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Was there a death at CDA today?
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DuIt
Jun 28, 12 12:42
Post #51 of 65
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Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [devashish_paul]
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Well said!
MrsTiki
Jun 28, 12 13:12
Post #52 of 65
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Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [h2ofun]
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As a slower swimmer, I can assure you that wave starts are much worse than mass starts.
In a wave start, I not only get pummeled by the faster swimmers starting in waves behind me, but I also have to work my own way past the slower swimmers in waves in front of me.
In a mass start, I self seed. I stay back and off to the outside. Let the faster folks fight it out in front of me. No one swims over me, no one tries to claw my eyes out.
I had a wonderful swim at Honu in a mass start - clear water the whole time. At Honolulu Olympic I was punched and kicked and swam over in my wave start based on age. Not by people in my own wave, but by those behind us that were sprinting past us.
And as a fast swimmer, I can't imagine the wave start would be that much fun for them either. Unless they were in the first wave.
I think wave start by estimated swim finish time would be safer? This info could be required on the entry form (much like how some runs ask for proof of time) and you can then be seeded for a wave swim start.
atl_runner
Jun 28, 12 13:16
Post #53 of 65
(1524 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [M.E.A.T.]
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M.E.A.T. wrote:
The water went "down the wrong pipe" and some of it must have gotten onto my vocal cords because I immediately had a total laryngospasm. I went from breathing just fine to not being able to move any air at all. I tried harder and harder to get any bit of air in but my larynx was having none of it. Getting frantic, I tapped a swimmer next to me and made
I've had laryngospasm happen to me about 4 times while running. It is terrifying enough on dry land. Mine are brought on by dust or heavy particles in the air. Tell tale throat tickle comes on, forces a cough, then BAM.. closed. About 30 seconds later, it relaxes, I gather my wits about me, and continue on. Sucks, but I know how to deal with it. First time it happened, I thought I was a goner for sure. If that happens in the water, that would be a worst case scenario.
As a side note, I actually put that I am susceptible to
laryngospasm on the back of running bibs, or wherever it asks if you have a medical condition. My issues are usually limited to spring, summer, and fall.
h2ofun
Jun 28, 12 13:41
Post #54 of 65
(1491 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [MrsTiki]
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MrsTiki wrote:
As a slower swimmer, I can assure you that wave starts are much worse than mass starts.
In a wave start, I not only get pummeled by the faster swimmers starting in waves behind me, but I also have to work my own way past the slower swimmers in waves in front of me.
In a mass start, I self seed. I stay back and off to the outside. Let the faster folks fight it out in front of me. No one swims over me, no one tries to claw my eyes out.
I had a wonderful swim at Honu in a mass start - clear water the whole time. At Honolulu Olympic I was punched and kicked and swam over in my wave start based on age. Not by people in my own wave, but by those behind us that were sprinting past us.
And as a fast swimmer, I can't imagine the wave start would be that much fun for them either. Unless they were in the first wave.
I think wave start by estimated swim finish time would be safer? This info could be required on the entry form (much like how some runs ask for proof of time) and you can then be seeded for a wave swim start.
Since I am the last wave of males, I have never had the issue of faster swimmers catching me. And as for passing slower swimmers, never been an issue, I just swim around them.
.
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dcsxtri10
Jun 28, 12 14:04
Post #55 of 65
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Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [M.E.A.T.]
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Chris,
You may want to check out NEJM 2012; 366 2102-2110 .... you will see what you are describing as a low severity non-fatal drowning event (including the laryngospasm) ..... plus a whole lot more.
Dave
RexKwonDo
Jun 28, 12 17:18
Post #56 of 65
(1341 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [dcsxtri10]
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Doesn't seem to be related to the mass start, according to
this account
.
"Martin, from Los Angeles, said he and Murphy started in the back of the pack, waiting for the swarm to get going, "so we wouldn't be run over."
When the first waves of swimmers were gone, the two headed out."
M.E.A.T.
Jun 28, 12 19:04
Post #57 of 65
(1252 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [dcsxtri10]
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Dave,
Thanks, I'll look that up at work tomorrow.
As a side note...I survived the swim at the Thursday night sprint Tri this evening! (not without some anxiety, though).
Chris
pennib
Jun 28, 12 19:22
Post #58 of 65
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Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [RexKwonDo]
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I have done CDA several times and one thing struck me about this year that was vastly different than prior years and I'm wondering if anyone else had the same thoughts.
We went down to the lake on Saturday evening and saw the fences all set out on the beach and thought "that can't possibly be the swim start" they have always used the entire beach in the past and filled up the beach. This year, there were more athletes and a narrower start. The entire course was shifted left and the beach was narrowed to about half the width of prior starts. Some people went around the fence to get a clear start.
We also heard a lot of complaining from athletes who had done the race before about the start.
Anyone else have this same impression?
dcsxtri10
Jun 29, 12 7:49
Post #59 of 65
(1095 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [pennib]
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The entire course was shifted left and the beach was narrowed to about half the width of prior starts.
________
I noticed the same thing as the start used to extend to the large pine tree further down the beach .... the result was more compression early in the swim and a lot more congestion early. The only problem is that starting at that tree makes for a significantly longer swim to the first buoy .... if they would do an in the water start and adjust the line so it is equal distance to the first TURN buoy from that pine tree, I personally think it would much decrease the compression effect as you could just swim at that buoy and not be distance penalized and things would sort out better. Anyway .... just my thoughts. Clearly they narrowed the start this year.
Dave
(This post was
edited
by dcsxtri10 on Jun 29, 12 8:21)
pennib
Jun 29, 12 8:15
Post #60 of 65
(1061 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [dcsxtri10]
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I think if you triangulated that distance you would see that the start on the far end of the beach is actually shorter by about 30 yards. The course is slightly angled so you should be able to hit that turn in a shorter distance.
coopdog
Jun 29, 12 8:19
Post #61 of 65
(1050 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [dcsxtri10]
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dcsxtri10 wrote:
The entire course was shifted left and the beach was narrowed to about half the width of prior starts.
________
I noticed the same thing as the start used to extend to the large pine tree further down the beach .... the result was more compression early in the swim and a lot more congestion early. The only problem is that starting at that tree makes for a significantly longer swim to the first buoy .... if they would do an in the water start and adjust the line so it is equal distance to the first buoy from that pine tree, I personally think it would much decrease the compression effect as you could just swim at that buoy and not be distance penalized and things would sort out better. Anyway .... just my thoughts. Clearly they narrowed the start this year.
Dave
Not to split hairs but this actually was the same as last year. It was 2010 when you could use pretty much the whole beach.
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dcsxtri10
Jun 29, 12 8:26
Post #62 of 65
(1032 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [coopdog]
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Not to split hairs but this actually was the same as last year. It was 2010 when you could use pretty much the whole beach.
______________________________________________
I'm sure you're correct ... I didn't do CDA in 2011. This year was CDA #6 for me and the first time I recall not being able to use the whole beach .... I am getting old and senile though so maybe there were other years as well ... but I don't think so
Dave
Scott Allen
Jun 29, 12 11:03
Post #63 of 65
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Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [dcsxtri10]
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I noticed that same thing and I also noticed the kayaks and boats that angle you back toward the bouy line were in pretty close to the beach which forced you back in much quicker. I actually had pretty clean water for the first 2-300 yards then it felt like I had people everywhere around me. I kept running into rows of swimmers. It was by far the most contact I've experienced in an ironman and the only time I've felt panicked in the water. In my opinion a wave start or more room to start would have made this much more enjoyable.
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AKCrafty
Jun 29, 12 12:07
Post #64 of 65
(912 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [Scott Allen]
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I just watched the ITU Madrid race on tv and noticed something that may help congestion. The only bouys on course were the turn bouys. From my 15 years of racing, I experience the most congestion at bouys (aside from the actual start line). What about less bouys on the course?
Another thing that
may
help is instead of having the shortest line to the first bouy be at one end of the start area, have it be more towards the middle. This could lead to more 'pacelines' at the front of the race and not everyone racing to get to one line.
As a faster swimmer and a male 40-44 athlete, I'm getting tired of being one of the last waves to start and running up on older, and much slower, athletes and into traffic jams at 200m into a 1.2 mile swim. I can only imagine what a less-experienced, older swimmer feels like when dozens of faster athletes come screaming by in a more aggressive, racing mind-set. Having said that, I understand that the RD has done this to shorten the total length of the race (and having been a run course volunteer many-a-time can appreciate a shorter total race time!). I think that smaller waves are good for shorter races, but for 1/2 IM races they seem to be getting too small!
Keep mass starts, but let's (as a triathlon community) find better ways to set up swim start lines and courses.
Rick@SwimIT
Jun 29, 12 19:01
Post #65 of 65
(784 views)
Re: Was there a death at CDA today? [M.E.A.T.]
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That was great explanation of a little known condition that could lead to drowning. I'm thrilled to hear there is a fix, albeit tough to exhale in that situation. FYI, I train and race with a swim safety device that was approved this year by USAT and Ironman. It is the Swim IT and is worn on the back of the right leg. It would have been very useful in your predicament! Especially if you had been training alone or couldn't get a good soul to stop and help. I can't tell you how many times I have been coached to ignore other swimmers in a race and focus on my swim, so I am surprised that you got someone to help you so quickly. Thanks again for the explanation of laryngospasm.
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