have a practical basis for driving the course during the race?
Last edited by: Goosedog: Apr 25, 14 20:35
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [randymar] [ In reply to ]
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randymar wrote:
shivermetimbers wrote:
JenSw wrote:
shivermetimbers wrote:
orphious wrote:
LMAO... You must be new here.


let me guess...you're the cool, edgy, hip ST veteran?


No, that's me.


I'm sorry......


WHich brings us back to

You must be new here

and still no one gives a f#@k......umadbro?

"I would definitely smell her seat after a century ride"
Rappstar wrote:
That might be the post of the year right there.
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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See my last post. If that doesn't clarify my point(s) on banditing in public spaces, then follow up with additional comments/questions.

BTW, has anyone come up with a better word than "banditing"? It doesn't sound OR look right, and I'm not sure that I can write it anymore.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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burnman wrote:
If that doesn't clarify my point(s) on banditing in public spaces, then follow up with additional comments/questions.


Do you think teams should be allowed to reserve field space in public parks for practice or games?
Last edited by: Goosedog: Apr 25, 14 20:42
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Re: Bandits at Boston…. [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Zippy303 wrote:
My favorite part of the blog post from The Real Snarky for those of you who did not click:

From my perspective as a wise learned pundit, these bandits pulled a fast one and deserve a very light slap on the wrist. They're kids for fucks sake, and their names don't need to appear in the papers. BAA didn't run out of 50 cent finisher medals and no one went without proper hydration. Quit your fucking crying. At Ironman Melbourne, 900 adults cut the swim course. 1 in 7 participants at Ironman Germany anonymously confessed to doping. Our marquee event in Kona features 50 person draft packs one right after the other. WTC is run by private school money grubbing goldbrickers who have no long term interest in the sport beyond their own exit strategy. Four kids forged race bibs. Get some perspective.

That dude is fat.
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