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Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout?

 

   


last tri in 83

Jul 9, 12 7:55

Post #1 of 9 (673 views)
Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? Quote | Reply

Quote:
The Obama Administration defends the cost of the auto bailout on economic grounds. The President argues that providing the money was necessary to prevent an economic catastrophe. But even if government intervention for the limited purpose of providing post-bankruptcy financing was deemed necessary due to the illiquidity of credit markets at the time, there was still no rationale for diverting tens of billions of taxpayer dollars (including taxes paid by the employees of the UAW’s lower-paid competitors) to the UAW. The preferences given to the UAW account for the entire net cost of the bailout. The bailout would have cost $26.5 billion less had the UAW been treated like GM’s and Chrysler’s other creditors. Instead, the Administration violated basic principles of bankruptcy law and transferred that money to the UAW—at taxpayer expense.

http://www.heritage.org/...g-union-compensation

I'm having trouble dealing with this with anything except seething rage. Someone take me to a happy place and tell me again why this action by the administration was not corruption and was a good thing.

_____________________________________________
To err is human, to forgive, canine


Duffy

Jul 9, 12 9:02

Post #2 of 9 (629 views)
Re: Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? [last tri in 83] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Be happy that somebody is actually looking into where all that money went. Maybe 60 Minutes will do an exposé? Ha!


____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."


STP

Jul 9, 12 10:17

Post #3 of 9 (581 views)
Re: Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? [last tri in 83] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm not going to stick up for the mechanics of the bailout and I am certain I can not make you happy about it. But, I think there are a couple factors missing from the calculations in the article you cite. First, the UAW was a creditor and a huge one. They did get more than other creditors did but, while in theory all creditors are to be treated equally in bankruptcy the reality is that in any bankruptcy, deals are cut and relative negotiating power determines who gets what. The UAW took stock to fund future benefit liabilities so its not exactly a risk free deal for them. The UAW did have a friend in the White House but they also had huge leverage which the general unsecured creditors did not have. It should be pointed out that the UAW and Ford cut a similar deal with no bankruptcy and no White House help.


The key fact is that the money (really stock in "New" GM - I don't think any cash changed hands) that went to the UAW was for benefits, part to the VEBA for healthcare and the rest to shore up pensions. The government was on the hook for at least part of the pension benefits if no deal was done and cutting off the health insurance for 100,000+ UAW workers would not have been cost free to the government either. To get the total cost (and I agree it is nowhere near "0"), you have to factor in the liabilites the governement avoided by doing this deal. Had the pension obligations been written off, I'm pretty sure a huge chunk of the liablitly would have shifted to the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation which is basically the US Governement and if that happened, the liablitiy would have been more than the $23B cost of the bailout. That does not even factor in the health insurance costs.


Old Hickory

Jul 9, 12 11:00

Post #4 of 9 (567 views)
Re: Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? [last tri in 83] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

This was simply the POTUS picking the winners and losers. For this, we should all be mad. But you can look at the bright side, Obama has set the precedent for the next Republican POTUS to abuse the laws, as well.

This also goes for federal loans, executive orders, etc. Welcome to Wild West.


JSA

Jul 9, 12 11:05

Post #5 of 9 (559 views)
Re: Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? [STP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

STP wrote:
I'm not going to stick up for the mechanics of the bailout and I am certain I can not make you happy about it. But, I think there are a couple factors missing from the calculations in the article you cite. First, the UAW was a creditor and a huge one. They did get more than other creditors did but, while in theory all creditors are to be treated equally in bankruptcy the reality is that in any bankruptcy, deals are cut and relative negotiating power determines who gets what. The UAW took stock to fund future benefit liabilities so its not exactly a risk free deal for them. The UAW did have a friend in the White House but they also had huge leverage which the general unsecured creditors did not have. It should be pointed out that the UAW and Ford cut a similar deal with no bankruptcy and no White House help.

Quote:

I agree with everything you said and this illustrates why GM should not have been bailed out.
_______________________________________________

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR


STP

Jul 9, 12 11:46

Post #6 of 9 (534 views)
Re: Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? [JSA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Ford benefited greatly by having the Ford family's fortune and control of the company on the line. All 3 companies saw this coming but Ford was the only one with muscle on its Board and within is ownership (the Ford family) who were actually scared enough about losing to act boldly. They were scared shitless of Henry Ford's ghost coming back to haunt them forever if they lost his company so they made some really ballsy moves and made managment face up to the coming crisis and take steps to solidify their financials. Frankly, the owners of GM and Chrysler, along with the idiots who continued to lend them money without cracking the whip, got what they deserved. That part of this mess was capitalism at its best (and it did not happen to the banks, that is where the real crime is in the bailout saga). "Moral Hazard" played out perfectly for the stockholders and lenders. They lost almost everything. The UAW was just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to get is bacon saved.

GM and Chrysler was a sideshow. If you really want to get pissed, look at the banks.


MJuric

Jul 9, 12 11:48

Post #7 of 9 (531 views)
Re: Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? [JSA] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I agree with everything you said and this illustrates why GM should not have been bailed out.

The problem is that the reason GM was bailed out was not because GM was to big to fail, but because the UAW was to big to fail. We could have let GM go belly up and the end effect would have been next to nothing on the UAW. Their pension would have been covered by the tax payers and you can bet that their health care would have been covered in some way as well. Between union benefits and Unemployment most of them would have enjoyed two years off work with health care paid and pensions not touched at the expense of the tax payer.

Bailing GM out was simply a "Lesser of two evils" at the moment, but one that we will still end up deciding again in the future I'm afraid.

~Matt





last tri in 83

Jul 9, 12 12:57

Post #8 of 9 (507 views)
Re: Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? [Old Hickory] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

How is this not corruption?

_____________________________________________
To err is human, to forgive, canine


AnthonyS

Jul 10, 12 22:47

Post #9 of 9 (429 views)
Re: Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? [last tri in 83] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

last tri in 83 wrote:
Quote:
The Obama Administration defends the cost of the auto bailout on economic grounds. The President argues that providing the money was necessary to prevent an economic catastrophe. But even if government intervention for the limited purpose of providing post-bankruptcy financing was deemed necessary due to the illiquidity of credit markets at the time, there was still no rationale for diverting tens of billions of taxpayer dollars (including taxes paid by the employees of the UAW’s lower-paid competitors) to the UAW. The preferences given to the UAW account for the entire net cost of the bailout. The bailout would have cost $26.5 billion less had the UAW been treated like GM’s and Chrysler’s other creditors. Instead, the Administration violated basic principles of bankruptcy law and transferred that money to the UAW—at taxpayer expense.


http://www.heritage.org/...g-union-compensation

I'm having trouble dealing with this with anything except seething rage. Someone take me to a happy place and tell me again why this action by the administration was not corruption and was a good thing.

You just gotta laugh. This is a direct result of having the average American become a blithering idiot with their hands out begging for money. You can't be mad because you are smarter than average. Make a plan to counter this kind of stupidity. Start today. Do not deviate from your plan until real changes are made and it is warranted. Really the situation is dire and the average person is incapable of seeing the ton of bricks about to fall on them. It's like watching an episode of Benny Hill, but on a much larger stage.
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You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.

   
 
 
 



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