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IMAZ "Cheating"...?
 
What constitutes "Cheating"…?


I was at IMAZ this weekend to watch several friends race..GREAT TIME!!! Around three months ago one particular friend started posting on Instagram/FB how he was suddenly going to IMAZ. I assumed this was a charity spot since I knew it soldout in a matter of minutes. Last week I found out this person was going to race under another person's bib number. Apparently, the person who registered didn't feel like racing but didn't want his registration to go to waste and approached the presient of his tri club to see if anyone wanted it. One of my friends was offered the bib but declined, he didn't feel it was right since it was against WTC rules, the other friend accepted. Fast forward to Thursday, person flies to Phoenix, checks-in and hands over his bib. This starts sinking in and I'm starting to have some real problems with this, more so than I was having earlier in the week, probably because this is the first time I'm realizing the enormity of a WTC/IM event. As we are walking around race day, we actually run in the person who didn't feel like racing, he's jolly as Santa Claus walking around with his camera equipment….WTF!!!


As the day goes on I'm just getting pissed. Why, because this goes against WTC rules. I'm grappling with is this cheating or not. I feel it is. So I ask several people thier opinion. One response I received, "WTC has the audacity to ask for money a YEAR in advance, what happens if I get injured…money goes to waste. They make enough money they won't miss it, it's unfair they do that anyway….." My response "it's their race, they make the rules, if you don't like them or are worried about injury or life happening then you have the option not to sign up, there are plenty of other events you can do…." Another argument I received when asked their finish time of 12+ hrs.. "oh well he's a MOP, since he's not qualifying for Kona it doesn't matter. MOP/BOP don't' really matter." Again, WTF!!!! Dude really, are you fucking kidding me MOP or BOP don't matter?? Just because someone isn't qualifying for Kona doesn't mean their overall ranking in div, doesn't matter to them. Another example is the now infamous "T3" scandal…supposedly she was just a few minutes off from the 500,000 IM finisher, could you imagine if she was!!! What a mess that would have been, same goes for racing under another persons name. I don't even want to think had this person racing IMAZ been in an accident.


Now I'll be honest here, my emotions are a little involved on what to do. This person is a little bit of a pompous douche. All he ever talks about how he never gets passed on the bike and how fast he is. In fact as soon as he finished he was gloating about only 5 people passed him on the bike (yeah, he counted…WTF) what he failed to recognize was it was because everyone passed him on the swim (ok, that's me being mean, but still). This person is bragging about racing posting pics of his finishers medals including IMAZ. He's also a founding member of a group who "inspires athletes". I guess he's encouraging and inspiring athletes all over the world to partake in breaking the rules.


My question to all of you is, do you consider racing under another persons bib a form of cheating?


PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A LANCE THREAD!!!


EDIT: I want to make myself clear the actions of both original bib owner and the person who raced are equally in question. I do not know if these two people are friends or acquaintances. This transaction was facilitated by the president of their tri club, who also raced this weekend.







"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
Last edited by: KyraMorgan: Nov 20, 12 12:27
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
There are a hell of a lot of dickheads who do stuff like this in the triathlon world.You can either "out him" here on ST and let the lynch mob shame him publicly or you can let it go...


---
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
Not sure if it is "cheating" , but it is definitely wrong and a serious infraction. If you know for a fact he is encouraging others to do the same, this should be nipped in the bud and I know what I would do w/o hesitation.

Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman


 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
KyraMorgan wrote:
What constitutes "Cheating"…?


I was at IMAZ this weekend to watch several friends race..GREAT TIME!!! Around three months ago one particular friend started posting on Instagram/FB how he was suddenly going to IMAZ. I assumed this was a charity spot since I knew it soldout in a matter of minutes. Last week I found out this person was going to race under another person's bib number. Apparently, the person who registered didn't feel like racing but didn't want his registration to go to waste and approached the presient of his tri club to see if anyone wanted it. One of my friends was offered the bib but declined, he didn't feel it was right since it was against WTC rules, the other friend accepted. Fast forward to Thursday, person flies to Phoenix, checks-in and hands over his bib. This starts sinking in and I'm starting to have some real problems with this, more so than I was having earlier in the week, probably because this is the first time I'm realizing the enormity of a WTC/IM event. As we are walking around race day, we actually run in the person who didn't feel like racing, he's jolly as Santa Claus walking around with his camera equipment….WTF!!!


As the day goes on I'm just getting pissed. Why, because this goes against WTC rules. I'm grappling with is this cheating or not. I feel it is. So I ask several people thier opinion. One response I received, "WTC has the audacity to ask for money a YEAR in advance, what happens if I get injured…money goes to waste. They make enough money they won't miss it, it's unfair they do that anyway….." My response "it's their race, they make the rules, if you don't like them or are worried about injury or life happening then you have the option not to sign up, there are plenty of other events you can do…." Another argument I received when asked their finish time of 12+ hrs.. "oh well he's a MOP, since he's not qualifying for Kona it doesn't matter. MOP/BOP don't' really matter." Again, WTF!!!! Dude really, are you fucking kidding me MOP or BOP don't matter?? Just because someone isn't qualifying for Kona doesn't mean their overall ranking in div, doesn't matter to them. Another example is the now infamous "T3" scandal…supposedly she was just a few minutes off from the 500,000 IM finisher, could you imagine if she was!!! What a mess that would have been, same goes for racing under another persons name. I don't even want to think had this person racing IMAZ been in an accident.


Now I'll be honest here, my emotions are a little involved on what to do. This person is a little bit of a pompous douche. All he ever talks about how he never gets passed on the bike and how fast he is. In fact as soon as he finished he was gloating about only 5 people passed him on the bike (yeah, he counted…WTF) what he failed to recognize was it was because everyone passed him on the swim (ok, that's me being mean, but still). This person is bragging about racing posting pics of his finishers medals including IMAZ. He's also a founding member of a group who "inspires athletes". I guess he's encouraging and inspiring athletes all over the world to partake in breaking the rules.


My question to all of you is, do you consider racing under another persons bib a form of cheating?


PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A LANCE THREAD!!!


Well, it is cheating but I wouldn't turn him in. Has he done an IM before? Did the guy that ran with his bib have a good time or was he MOP or BOP? Obviously if the original purchaser has never done an IM before, he is seriously devauling the acheivement by having his name on record as completing a race that he did not enter. If original bib holder has done an IM before and the guy that ran in his place ran a slower time, there is less of a foul, but it still isn't right.

If the person that ran in his place did really well, it's a serious, serious foul but still don't rat them out. Someone else will do that for you eventually. Hell, anyone that looks him will look for event photos and see another person. They will be caught eventually.

I would not rat him out as the only thing lower than a cheat is a rat. Maybe you should just tell them how you feel and leave it at that.
Last edited by: WTFoxtrot: Nov 20, 12 11:35
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
KyraMorgan wrote:
What constitutes "Cheating"…?

Another example is the now infamous "T3" scandal…supposedly she was just a few minutes off from the 500,000 IM finisher, could you imagine if she was!!! What a mess that would have been, same goes for racing under another persons name. I don't even want to think had this person racing IMAZ been in an accident.

500K IM finisher was in Florida. I was there catching when he came in. What scandal are you referring to?
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
 
This isn't about calling him out. This is about what you consider "cheating". Anyway, didn't give enough information to figure out who it is, I was careful to be generic in my description.



"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
 
Life is too short. She should let it go!
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [WTFoxtrot] [ In reply to ]
 
 
Well, it is cheating but I wouldn't turn him in. Has he done an IM before? Did the guy that ran with his bib have a good time or was he MOP or BOP? Obviously if the original purchaser has never done an IM before, he is seriously devauling the acheivement by having his name on record as completing a race that he did not enter. If original bib holder has done and IM before and the guy that ran in his place ran a slower time, there is less of a foul, but it still isn't right.

If the person that ran in his place did really well, it's a serious, serious foul but still don't rat them out. Someone else will do that for you eventually.

I would not rat him out as the only thing lower than a cheat is a rat. Maybe you should just tell them how you feel and leave it at that.


attitude like this allowed lance to win 7 TdF...really poor showing on your part mate
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
You know how I feel about this. Ignore the idiot who says outing this behavior is worse then the cheating. Maybe he mixed those up but sadly I doubt it. From what I've seen WTC doesn't do much in these kind of situations so it's up to the tri community to police this behavior. Whatever form that takes.

__________________________________________________
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Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
I don't think that I would call it cheating but you aren't supposed to do it.

I thought someone is supposed to be in the race wearing that bib number and someone was. However, a lot of people really don't like this.

I have never done this but I did pass off my bib to my brother for a half marathon. We are both very similar in run times so to me nothing really changed. I might have run the same time as him.

So anyway, cheating? I don't really think so. But it is against the rules. (That makes more sense in my mind than it does written down...)

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Last edited by: BLeP: Nov 21, 12 3:01
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
 
We all know you're quite good at "letting it go" when it comes to cheating.

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Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
KyraMorgan wrote:
This isn't about calling him out. This is about what you consider "cheating". Anyway, didn't give enough information to figure out who it is, I was careful to be generic in my description.

It's only cheating if the original purchaser had 1) never done an IM, 2) the pinch hitter is a better athlete.

If the original purchaser is faster than the pinch hitter, it's just unethical and low class but not really cheating because he did not gain anything.
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
Definately cheating.

As mentioned your options are:

Let it go.


Turn him without a public outing.

Turn him in with a public outing.
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
KyraMorgan wrote:
This isn't about calling him out. This is about what you consider "cheating". Anyway, didn't give enough information to figure out who it is, I was careful to be generic in my description.


---

Well it is against the rules in WTC events so it is the wrong thing to do.As for cheating,I'd say no but it is a major infraction of the rules.I tell him that he is an asshole and I'd do it in front of his mates but that is just me.


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Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [haole] [ In reply to ]
 
KyraMorgan wrote:
PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A LANCE THREAD!!!



haole wrote:
attitude like this allowed lance to win 7 TdF...really poor showing on your part mate



Good work.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [GAUG3] [ In reply to ]
 
GAUG3 wrote:
500K IM finisher was in Florida. I was there catching when he came in. What scandal are you referring to?

One of the greatest threads ever on Slowtwitch: IM FL Cheater

Proud Member of Chris McDonald's 2018 Big Sexy Race Team "That which doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger"
Blog-Twitter-Instagram-Race Reports - 2018 Races: IM Florida 70.3, IM Raleigh 70.3, IM 70.3 World Championships - South Africa, IM North Carolina 70.3
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [WTFoxtrot] [ In reply to ]
 
WTFoxtrot wrote:
KyraMorgan wrote:
What constitutes "Cheating"…?


Well, it is cheating but I wouldn't turn him in. Has he done an IM before? Did the guy that ran with his bib have a good time or was he MOP or BOP? Obviously if the original purchaser has never done an IM before, he is seriously devauling the acheivement by having his name on record as completing a race that he did not enter. If original bib holder has done an IM before and the guy that ran in his place ran a slower time, there is less of a foul, but it still isn't right.

If the person that ran in his place did really well, it's a serious, serious foul but still don't rat them out. Someone else will do that for you eventually. Hell, anyone that looks him will look for event photos and see another person. They will be caught eventually.

I would not rat him out as the only thing lower than a cheat is a rat. Maybe you should just tell them how you feel and leave it at that.

Yes, the guy who raced with the Bib has done a total of 4 IM since 2010. I have the name of the original purchaser and I will check to see if he's done an IM, I believe he has. I was told he has money and just registers for IM events and if he doesn't feel like racing he has someone else race in his bib.



"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
 
BLeP wrote:
KyraMorgan wrote:
PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A LANCE THREAD!!!



haole wrote:
attitude like this allowed lance to win 7 TdF...really poor showing on your part mate



Good work.

now...im counting down for this to happen
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
KyraMorgan wrote:

Yes, the guy who raced with the Bib has done a total of 4 IM since 2010. I have the name of the original purchaser and I will check to see if he's done an IM, I believe he has. I was told he has money and just registers for IM events and if he doesn't feel like racing he has someone else race in his bib.

I see what's going on here... He's trying to get to Kona using the 12 IM finishes rule.

Now THAT is cheating.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
Why not confront the gentleman if this bothers you so much?
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [haole] [ In reply to ]
 
haole wrote:

Well, it is cheating but I wouldn't turn him in. Has he done an IM before? Did the guy that ran with his bib have a good time or was he MOP or BOP? Obviously if the original purchaser has never done an IM before, he is seriously devauling the acheivement by having his name on record as completing a race that he did not enter. If original bib holder has done and IM before and the guy that ran in his place ran a slower time, there is less of a foul, but it still isn't right.

If the person that ran in his place did really well, it's a serious, serious foul but still don't rat them out. Someone else will do that for you eventually.

I would not rat him out as the only thing lower than a cheat is a rat. Maybe you should just tell them how you feel and leave it at that.


attitude like this allowed lance to win 7 TdF...really poor showing on your part mate

Oh good, here it comes. You're right, I'm bad, you're good. Congratulations...here is the World's smallest trophy _{}_
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [KyraMorgan] [ In reply to ]
 
I have a problem that so many races don't allow you to transfer your race entry to someone else even when given plenty of notice. A person paid for a slot in the race, I think someone should be able to race in that slot even if it is not the original person who signed up. It is an entry in a computer, not hard to change to make. Charge a "nominal" transfer fee since it does require some effort (in WTC's case nominal would probably be $100...but so be it). I totally understand the no refund policy, but just don't get not being able to transfer your entry to someone else. I'm also not an RD so I could be completely missing something, maybe wave sizes changing, but it just don't seem like it would change that much. I look forward to seeing others opinions.

So is it breaking the rules,hell yeah. Is that okay because I think the rule is stupid? No...but I also don't really care if someone does it as long as they don't take away an award or qualification from someone else. Now if we are talking about banditing a race...now THAT pisses me off because it puts too many people out on a course, they are taking advantage of closures and permits that entered people had to pay for, and they generally take advantage of the race support.

I guess I equate this to making a turn on a red light when no one else is at the intersection and the light won't change. It is against the rules but it isn't hurting anyone, also nothing to brag about doing.
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [GAUG3] [ In reply to ]
 
GAUG3 wrote:
KyraMorgan wrote:
What constitutes "Cheating"…?

Another example is the now infamous "T3" scandal…supposedly she was just a few minutes off from the 500,000 IM finisher, could you imagine if she was!!! What a mess that would have been, same goes for racing under another persons name. I don't even want to think had this person racing IMAZ been in an accident.


500K IM finisher was in Florida. I was there catching when he came in. What scandal are you referring to?

Ahhhh the girl who cut the swim and run course at IMFL 3 weeks ago, this scandal!
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=50;



"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [haole] [ In reply to ]
 
X 2.

Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman


 
Re: IMAZ "Cheating"...? [WTFoxtrot] [ In reply to ]
 
WTFoxtrot wrote:
Well, it is cheating but I wouldn't turn him in. Has he done an IM before? Did the guy that ran with his bib have a good time or was he MOP or BOP? Obviously if the original purchaser has never done an IM before, he is seriously devauling the acheivement by having his name on record as completing a race that he did not enter. If original bib holder has done an IM before and the guy that ran in his place ran a slower time, there is less of a foul, but it still isn't right.

If the person that ran in his place did really well, it's a serious, serious foul but still don't rat them out. Someone else will do that for you eventually. Hell, anyone that looks him will look for event photos and see another person. They will be caught eventually.

I would not rat him out as the only thing lower than a cheat is a rat. Maybe you should just tell them how you feel and leave it at that.

If you have to start rationalizing it, it's cheating (I know that you said it's cheating, but I'm referring more to your explanation).

I think WTC is also insane to have the policy they do... but it's their event. If you don't want to follow it, don't. That's not at all negotiable (despite the argument of some clown on here recently who said otherwise).

Seeing as it's a dude and not a girl, no reason Dan will have a problem with you outting him... (PINK PINK PINK).

----
@adamwfurlong
 

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