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TDF Stage 11 (Spoiler alert)

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xtremrun

Jul 13, 12 7:31

Post #151 of 153 (282 views)

Re: TDF Stage 11 (Spoiler alert) [matto] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

matto wrote:

xtremrun wrote:

a) Easy internet tough guy. Who pissed in your cheerios this morning?

b) I was serious

c) Your post is not exactly clear. "What I saw from Sky today is *exactly* what we saw with US Postal/Discovery". The word exactly even has asterisks around it. Hence why I asked for clarification.

a) sorry it came across that way. Not intended.

b) I understood that - I tried to clarify

c) It was not my post - I was just agreeing with it.

jdw

Jul 13, 12 7:33

Post #152 of 153 (278 views)

Re: TDF Stage 11 (Spoiler alert) [alexaqui] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

alexaqui wrote:

I get what you are saying; Sky does indeed have talented super domestiques. What was really shocking to me, though, was to see other super domestiques and even GC Tour contenders getting blown away. There was almost no one left by the time Rogers and Porte were done with their pulls. If I'm not mistaken, only Nibali and Shleck could match the pace set by the domestiques. People like Menchov, etc. were completely blown away. I just struggle a bit that no one else could keep up with that train.

Yeah, well, we'll see what happens. On the other side of the coin, you need to remember that Sky has done their rider hiring kind of like BMC: pay for the best. Rogers is a three-time world time trial champion. Sure, that was a good few years ago. But if his job description says, "you are responsible for pulling at critical points in the stage and decimating as much of the field as possible," well no one's going to argue he's not well-suited to those specific efforts. This is what the Liquigas train did in the Giro; this is what Fabian did before climbs when he was no longer defending his own yellow; this is how Saxo lined up Contador countless times; this is what VDV did for Hesjedal in this Giro.

Menchov getting popped is not really a surprise. Notwithstanding his Giro win a few years ago, he consistently uses a certain diesel-engine riding style: slower, steady, and such that one is uncertain if he is choosing not to attack or simply cannot. This was no more obvious than when Contador won the Giro and Menchov was with Servetto. Generally we weren't sure if the GC favorites were racing for second and didn't care to respond to Contador, or they simply couldn't. However, even when Scarponi would muster a response, Menchov and others would still fall off. I don't think using Menchov as a benchmark is totally reasonable here. Of course people like Menchov fell off. Sastre would have fallen off too, as he often did.

Don't forget that 22yo Thibaut who hopped right onto Froome's wheel, and that VdB who launched an attack just before Nibali. Who is that Belgian, anyway? And why is Tejay so much stronger than Cadel? I guess they've all gone Postal... =/

nedbraden

Jul 13, 12 7:43

Post #153 of 153 (263 views)

Re: TDF Stage 11 (Spoiler alert) [cartsman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

cartsman wrote:

nedbraden wrote:

Classic response, start off by bagging on the people I used for comparison,

Wait, so you weren't bagging on them yourself? Comparing Sky supporters to LA supporters was a compliment was it?

Nope, I was simply pointing out the similarities in what they are doing, you are claiming that most LA fans knew nothing about cycling. Of course that makes it worse for you staunch Sky defenders since it means you guys know as much as those fans! LOL

Quote:

then tout the Wiggins fans as being very knowledgable and dismiss any chance they can be dirty.

You skipped the bit where I said I wanted to see them answer all the questions about Leinders and publish all their data then?

That's not saying they could be dirty, that is just saying you wish they would do more to shut us up.

Quote:

All the while not really proving that what I said was actually wrong.

You can't prove it wrong because the posts in defense of Sky/Wiggins here and on various cycling boards prove I ham right. Hell, Sky/Wiggins are even doing and saying the same things as LA/Postal did back then. Angry responses to questions about doping, talking about hard work, dedication, sacrifice, better training methods, etc. as some sort of proof that they should not be questioned.

And you can't prove that there is anything dodgy going on at Sky beyond your apparent hate for them. Wiggins gave an angry response on this occasion, but he's also dealt very eloquently with the doping questions in the past. The rest of the team aren't saying they shouldn't be questioned - Brailsford has talked to the press about the Leinders situation and what they're doing about it, he's talked to the press about them publishing all their data and holding an open session to answer all questions about their training methods and anti-doping stance.

I get that you don't like them. I get that you think they're doping. I disagree with you, but that's life. Just don't assume that anybody who disagrees with you is some kind of idiot fanboy who is supporting Sky through blind love and ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

Nice job claiming I don't like sky or hate them. If you do that you can just write off anything I say as being a "hater.". Oops, that's just what LA fans were doing back in the Postal days. Thanks for proving me correct!

No, sky has done precisely what Postal did back in their day.

I don't assume, I just look at what they actually write and if the suit fits...

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