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Re: bike on a treadmill [HXB] [ In reply to ]
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HXB wrote:
Hi, you'll see after your post my posts included thanks for the previous 2 posts which includes yours, I just happened to respond to the second person. Yesterday, with regard to my belief I came up with a problem which I thought, if true, would mean I was right and, if not, would mean I wasn't right. It involved a truck pulling a load via a rope up an incline. If the tension on that rope differed at different constant speeds then I would be right in my original assumption. I, however, didn't believe the tension would increase (ancillary friction and wind resistance eliminated), therefore I would be wrong in my original assumption.

Many of you were correct in ascertaining the true source of the problem, the force via the rear wheel to the treadmill deck. I completely understood the nature of the problem, I just didn't think that the wheel would have to maintain an equal force relative to the treadmill if it was self powered and the rider never moved, this was not a correct assumption and therefore an incorrect overall theory of the resulting energy demands of the activity

I did discuss the problem with a physics professor for a while and he said as much. Thanks to those who responded in an educated and civil manner, you were, and are correct.

now what thread am i going to read?

Tim


Tim
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Re: bike on a treadmill [jbank] [ In reply to ]
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jbank wrote:
Glad to see you weren't just trolling and came to some understanding of the physics. Are we ready to discuss the Monty Hall problem next? ;)

What's the monty hall problem?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: bike on a treadmill [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
jbank wrote:
Glad to see you weren't just trolling and came to some understanding of the physics. Are we ready to discuss the Monty Hall problem next? ;)


What's the monty hall problem?

Oh, come on now, really? In a second your going to convince me that you are trolling too ;) If your serious, I suggest you google it, there are about a bizillion good treatments including wikipedia and even a youtube video covering it to death.
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Re: bike on a treadmill [jbank] [ In reply to ]
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Nah, wasn't trolling, but the brain was too lazy (tired) to initiate a search. But no worries, wikipedia has saved the day.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: bike on a treadmill [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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In that case, glad to have helped fill a gap in your nerd portfolio. Familiarity with the Monty Hall problem helps give you street cred with the mensa crowd.
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Re: bike on a treadmill [jbank] [ In reply to ]
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Great thread...


Never heard it called the Monty Hall problem, but it's a basic stats problem. :p

Now to the question that DarkSpeedWorks posed about the spaceship....

You would need to take into account the gravity exerted by the two bodies in play here (to determine the forces at play). Those two bodies being the earth and the moon, and by using G, you would then work back to determine the acceleration of the body necessary to increase the velocity, so as to keep the body in a geo-centric orbit... And yes, I realize that the force posed by the moon is minimal but would none the less be contributory. :)

Therefore the Potential Energy is in the propellant (and yes there's PE due to the elevation from the surface), and the Kinetic Energy is used to combat gravity.
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Re: bike on a treadmill [corneliused] [ In reply to ]
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I know this is a very old post....but this is just too relevant to not try to share: http://www.treadal.com/ <--You can easily bike on your treadmill now
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Re: bike on a treadmill [rlpaviles] [ In reply to ]
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Re: bike on a treadmill [rlpaviles] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure the 11 miles per hour that is the top speed of my treadmill would be challenging.
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Re: bike on a treadmill [rlpaviles] [ In reply to ]
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Either I have missed something or the inventor of that device has missed something.
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Re: bike on a treadmill [corneliused] [ In reply to ]
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What do you think is missing? Maybe I could help? I actually tried one of their classes (and yeah it is pretty freakin hard--I couldnt do the whole thing lol)
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Re: bike on a treadmill [rlpaviles] [ In reply to ]
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In what degrees of freedom does the device hold the bike? What happens if you steer the bike? Does anything happen if you quit pedaling?
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Re: bike on a treadmill [corneliused] [ In reply to ]
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Alrighty, let me try and answer these questions the best I can! Disclaimer: I don't know all too much about the mechanics, so if any of my questions are lacking please just ask more and I will reach out to the gym and find better answers ^.^ I just was really excited to share when I saw the thread and thought you all would be just as interested and maybe it would help some of you out :)

  • The device attaches to the bottom of the treadmill with brackets; and then it also attaches to the bikes rear bolt allowing for both wheels to rotate and move as they normally would.

  • Nothing really happens if you steer the bike--since the back wheel is held in place you dont really have the option to go anywhere...although, if your front tire is sideways, you can't really get a good workout--so it also kind of challenges your form and handling a little bit. You won't fall over though--there was a guy in one of the classes that ended up turning his wheel all the way to the left adn it just went up on the edge of the treadmill--no flipping, falling or anything like that--but still not ideal cause you are getting nothing done!

  • Nothing happens if you quit pedaling. The wheels keep going though. You need to turn off the treadmill to stop the wheels entirely. You can coast if you get winded (trust me, I know this for sure lol)


Hope this sort of answers some of those questions :)
Sorry--not really prepared hahaha
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Re: bike on a treadmill [rlpaviles] [ In reply to ]
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So if nothing happens when you quit pedaling, how does it challenge you? When you do pedal, what is the source of resistance? It seems to me that you would have a huge singularity in the power vs speed curve. 1-2 w when speed is below the belt speed, and nearly infinite if you try and drive the belt above it's set speed, though this would clearly depend on the design of the treadmill. It's not clear to me this would be at all good for the treadmill motor, though again it would depend on it's design. Also, if you change the inclination of the treadmill, does the resistance change at all? I wouldn't expect it to, unless I've missed something in the design of this. I'd love to see a video showing more of the mechanics of installing the thing and what happens when someone coasts or steers.
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Re: bike on a treadmill [rlpaviles] [ In reply to ]
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rlpaviles wrote:
although, if your front tire is sideways, you can't really get a good workout
I would think for bikes with full carbon forks, turning the front wheel to much either way will result in enough lateral force that the tire will get deflected full left or right, resulting in the fork snapping off at the crown.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: bike on a treadmill [rlpaviles] [ In reply to ]
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Didn't you thrash your tires and the belt of the tread mill? From a physics perspective I don't see where the energy you are putting in can go other than to be lost as heat, think smoking car tires during a burnout. Neither bike tires or tread mill belts are designed to dissipate lots of heat which is why all the older designs in this thread don't stabilize the rear wheel directly on the treadmill. It would guess you will quickly accrue the costs of a stationary in new tire/treadmill belt repairs.
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Re: bike on a treadmill [corneliused] [ In reply to ]
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You should visit Treadal.com check out the web site. It's been tried before and now it's been done
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Re: bike on a treadmill [Treadaldoug] [ In reply to ]
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I think you would have to leave the treadmill off, and then you can get a great workout.
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Re: bike on a treadmill [Tri 2 Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Tri 2 Tri wrote:
Never heard it called the Monty Hall problem, but it's a basic stats problem. :p

Your claim that it's a basic stats problem like you're move advanced at stats, yet you've never heard it called the Monty Hall problem, I'm sorry, but those two don't mix...
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