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Re: Misconceptions about new Ironman swim and start changes [adablduya1] [ In reply to ]
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The last three years since they went to rolling start at CDA I think the swim has had a fraction of the chaos it used to- when it was a mass start it was full contact chaos to the first turn, now I find the actual swim more of a low stress warm up for the bike
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Re: Misconceptions about new Ironman swim and start changes [jrf1980] [ In reply to ]
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jrf1980 wrote:
devashish_paul: For the record, I stood right next to the 1:10-1:20 sign at IMLP when I got in line. Then when the race started and the line surged forward I ended up getting pushed up to the 1:00-1:10 sign. Most people were milling around outside the starting area then it started then they pushed everyone together and forward. I guess I could have and maybe should have pushed my way back towards where I wanted to be, but just decided to jump in since I was standing right in front of the water, it all happened pretty quickly to be honest. I wasn't being a dumbass thinking I was going to suddenly swim out of my mind, just got in a bad spot. The self seeding thing is pretty easy, but doesn't always work even when you try to get in the right place. And it wasn't just chaotic at the beginning, it was chaotic pretty much from start to finish. From the race reports I've read, I think there were a lot of people that had a lot of slower and faster people starting before and after them. Maybe it was from the start or maybe there was just so many people in the water that it didn't really matter. They said there were over 2400 for the race.

OK I can see that happening in the sense that it is hard in the moment to think with sanity when we have the pressure of an entire year of training and pre race adrenaline. Nevertheless, as I said, with the rolling start being only 10 swimmers or so wide, you and I are always with a few feet of dead calm open water. Next time if it gets chaotic, just pull out left or right and you'll have still flat water.
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Re: Misconceptions about new Ironman swim and start changes [jrf1980] [ In reply to ]
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jrf1980 wrote:
devashish_paul: For the record, I stood right next to the 1:10-1:20 sign at IMLP when I got in line. Then when the race started and the line surged forward I ended up getting pushed up to the 1:00-1:10 sign. Most people were milling around outside the starting area then it started then they pushed everyone together and forward. I guess I could have and maybe should have pushed my way back towards where I wanted to be, but just decided to jump in since I was standing right in front of the water, it all happened pretty quickly to be honest. I wasn't being a dumbass thinking I was going to suddenly swim out of my mind, just got in a bad spot. The self seeding thing is pretty easy, but doesn't always work even when you try to get in the right place. And it wasn't just chaotic at the beginning, it was chaotic pretty much from start to finish. From the race reports I've read, I think there were a lot of people that had a lot of slower and faster people starting before and after them. Maybe it was from the start or maybe there was just so many people in the water that it didn't really matter. They said there were over 2400 for the race.

It was strange because they didn't move the signs with the crowd. I lined up where I thought I should be and then the crowd was moving past me before I realized the signs weren't moving. I ended up just moving with the crowd past and have no idea what seeding group I ended up starting with.

IMLP was my first rolling start. I haven't been a fan of the idea, I think it's great when everyone in the race is on the same clock. I once out sprinted a friend to the finish line and beat him by one second. I wouldn't have that story if the race would have been a rolling start.
Having said that, it was the cleanest IM swim I've ever had.
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Re: Misconceptions about new Ironman swim and start changes [jrf1980] [ In reply to ]
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i did lp 4 times when there were mass swim starts. if you seeded yourself properly, it was chaotic in the beginning, but got under control by the first turn. i'd be curious to hear from someone who did lp in a mass start and also rolling to have them compare experiences. also, i did immt when it was mass start and have done it in waves....really no difference, it's a large body of water.
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Re: Misconceptions about new Ironman swim and start changes [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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A problem with the rolling start this year at IMLP was that, unlike in previous years, the signs didn't move with the crowd. After the first few minutes the sign holders decided to stand still while some of the people filed past them. You ended getting a shuffling effect as part of the crowd moved forward with the people around them, while some people tried to stay behind the signs (until they realized the signs weren't moving).
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Re: Misconceptions about new Ironman swim and start changes [pvl000] [ In reply to ]
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pvl000 wrote:
A problem with the rolling start this year at IMLP was that, unlike in previous years, the signs didn't move with the crowd. After the first few minutes the sign holders decided to stand still while some of the people filed past them. You ended getting a shuffling effect as part of the crowd moved forward with the people around them, while some people tried to stay behind the signs (until they realized the signs weren't moving).


If this was the case then maybe I did start where I wanted to start. All I know is I got in line next to the 1:10-1:20 sign then right as I got up to the water I was standing next to the 1:00-1:10 sign and thought oh crap.

I guess it is all kind of besides my point a little. I think the point I was trying to make is that I'm not convinced that a rolling start is safer than a mass start. I think it probably has about the same amount of danger either way. A rolling start probably does make the actual start of the race safer, but then all the issue of badly seeded swimmers (whether an honest mistake or stupidity) causes issues for the entire race. And as I said in my original reply, this is based only on my own limited experiences, apparently the research shows differently.
Last edited by: jrf1980: Aug 4, 15 13:39
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Re: Misconceptions about new Ironman swim and start changes [charlietris] [ In reply to ]
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charlietris wrote:
i did lp 4 times when there were mass swim starts. if you seeded yourself properly, it was chaotic in the beginning, but got under control by the first turn. i'd be curious to hear from someone who did lp in a mass start and also rolling to have them compare experiences. also, i did immt when it was mass start and have done it in waves....really no difference, it's a large body of water.

I did IMLP 10x mass start and 2013 rolling start.

I would say from 1999-2005 the mass start was fine when the race as 1300-1700 people.

Then the race started getting over 2000, then over 2300, then over 2500 if I recall correctly and there was zero place and the entire swim swim to the first buoy was combat zone and after that, the section in between the first and second turn was really congested and it would take almost to the end of the first loop to sort itself out (I was swimming 59-63 minutes in this time frame....I think there was one 65 min swim when I separated a shoulder 7 weeks before the race in there too).

The 2013 rolling start was totally relaxed. I was literally the last person out of transition, when in the 60-65 range and just entered the water like a regular morning swim, started easy for 50m and built up for the next 200m, swam extreme left in clear water and 250m later tucked in with the group who were swimming around the speed I would normally swim and just tucked in for the rest of the swim and treated the swim like a long warmup for the bike. It was really calm compared to any of the previous IMLP mass starts. I did the same thing at IM Texas this year although I was not the last person out of transition.

At the Tremblant mass start in 2012, I swam wide right and it was pretty good, but I know that those why swam on the left got totally squeezed as there were a ton of boats by the marina that did not move prior to the race (they were supposed to be gone). Subsquent wave start years (which is really like 5x500 person mass start), I just went wide right and was in clean open water, but Tremblant is a big enough lake. It's not like you are stuck in a finite small area.
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