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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [steelrain66] [ In reply to ]
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steelrain66 wrote:
Second guessing my strategy for this weekend.... This will be my first Olympic distance, have done lots of Sprints, and have been planning on treating it like I do a Sprint. Curious what the majority does, pace the bike and all out on the run or just all out the whole way through?


What does that mean? Of course you pace yourself. Are you saying you try to run your 10k at the speed of your all out 40 yard sprint? That would be all out. Anything less is pacing.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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See comment #5.....

It always amazes me the amount of people around here who pipe in with comments like this, showing they clearly have not bothered to read the information prior to their post. Bravo sir, you succeeded in upholding the mantra of a ST follower, clearly I'm an idiot. Have a great day, I certainly hope it improves!
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [steelrain66] [ In reply to ]
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steelrain66 wrote:
Second guessing my strategy for this weekend.... This will be my first Olympic distance, have done lots of Sprints, and have been planning on treating it like I do a Sprint. Curious what the majority does, pace the bike and all out on the run or just all out the whole way through?

You go as fast as you can maintain a given pace for the duration of the event. Yeah - not as easy to figure out as it sounds. I use HR monitor and perceived exertion. Just like a longer event, you do not want to get off the bike cooked. 6.2 miles is a long way to run on dead legs. I go just a tiny bit under my anaerobic threshold on the bike and run, but really listen to my legs on the bike. Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance. IMHO, If you are doing it right, the last 2-3 miles of the run will be painful and you will be glad when it is over.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [steelrain66] [ In reply to ]
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steelrain66 wrote:
Second guessing my strategy for this weekend.... This will be my first Olympic distance, have done lots of Sprints, and have been planning on treating it like I do a Sprint. Curious what the majority does, pace the bike and all out on the run or just all out the whole way through?

An Oly race should be more like a sprint than a 70.3. That needs to be your mentality. In a half, there are times on the bike where I "take it easy" or rest a little bit to save some for the run. Not for one second during a sprint or an oly do I worry about saving anything for the run. IMHO many people ride much slower than they are capable of in an oly.

Proud Member of Chris McDonald's 2018 Big Sexy Race Team "That which doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger"
Blog-Twitter-Instagram-Race Reports - 2018 Races: IM Florida 70.3, IM Raleigh 70.3, IM 70.3 World Championships - South Africa, IM North Carolina 70.3
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:
steelrain66 wrote:
Second guessing my strategy for this weekend.... This will be my first Olympic distance, have done lots of Sprints, and have been planning on treating it like I do a Sprint. Curious what the majority does, pace the bike and all out on the run or just all out the whole way through?


nchristi wrote:
Of course you have to pace; you can't go all out much longer than 10 seconds or so.

What does that mean? Of course you pace yourself. Are you saying you try to run your 10k at the speed of your all out 40 yard sprint? That would be all out. Anything less is pacing.

I can't be the only one... When I say "all out" in the context of a Tri (particularly a sprint), of course I don't mean I'm attempting to go as fast as I possibly can instantaneously from the start or else I'd completely blow up about a minute into the swim; I mean I'm pacing each leg as though it were a stand-alone event, and figuring that I'll recover just enough juice during the transition and the switch to different muscles that I don't really need to 'save' myself for the bike during the swim nor for the run during the bike. If anything, I think there's a subconscious tendency to try and save for the run anyway so I find it mentally harder to make myself NOT hold back on the bike.

As for comparing sprint to Oly ~ I find my Oly times are actually slightly faster than double (assuming the sprint swim is 750m) on a comparable course since you don't double the transitions and the swim & run drop-off isn't that much, while the net bike pace is often just as fast if not slightly faster in the Oly (which might seem counterintuitive at first)... although the max threshold pace in the sprint should naturally be a bit faster, you always lose a little off the avg at the beginning & end depending on the course exit/entry config of the transition area, as well as it usually taking a mile or two to physically settle into a pedaling groove after the swim, so that drain takes a proportionally bigger 'bite' out of the shorter race while a larger % of the Oly is spent at full race threshold.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [steelrain66] [ In reply to ]
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i'm usually able to go all out for about 15sec then i blow up.

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [steelrain66] [ In reply to ]
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Depends on what your strong point is. Since this is your first Olympic distance treat this is as a test on strategy. Personally I can swim all day at the same pace, doesn't matter on the distance, I only have one (1) pace but can swim all day, so pacing is easy for me on the swim. If you do any sort of decent miles on your bike in training then 26 miles is probably an easy distance, I go for it and ride hard. The run gets tricky - jumping from 3.1 to 6.2 miles can be hard - unless your daily run is 6+miles in which case this is still a distance to push hard at. You need to look at what you do in training and decide yourself "what can I sustain". Personally on Sunday I'll be nice and easy on the swim, pushing hard on the bike, and hoping to run people down on the run - but it's the first race of the season for me, and this is based off my winter training. Good luck.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [HoustonTri(er)] [ In reply to ]
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Olympic distance? Are you serious? And under 50 years of age? ALL THE FARGIN WAY OUT SQUIRE!
Hell, it is just a tad over 2 hours! How piss easy is that? I AM 50 and run sub 4, bike on the flat 38-faster if drafting allowed, will swim that pitifully short 1 or 1.5km in 20 if I am wearing floaties. So what is the problem?
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [steelrain66] [ In reply to ]
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Hard as you can go on the swim
Hard as you can go on the bike (maybe FTP plus a bit)
Hang on for the run
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [TheDawg] [ In reply to ]
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Must be nice to be an elite athlete like yourself ; )
For most AGers (and most humans) going "flat out" and by that I mean 100%, cannot go any faster, absolute fastest speed you can maintain in any event does not result in your best overall time. The advice was asked for a first time Olympic distance racer - I don't think "all the fargin way out squire" is the best advice for a happy first race - of course all our advice is based on personal experience and worth what was paid for it.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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Like the 400 IM every leg should be a build. That is pretty much the case in every triathlon distance - even a sprint.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [steelrain66] [ In reply to ]
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First, best of luck in your first Olympic distance.
Second, if you are aiming to come in at or below 2:45, you are not going to win or place in any age group.
Once you accept that, you can stop worrying about "the race" and do the event, according to your level of training.

Working backwards from a 45 min 10K and an admitted 20mph averaged top speed on the bike (75min) and allowing for 4 mins of transitions, you have to swim under 41 min 1500m. to achieve your goal.

Take that apart a bit further.
To swim better than 41min, your sprint time would have to be below 20min for 750m. Most people don't seem to swim any slower for the 1500 over their 750 time.
Is 75min in line with your sprint bike time, which should be below 46min for 25k. Again you should be fairly close between the two.
You already know your 10k time, although I would suggest that being within 3 min of your stand alone is optimistic.

This is what is so fascinating about the sport. Objective review of your own capability according to your level of training and talent.
If any of those splits are well within your comfort zone, you can afford to push a little harder in one of the other disciplines.
Disciple is the key to all this, keeping to the plan and executing it takes discipline. It's key to having a great day.

My only observations are that pushing the swim in the first 10 minutes will almost certainly ruin your swim and pushing the bike in the last twenty minutes will almost certainly ruin your run.
Ruining your run will ruin your day.

Have a great day.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [slowshortround] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hard as you can go on the swim
Hard as you can go on
the bike (maybe FTP plus a bit)
Hang on for the run

Very similar to my strategy; other than adjusting my swim pace in fear of open water swimming which tends to have me scale back a hair. I'll go as hard on the bike as I can. The run usually starts a bit slow but the pace comes back in a short time.

To me pacing implies finishing with something left; not necessarily doing the whole event at 15-second effort. I've never been able to "pace" AND go fast at the same time; the whole concept of holding something back tends to just make me go slower overall, and then finish feeling like I should have gone faster.

Mind you, this is for Olympic distance where I think the flat-out method will still work. I don't think this would be good advice for 70.3 or higher.

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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [phog] [ In reply to ]
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You make a lot of good points

jaretj
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [slowshortround] [ In reply to ]
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slowshortround wrote:
Hard as you can go on the swim
Hard as you can go on the bike (maybe FTP plus a bit)
Hang on for the run

Is this assuming the ability to ride comfortably under an hour?

Shane
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [gsmacleod] [ In reply to ]
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Well. Here's my thought.

Is it an A race?

If so, then maybe hold back a bit if youre worried about not having enough gas for the run.

But it never hurts to try. Maybe try it in training. See how you go after putting in a full-gas effort on the bike. You might surprise yourself.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [slowshortround] [ In reply to ]
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slowshortround wrote:
Well. Here's my thought.

Is it an A race?

If so, then maybe hold back a bit if youre worried about not having enough gas for the run.

But it never hurts to try. Maybe try it in training. See how you go after putting in a full-gas effort on the bike. You might surprise yourself.

Well, assuming an athlete has a well established FTP and, like most triathletes, will ride longer than an hour, targeting FTP is going to lead to a very poor run.

Shane
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [gsmacleod] [ In reply to ]
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Never know unless you try. I think most folks hold back too much than push too hard. Sometimes better to go by feel than just pure numbers. Its an Olympic not a 70.3 or longer.
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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [benjpi] [ In reply to ]
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"I'll go as hard on the bike as I can" Doesn't this really mean "as hard as I can ride for 25 miles and still be able to race a 6.2 mile run after"? That is the definition of pacing. Pacing shouldn't have a negative connotation. Everyone paces themselves, including Olympic athletes, except for the 100 meter sprinters.

I realize that this is semantics, but it is necessary to make the point that many of us are trying to make.



"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude

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Re: Do you pace an Olympic distance or go all out? [slowshortround] [ In reply to ]
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slowshortround wrote:
Never know unless you try. I think most folks hold back too much than push too hard. Sometimes better to go by feel than just pure numbers. Its an Olympic not a 70.3 or longer.

It is possible that many athletes ride too conservatively during short course events but trying to ride above FTP is not going to be optimal for pretty much any athlete.

Shane
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