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How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio

 

   


redhusky

Aug 4, 12 13:02

Post #1 of 23 (1664 views)
How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio Quote | Reply

This is the data
138 pounds
210 watts
22.8 mph
aero helmet, zipp 404, trisuit, little wind and relatively flat rolling circular course.
And no this isn't me....I weighed more than this 40 years ago..

I looked at the data from the thread of latest race reports with watts etc. but there didn't seem to be much data for watts and speeds in this range.
What are the opinions on how aero are non aero the rider position is based on this data?


(This post was edited by redhusky on Aug 4, 12 13:08)


rpeterson

Aug 4, 12 13:07

Post #2 of 23 (1651 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

It's okay, could be better.
______________________________________________
Trying out this twitter thing: https://twitter.com/rykpete


mayhew

Aug 4, 12 13:07

Post #3 of 23 (1651 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

My gut response is "meh". For reference that's about what I weigh. With no aero gear besides a skinsuit (road bike, 32 spoke wheels) I did 24.2 mph for 22:xx on 252 watts. 5 watts= .5kph


Dave_Ryan

Aug 4, 12 13:29

Post #4 of 23 (1627 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Same response, it's not terrible, but probably could be better. Have you run the power file through Aerolab in Golden Cheetah? Related question, what tires, tubes and pressure?

With fast wheels and tires, in the aero bars on a full tri rig with a decent aero helmet I'd expect a 138 pound rider to be rolling around 24 mph or more on 210 watts just a quick swag suggests that at sea level with reasonable but not super fast tires and tubes your rider has a CdA of around .26 or higher which is a bit below average especially for an athlete at that weight.

-Dave


(This post was edited by Dave_Ryan on Aug 4, 12 13:38)


redhusky

Aug 4, 12 13:51

Post #5 of 23 (1587 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [Dave_Ryan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Dave_Ryan wrote:
Same response, it's not terrible, but probably could be better. Have you run the power file through Aerolab in Golden Cheetah? Related question, what tires, tubes and pressure?

With fast wheels and tires, in the aero bars on a full tri rig with a decent aero helmet I'd expect a 138 pound rider to be rolling around 24 mph or more on 210 watts just a quick swag suggests that at sea level with reasonable but not super fast tires and tubes your rider has a CdA of around .26 or higher which is a bit below average especially for an athlete at that weight.

-Dave
Thanks for the feedback. I haven't used aerolab, but the tires are vittoria 21 evo cx tubulars at 100psi.


jaretj

Aug 4, 12 17:50

Post #6 of 23 (1494 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Depends on how tall you are.

I'm slightly heaver and would do 24-25 on 210 watts


EddyRoche

Aug 4, 12 18:25

Post #7 of 23 (1458 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [jaretj] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

jaretj wrote:
Depends on how tall you are.

I'm slightly heaver and would do 24-25 on 210 watts

24-25 mph on 210 watts!?

Mate, what setup are you riding? I'm trading in my gear and buying yours! Seems quick..

@EddyRoche
www.eddyroche.com
http://www.facebook.com/EddyRocheTriathlete


redhusky

Aug 4, 12 18:32

Post #8 of 23 (1444 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [jaretj] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

jaretj wrote:
Depends on how tall you are.

I'm slightly heaver and would do 24-25 on 210 watts

This is a tall female about 5-10 to 5-11. I have not seen her fit but will be checking it next week, but a big difference between 22.8 and 24.... and it seems quite a difference between 24 and 25 with similar aero gear.


Titanflexr

Aug 4, 12 18:38

Post #9 of 23 (1431 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

redhusky wrote:
This is the data
138 pounds
210 watts
22.8 mph
aero helmet, zipp 404, trisuit, little wind and relatively flat rolling circular course.
And no this isn't me....I weighed more than this 40 years ago..

I looked at the data from the thread of latest race reports with watts etc. but there didn't seem to be much data for watts and speeds in this range.
What are the opinions on how aero are non aero the rider position is based on this data?

With a strong aero position I'd expect 23.5-24mph on those watts. Decent position, not great.


__________________________________________________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.


rruff

Aug 4, 12 18:50

Post #10 of 23 (1404 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Elevation?
Watts at the crank or hub?
What's the bike? Aerobars?


redhusky

Aug 4, 12 19:00

Post #11 of 23 (1390 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [rruff] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

rruff wrote:
Elevation?
Watts at the crank or hub?
What's the bike? Aerobars?

quarq, stock felt b10


FatandSlow

Aug 4, 12 19:14

Post #12 of 23 (1376 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

redhusky wrote:
This is the data
138 pounds
210 watts
22.8 mph
aero helmet, zipp 404, trisuit, little wind and relatively flat rolling circular course.
And no this isn't me....I weighed more than this 40 years ago..

I looked at the data from the thread of latest race reports with watts etc. but there didn't seem to be much data for watts and speeds in this range.
What are the opinions on how aero are non aero the rider position is based on this data?

Where the hell is Jack Mott when we need him?

If my pea-brain is working (and it probable isn't), I think Jack finally broke an hour for 40k on 225-230 watts. 6'3" and 160ish. I'm assuming you're talking about an hour effort. So, if a pound is worth 4 seconds for a flat 40k, your example should be 88 seconds faster, but with some loss for the lower wattage.

So, my "guess" (and that's all it is) is, on a flat, low wind course, is a tad over 25mph, with good tires, wheels (disc on back) aero helmet, no gloves, shoe covers, etc.


redhusky

Aug 4, 12 19:29

Post #13 of 23 (1360 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [FatandSlow] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

FatandSlow wrote:
redhusky wrote:
This is the data
138 pounds
210 watts
22.8 mph
aero helmet, zipp 404, trisuit, little wind and relatively flat rolling circular course.
And no this isn't me....I weighed more than this 40 years ago..

I looked at the data from the thread of latest race reports with watts etc. but there didn't seem to be much data for watts and speeds in this range.
What are the opinions on how aero are non aero the rider position is based on this data?


Where the hell is Jack Mott when we need him?

If my pea-brain is working (and it probable isn't), I think Jack finally broke an hour for 40k on 225-230 watts. 6'3" and 160ish. I'm assuming you're talking about an hour effort. So, if a pound is worth 4 seconds for a flat 40k, your example should be 88 seconds faster, but with some loss for the lower wattage.

So, my "guess" (and that's all it is) is, on a flat, low wind course, is a tad over 25mph, with good tires, wheels (disc on back) aero helmet, no gloves, shoe covers, etc.
I don't know how to do the calculations, but on a relative flat course II might buy 88 seconds slower with 20 less watts but not faster.


rruff

Aug 4, 12 19:31

Post #14 of 23 (1359 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

At sea level I get right around a CdA of .27.

I'd put that in the piss poor range if she is a serious rider. I manage a .24 @172 lbs with old and cheap equipment.


RChung

Aug 5, 12 1:17

Post #15 of 23 (1261 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

redhusky wrote:
This is a tall female about 5-10 to 5-11. I have not seen her fit but will be checking it next week

You're checking her fit for what?


redhusky

Aug 5, 12 12:27

Post #16 of 23 (1109 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [RChung] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

?
RChung wrote:
redhusky wrote:

This is a tall female about 5-10 to 5-11. I have not seen her fit but will be checking it next week


You're checking her fit for what?

I do know she recently got this as her first tri bike and maybe her fitter knowing this did not but her in a very aggressive position..... I do know after being on ST for a few months that I will probably find that her seat is too high :) ... I'm not a bike fitter so all I can do is recommend another visit to the fitter if I think her position looks like she should be delivering newspapers. Any recommendations based on the info?


RChung

Aug 5, 12 12:39

Post #17 of 23 (1096 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

redhusky wrote:
?
RChung wrote:
redhusky wrote:

This is a tall female about 5-10 to 5-11. I have not seen her fit but will be checking it next week


You're checking her fit for what?


I do know she recently got this as her first tri bike and maybe her fitter knowing this did not but her in a very aggressive position..... I do know after being on ST for a few months that I will probably find that her seat is too high :) ... I'm not a bike fitter so all I can do is recommend another visit to the fitter if I think her position looks like she should be delivering newspapers. Any recommendations based on the info?

Most fitters are looking for positions that the rider can (semi-)comfortably maintain for the duration of a race. If this is her first TT/Tri bike that's almost certainly so. So I'd say that *in that context* a CdA of .27 m^2 is not as horrendous as some of the folks here would say. It'd be a different story if she'd been racing for a while and had gone to an aero expert to help her minimize her drag. In that case, .27 m^2 is pretty much into parachute territory.


Flanagan

Aug 5, 12 12:46

Post #18 of 23 (1074 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Not very...


jaretj

Aug 5, 12 15:33

Post #19 of 23 (1009 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [EddyRoche] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm really small

Don't trade in your gear unless you can ride a 48cm P2 with Jet 90/90 650's


EddyRoche

Aug 5, 12 15:49

Post #20 of 23 (998 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [jaretj] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That explains it! Haha, 54cm might be a bit of a tight squeeze for me!

Still amazes me how fast you manage to go on 210w! That's awesome

@EddyRoche
www.eddyroche.com
http://www.facebook.com/EddyRocheTriathlete


jaretj

Aug 5, 12 16:01

Post #21 of 23 (983 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [EddyRoche] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

This is from a really flat Oly distance race:

Duration: 1:00:53
Work: 740 kJ
TSS: 88.7 (intensity factor 0.935)
Norm Power: 206
VI: 1.02
Pw:HR: n/a
Pa:HR: n/a
Distance: 24.914 mi
..............Min Max Avg
Power: 0 521 202 watts
Cadence: 40 124 83 rpm
Speed: 4.5 28.3 24.6 mph
Pace 2:07 13:14 2:26 min/mi
Hub Torque: 0 224 51 lb-in
Crank Torque: 0 693 207 lb-in

I'm short because my legs are short and have a really low seat so I don't have much exposed to the headwind


ericlambi

Aug 5, 12 16:55

Post #22 of 23 (945 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [redhusky] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I did 24.45mph on 207W at my last flat triathlon. I am 5'4.5" and 123lbs though.


redhusky

Aug 5, 12 17:14

Post #23 of 23 (924 views)
Re: How aero is this based on the speed/watts ratio [ericlambi] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

ericlambi wrote:
I did 24.45mph on 207W at my last flat triathlon. I am 5'4.5" and 123lbs though.

Thanks for the input. It is consistent with other poster comments. It looks like there could be position improvements.


(This post was edited by redhusky on Aug 6, 12 8:18)

   
 
 
 



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