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SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on!
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oldandslow
Dec 7, 12 13:22
Post #1 of 56
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SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on!
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The Supreme Court will hear the Proposition 8 case and DOMA appeals. I am not totally sure of the logic for hearing the Prop 8 case, but it certainly should be an interesting session. Looking forward to hearing Scalia turn into a pretzel, trying to argue against state's rights in DOMA.
veganerd
Dec 7, 12 13:30
Post #2 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [oldandslow]
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With nearly 20% of stated now allowing gay marriage, this will be the final nail in the coffin against marriage inequality.
enemy of epilepsy
BarryP
Dec 7, 12 13:33
Post #3 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [veganerd]
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I'm not so sure about that.
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
veganerd
Dec 7, 12 13:42
Post #4 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [BarryP]
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BarryP wrote:
I'm not so sure about that.
It's gonna happen, That shits getting struck the fuck down
enemy of epilepsy
morey000
Dec 7, 12 15:46
Post #5 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [oldandslow]
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National support for gay marriage is now about on par with the percent of heterosexual marriages that fail.
the nation is ready. Let's see if the old guys in the black robes are.
YaHey
Dec 7, 12 15:50
Post #6 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [oldandslow]
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Almost all companies health insurance plans no cover "partners", so the law is actually behind the times in where society and businesses are regarding gay marriage.
oldandslow, think of it, you'll be able to marry any man you want ;-)
Duffy
Dec 7, 12 19:01
Post #7 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [veganerd]
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veganerd wrote:
BarryP wrote:
I'm not so sure about that.
It's gonna happen, That shits getting struck the fuck down
I'd be surprised if they strike down Prop 8.
____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
JenSw
Dec 7, 12 19:07
Post #8 of 56
(953 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [veganerd]
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I live in Washington state and yesterday I wrote on Facebook that it was a good day to live in WA. My best friend wrote "Why, because we can get married or because we can get stoned?" Ha ha!
I don't know the specifics on what the appeals are based on that got the cases to the SC. I'm hopeful they'll have a hard time justifying inequality in the laws and same sex marriage will finally be legal at the federal level, like marriage between and man and a woman is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen
-
@ultragrrl
"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
veganerd
Dec 7, 12 19:19
Post #9 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [Duffy]
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Duffy wrote:
veganerd wrote:
BarryP wrote:
I'm not so sure about that.
It's gonna happen, That shits getting struck the fuck down
I'd be surprised if they strike down Prop 8.
Prepare to be surprised sometime next spring!
enemy of epilepsy
oldandslow
Dec 7, 12 20:10
Post #10 of 56
(917 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [Duffy]
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I'd be surprised if they strike down Prop 8.
I'm wondering how the decision to hear Proposition 8 came about. The narrow ruling overturning Prop 8 was extremely uninteresting, since it only specifically dealt with California. Subsequent events in public opinion have overtaken any narrow SCOTUS decision, since a narrow ruling overturning Prop 8 is the same as refuing to hear it, while a ruling upholding Prop 8 will easily be overturned by the voters during the next election (support for gay marriage has risen to 60% in California). The only purpose for a hearing on Prop 8 would seem to be a home run attempt to invalidate ALL state bans, something that will certainly happen in the future, but is probably too big a a stretch for the SCOTUS at this point in history. Of course, they ruled on Loving v. Virginia when 90% of people opposed mixed marriage....
scorpio516
Dec 8, 12 9:47
Post #11 of 56
(852 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [Duffy]
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Duffy wrote:
veganerd wrote:
BarryP wrote:
I'm not so sure about that.
It's gonna happen, That shits getting struck the fuck down
I'd be surprised if they strike down Prop 8.
It's already been struck down twice. Each federal challenge to the law succeeded.
Duffy
Dec 8, 12 10:24
Post #12 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [scorpio516]
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scorpio516 wrote:
Duffy wrote:
veganerd wrote:
BarryP wrote:
I'm not so sure about that.
It's gonna happen, That shits getting struck the fuck down
I'd be surprised if they strike down Prop 8.
It's already been struck down twice. Each federal challenge to the law succeeded.
By the 9th circuit (in a very narrow, technical ruling). The 9th is the most overturned court. They're generally looney tunes. I think the fact that the appeal to the Supremes is coming from a 9th circuit ruling is
one
of the reasons they are even hearing it.
____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
tigermilk
Dec 8, 12 13:24
Post #13 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [oldandslow]
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I kind of agree with my wife on this. If gay marriage is ruled to have the same benefits and rights of traditional marriage, what's next? Why is gay marriage now OK? Why not bigamy, polygamy, getting married to an animal, a minor? Changes to the accepted subjective morality can lead a society down a slippery slope. Same goes for pot laws.
BarryP
Dec 8, 12 13:40
Post #14 of 56
(789 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [tigermilk]
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If gay marriage is ok to be banned, what next? Interracial marriage? Changes to the accepted subjective morality can lead society down a slippery slope. Same goes for pot laws. What next? Alcohol?
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
trail
Dec 8, 12 13:44
Post #15 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [tigermilk]
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>I kind of agree with my wife on this. If gay marriage is ruled to have the same benefits and rights of traditional marriage, what's next? Why is gay marriage now OK? Why not bigamy, polygamy, getting married to an animal, a minor? Changes to the >accepted subjective morality can lead a society down a slippery slope. Same goes for pot laws.
The slippery slope argument/fallacy works both ways. Government restriction of rights is a slippery slope towards totalitarian Naziism. (you brought up donkey-porking so it's only fair.)
Rodred
Dec 8, 12 13:46
Post #16 of 56
(786 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [BarryP]
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BarryP wrote:
If gay marriage is ok to be banned, what next? Interracial marriage?
Apple meet orange.
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
Rodred
Dec 8, 12 13:47
Post #17 of 56
(785 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [oldandslow]
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oldandslow wrote:
The Supreme Court will hear the Proposition 8 case and DOMA appeals. I am not totally sure of the logic for hearing the Prop 8 case, but it certainly should be an interesting session. Looking forward to hearing Scalia turn into a pretzel, trying to argue against state's rights in DOMA.
Are you also looking forward to the chief Justice potentially making a decision based on politics and public opinion as opposed to the law?
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
veganerd
Dec 8, 12 14:07
Post #18 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [Rodred]
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Are you also looking forward to the chief Justice potentially making a decision based on politics and public opinion as opposed to the law?
If the law is unjust and public opinion recognizes that then yes, every fucking time i want the justices to rule atgainst the unjust law.y
enemy of epilepsy
BarryP
Dec 8, 12 15:13
Post #19 of 56
(759 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [Rodred]
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Apple meet orange.
Thanks for making my point for me.
"If gay marriage is ruled to have the same benefits and rights of traditional marriage, what's next? Why is gay marriage now OK? Why not bigamy, polygamy, getting married to an animal, a minor?"
Apple meet oranges.
-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
oldandslow
Dec 10, 12 9:37
Post #20 of 56
(669 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [tigermilk]
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Why not bigamy, polygamy, getting married to an animal, a minor? Changes to the accepted subjective morality can lead a society down a slippery slope.
Because they are different? Slippery slope fallacies have been covered here a time or a thousand. There was a thread about the crucial differences between polygamy and SSM last month. The bestiality/pedophilia examples are so offbase, they don't deserve a response (Google 'consent').
TheForge
Dec 10, 12 10:25
Post #21 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [oldandslow]
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oldandslow wrote:
The Supreme Court will hear the Proposition 8 case and DOMA appeals. I am not totally sure of the logic for hearing the Prop 8 case, but it certainly should be an interesting session. Looking forward to hearing Scalia turn into a pretzel, trying to argue against state's rights in DOMA.
Interesting but needed to be done. I think the underlying reason for taking on Prop 8 is the precedents that could be set regarding states rights. A voter referendum that essentially bars a gov't granted right to a segment of society could set a huge precedent if allowed to go through. It could be used for years to come to support legalization of marijuana or any vice by referendum or even enslavement of a population based on mob rule. Personally, I don't agree with Prop 8 and find the idea vile, but I also do not like the stance the 9th Circuit Court took. I find the fact they are overturned so frequently to be a shining example of judicial activism. But again, I don't support the underlying law they abolished.
DOMA is an example of a law that should never be passed by a federal gov't and is a living example of the failure of a federal system. Such a polarizing law that really has no concensus in terms of a "general welfare" benefit should be voided. However, it does appear to be a redundancy of laws. States are not required to recipricate licenses on anything, so why marriage. I guess the details come in the form of accepting some licenses but not others. Honestly I do not know enough about the law as I have no skin in the game and have other issues I would rather deal with then culture war issues.
With that said, the majority of those who disagree with DOMA, probably supported Obamacare, and guess what, I could see this one passing for much the same reason Obamacare did. Not because of the merits of the constitution, but like Roberts stated "We do not consider whether the Act embodies sound policies. That judgment is entrusted to the Nation's elected leaders. We ask only whether Congress has the power under the Constitution to enact the challenged provisions."
Based on this precedence, I could see DOMA passing. I hope not, but we'll see. It would be poetic justice if the group that seemed to support judicial tyranny for something they wished are screwed by similar judicial tyranny? In fact, I have even heard that that was the Roberts Endgame. Legitimize the court with a controversial position taken by his biggest critics on the left on an issue that was inevitable so that he could would legitimacy to attack issues that he politically supports down the road.
(This post was
edited
by TheForge on Dec 10, 12 10:28)
vitus979
Dec 10, 12 10:50
Post #22 of 56
(630 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [oldandslow]
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There was a thread about the crucial differences between polygamy and SSM last month.
There are no
crucial differences between
p
olygamy and SSM such that SSM must be allowed on rights grounds and polygamy can be banned.
Arguing
that we're not
already on
a slippery slope when it comes to marriage is r
idiculous. We cle
arly are
, and the indicators are all around us;
academ
ic discussions over the end of marriage al
toge
ther, calls to allow
vi
rtually every t
ype of relation
ship to be
lab
el
ed "marriage," the recent introduction of the idea of temporary marriage
in Mexico, to the increasing number of people who apparently think the
government should get out of marriage altoge
ther. Heck
, the At
lantic had an article last month that argued that single people should have weddings, too.
I'm not even sure, at this point, why SSM a
dvocates argue
that there isn't a slippery slope. What have you got a
gainst pol
ygam
y? The ick factor?
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
cerveloguy
Dec 10, 12 11:00
Post #23 of 56
(617 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [tigermilk]
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"Changes to the accepted subjective morality can lead a society down a slippery slope."
Canada legalized gay marriage several years ago and the country didn't burn in a hail of fire and brimestone. Life just went on as normal the day after. Now its become a non issue. If two gays want to call themselves married let them. The only people that it makes any difference to are the divorce lawyers because now they will have more work.
oldandslow
Dec 10, 12 12:07
Post #24 of 56
(596 views)
Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [vitus979]
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When support for polygamy in society and law parallels support for gay marriage you win, until then you lose and the slippery slope must remain a fallacy. I previously put forth differences between the two which clearly explain why reality is so at odds with your argument (equal rights, role of women, entitlement programs, artificial insemination, move away from an agrarian society, etc.). The differences remain and have convinced a sizeable number of people, whether you acknowledge them or not.
vitus979
Dec 10, 12 12:13
Post #25 of 56
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Re: SCOTUS and gay marriage - game on! [oldandslow]
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When support for polygamy in society and law parallels support for gay marriage you win, until then you lose and the slippery slope must remain a fallacy.
Support for polygamy in society? That dog won
't hunt. This isn't a popularity contest, re
member? This is about
people's
rights.
The question is not app
ropriately decided by
ma
jority
vote.
B
i
gots shouldn't be allowed to deny people their rights.
You're better off just embracing that slippery slope. It's inevitable anyway
, why fight it when doing so only makes you look like a hypocrite?
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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