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A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul
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Rodred
Jul 12, 12 11:35
Post #1 of 22
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A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul
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When I heard about this story yesterday it got me wondering if the family can go after the government , from city to state to federal, for not enforcing the immigration laws.
Reading a little more deeply into the story one discovers, however, that the lack of a driver’s license is the least of it. By his own account, Viveros-Colorado was suffering from a physical ailment that led to the accident. He shouldn’t have been driving, with or without a driver’s license.
Moreover, it turns out that Viveros-Colorado entered the United States illegally more than a decade ago. He is one of those whom the Star Tribune refers to as “undocumented.” (The Star Tribune reports that Viveros-Colorado’s “sister, whom he had called after the crash, told police that Viveros-Colorado was an undocumented immigrant who was in the United States illegally, according to the complaint.”)
In this case, the lack of documentation includes a missing driver’s license, though Viveros-Colorado was convicted of drunk driving in 2001 and was convicted this past April for driving without a license. That run-in with the authorities cost him $100.
http://www.twincities.com/...by-suv-remembered-at
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
nhunter344
Jul 12, 12 11:54
Post #2 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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I would assume that the local and state level courts would absolve then as immigration is supposed to be Federal responsibility.
I have no idea what they would do at the Federal level.
Duffy
Jul 12, 12 11:58
Post #3 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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"When I heard about this story yesterday it got me wondering if the family can go after the government , from city to state to federal, for not enforcing the immigration laws."
Dude, that is the funniest thing I've read in a loooonnnnnnng time.
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"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
veganerd
Jul 12, 12 12:05
Post #4 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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I doubt it. It would have happened had he been here legally or not. im sure we can dig up news stories of visitors to this country accidentally killing citizens but I wouldnt see that as an argument against tourism. Im far more concerned with his drunk driving.
enemy of epilepsy
big kahuna
Jul 12, 12 12:58
Post #5 of 22
(1155 views)
Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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Rodred wrote:
When I heard about this story yesterday it got me wondering if the family can go after the government , from city to state to federal, for not enforcing the immigration laws.
Reading a little more deeply into the story one discovers, however, that the lack of a driver’s license is the least of it. By his own account, Viveros-Colorado was suffering from a physical ailment that led to the accident. He shouldn’t have been driving, with or without a driver’s license.
Moreover, it turns out that Viveros-Colorado entered the United States illegally more than a decade ago. He is one of those whom the Star Tribune refers to as “undocumented.” (The Star Tribune reports that Viveros-Colorado’s “sister, whom he had called after the crash, told police that Viveros-Colorado was an undocumented immigrant who was in the United States illegally, according to the complaint.”)
In this case, the lack of documentation includes a missing driver’s license, though Viveros-Colorado was convicted of drunk driving in 2001 and was convicted this past April for driving without a license. That run-in with the authorities cost him $100.
http://www.twincities.com/...by-suv-remembered-at
I was wondering who was going to bring up Clarissa Grime and Viveros-Colorado. Isn't Minny Hopeless (MSP) one a those "sanctuary cities?" That's working out well, I think.
Rodred
Jul 12, 12 13:31
Post #6 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [veganerd]
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veganerd wrote:
I doubt it. It would have happened had he been here legally or not. im sure we can dig up news stories of visitors to this country accidentally killing citizens but I wouldnt see that as an argument against tourism. Im far more concerned with his drunk driving.
No he would have been deported at an earlier date so he wouldnt have been there to kill her. Now he may have killed someone else in his home country but it shouldnt have happened here. its not as if they didnt know he was illegal.
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
veganerd
Jul 12, 12 13:55
Post #7 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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Now he may have killed someone else in his home country but it shouldnt have happened here.
is there a difference if he killed a person here or in another country?
enemy of epilepsy
Rodred
Jul 12, 12 14:29
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [veganerd]
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Yes. He shouldnt have been here. If he hadn't have been here that girl would more than likely still be alive. It's pretty simple actually.
I am sure that girls family feels there is a very big difference.
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
Duffy
Jul 12, 12 14:33
Post #9 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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"The illegal"?
Rather dehumanizing terminology, don't you think?
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"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
nhunter344
Jul 12, 12 14:33
Post #10 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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Its also a case of not only should he not be here, but also a case of having multiple opportunities to remove him and not doing so.
malte
Jul 12, 12 14:37
Post #11 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [veganerd]
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veganerd wrote:
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Now he may have killed someone else in his home country but it shouldnt have happened here.
is there a difference if he killed a person here or in another country?
A couple of days ago, there was a discussion in the main forum about Andrew Starykowicz' unfortunate experience in the UAE. Part of this was his account of his night in jail, and how one of his cell mates was in there because he had been rear-ended by a local sheik. Apparently, the line of reasoning in the UAE is that foreigners are always at fault for an accident, because after all, had they not been there, the accident wouldn't have happened. The good people of slowtwitchia went all bezerk at the primitiveness of a society that fosters such a line of reasoning...
Cheers,
malte
Rodred
Jul 12, 12 14:46
Post #12 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Duffy]
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Duffy wrote:
"The illegal"?
Rather dehumanizing terminology, don't you think?
Nope.
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
Duffy
Jul 12, 12 15:01
Post #13 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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Rodred wrote:
Duffy wrote:
"The illegal"?
Rather dehumanizing terminology, don't you think?
Nope.
Look, let's stipulate that this particular incident is tragic and could very well have been prevented if gubment hacks did their job.
That being said (and I am in no way a PC leftist whiner trying to change the language (just a guy who has
a lot of friends
who are in this country illegally (all of whom are better "citizens" than those sitting around waiting for a piece of "Obama's stash"))), one of my employees always uses the term "illegal" when describing someone who looks mexican (even though he has no way of knowing their status) and it just irritates me. "Illegal Alien" does not bother me because that is an accurate term. Just plain "illegal" does dehumanize those who are here without permission.
Just a pet peeve. You can call them beaners if you want. I won't lose sleep over it. It just kind of makes you sound a little racist.
Flame away.
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"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
Rodred
Jul 12, 12 15:12
Post #14 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Duffy]
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Well I am calling an actual person here illegally an illegal while your employee is just stereotyping and being a dick. I can understand why your employee would rub you the wrong way because that bugs the shit out of me too. The term "illegal" is nothing more than a shorter version of illegal alien in my world since we know this to be the case with this person.
I would never call him a beaner. Racist would me calling him a name because of his skin color or origin. I am calling him something based on his breaking of the law and murdering someone.
I am sympathetic to those trying to actually become citizens as I have helped three people study for their citizenship tests. Two were Mexican and one Russian. (Yes the Russian was female and yes she is hot as hell.) I am not sympathetic to people like the killer from the story. Compare his story to that of the family that he just destroyed.
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
(This post was
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by Rodred on Jul 12, 12 15:17)
Duffy
Jul 12, 12 15:19
Post #15 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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one Russian. Yes the Russian was female and yes she is hot as hell.
You're excused.
Like I said, it's not that big of a deal to me. Also, the guy in the story is a piece of shit.
It's just a term I hear a lot (I work in an industry full of, um, characters). The people (that I know) who use that term are raving lunatic racists, so whenever I hear it used that's what comes to mind.
I have no (other) reason to believe that you are racist. I apologize for implying it.
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"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
Rodred
Jul 12, 12 15:30
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Duffy]
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I didn't take it personally because I understood having been around similar people..
~
“The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations.
Glade Runner
Jul 12, 12 15:34
Post #17 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Duffy]
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Duffy wrote:
"The illegal"?
Rather dehumanizing terminology, don't you think?
We prefer "legally challenged."
-La Raza Unida
It's simple, but it isn't easy.
Duffy
Jul 12, 12 15:49
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Glade Runner]
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I call this an "undocumented firearm".
____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
oldandslow
Jul 12, 12 16:09
Post #19 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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When I read the story I felt sorry about a tragic car accident, I truly can't fathom why a person would see it as anything else.
mopdahl
Jul 12, 12 19:13
Post #20 of 22
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [Rodred]
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Wow, hard to believe why you would be single, bitter, and destined for a life of solitude with such thought process such as this. You seem like such a catch.
Duffy wrote:
"The illegal"?
Rather dehumanizing terminology, don't you think?
Nope.
____________
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” John Rogers
japarker24
Jul 12, 12 19:25
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [mopdahl]
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mopdahl wrote:
Wow, hard to believe why you would be single, bitter, and destined for a life of solitude with such thought process such as this. You seem like such a catch.
Duffy wrote:
"The illegal"?
Rather dehumanizing terminology, don't you think?
Nope.
Nice of you to step up on your soapbox.
BTW, he's not the only one who would have answered the question in that way.
------------------------------------------------------------
2x IM Finisher. Only 10 more to go!
mopdahl
Jul 12, 12 19:31
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Re: A question about the girl killed by the illegal in St Paul [japarker24]
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The Military & History Channel shows lots of historical film clips of thousands of Stalinists, Nazis, KKK members, et al all marching in lockstep sharing similar ideals. I'm sure they thought they were right as well.
Just because you get a few mouth breathers agreeing, doesn't mean that their thought processes are valid.
But nice of you to drop in to protect a fellow fly-catcher.
____________
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” John Rogers
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