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Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before

 

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FisH2O

Feb 16, 11 10:16

Post #1 of 31 (3148 views)
Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before Quote | Reply

A link from the Science of Sport article to Bicycling article contains intriguing new info

Snippet:
As expected, the Spanish Cycling Federation panel convened to rule on Alberto Contador’s positive test for clenbuterol today overturned its initial recommendation for a one-year ban, and has instead cleared him of all charges.

I say “as expected” because Spanish media had for the better part of a week been predicting this would be the case, because Contador himself is not only cleared to start the Volta Algarve tomorrow but, lo and behold, he’s actually already in Portugal for it and registered, and because Contador and his lawyer reportedly taped a media interview saying they were “very content” with the RFEC’s decision … two hours before the decision was announced.
Handy.


After reading a lot of articles and comments yesterday, I was actually leaning towards the concept of Contador possibly being clean. I don't know if he had a transfusion, and I don't know how the Clen got in his system. HOWEVER... After doing the SUFFERFEST Angels this morning and watching him race (and bonk), I remembered a few things that always bothered me.

Contador seems to peak for every race. Most of the other cyclists peak for a few races, but are in bad form for others.

And this: Note that most of the other high achievers have either admitted doping, or have been caught/suspected.

The 2010 TDF numbers are actually pretty realistic, which leads me to believe that Contador was very likely doping before (Puerto, etc), and actually may have been a little bit clean in 2010. My impression of the Chaingate stage was that Contador was struggling a bit, and Andy would have dropped him had he not dropped himself. If a transfusion was involved, this would likely be the impetus from Contador's side. The thought of another big climb against someone that put the hurt on you would not be appetizing. The Science of Sport numbers on the Tourmalet seem to indicate that Andy might actually be clean, just with a great kick to separate.

Anyway, thought it was pretty interesting, better than the same old stuff I've been reading for the past few weeks.


wpcouch

Feb 16, 11 11:12

Post #2 of 31 (2949 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [FisH2O] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I wonder where Ricco would rank in that graph?

Despite what he did or didn't take, he sure was entertaining to watch!
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drewmc3656

Feb 16, 11 11:17

Post #3 of 31 (2904 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [wpcouch] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Quote:

Despite what he did or didn't take, he sure was entertaining to watch!

Are you saying that if you knew for a fact that he cheated, you would have still been interested in watching him race his bike?


wpcouch

Feb 16, 11 11:24

Post #4 of 31 (2863 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [drewmc3656] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Do you watch baseball?

American Football?

Futball?

Skiing?

etc...?

Doping is an integral part of sports. All sports. It's like a virus or bacteria. You know it's there. You want it to go away or be eradicated. You might not see it or realize it's there anymore, but it is... I do not like it or agree with the practice.


But, that being said, I did find Ricco's many vicious attacks on the climbs in the TdF entertaining. It was entertaining to watch.
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drewmc3656

Feb 16, 11 11:29

Post #5 of 31 (2823 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [wpcouch] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

No, in fact, I don't watch those sports.

And I don't enjoy watching someone who is cheating/lying providing entertainment at the expense of others who are riding clean.

Such a nonchalant/it's going to happen anyway attitude is what allows doping to continue.


wpcouch

Feb 16, 11 11:39

Post #6 of 31 (2759 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [drewmc3656] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I'm hardly nonchalant about the subject. Frankly, I think the only solution to the issue of doping (as it pertains to cycling) is incessant testing.

Test everyone. Test at every stage of every race. Test amateurs and pros. It would be a huge expense and a huge PIA, but I really don't see another way to TRULY stop the doping.


Random testing does very little and catches very few, IMO. Random testing can be avoided or leaked ahead of time. Start the testing processes early and often. Many of the guys that are doping started long before they made it to the pros, so why would they stop when they get there? Test Cat1/2 guys. If they really want to go pro they'll have to get used to it anyway, and hopefully that will help clean up the problem.


I still thought Ricco's attacks were fun to watch. Take it or leave it.
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c.dan.run

Feb 16, 11 11:41

Post #7 of 31 (2751 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [FisH2O] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The Verbier is shorter than those other climbs and apparently was with the wind that day, IIRC.


jackmott

Feb 16, 11 11:42

Post #8 of 31 (2743 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [wpcouch] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

they still can't test for blood doping (what ricco was most recently doing)


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Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter


msuguy512

Feb 16, 11 11:44

Post #9 of 31 (2731 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [wpcouch] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

There already is tons of testing, it does nothing. The only way to truly stop it is informants, private investigations, and jail sentances. Unfortunately the people who makes billions off the athletes are able to generate huge PR smear campaigns to make sure this does not happen.


wpcouch

Feb 16, 11 11:44

Post #10 of 31 (2730 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

True, but they can detect plasticizers in your blood, which can be linked to blood transfusions.
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phillyfan

Feb 16, 11 11:45

Post #11 of 31 (2720 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [wpcouch] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

X2 on Ricco. He had balls like few others and made it very exciting to watch.
Many forget he would have WON the TDF in 2008 if he didn't get popped for EPO.

I was looking forward to another futile attack on the Poggio at MSR...

With Contador being cleared, I have faith that Ricco will be back in time for the Giro :-)


wpcouch

Feb 16, 11 11:46

Post #12 of 31 (2716 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [msuguy512] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I wouldn't say it "does nothing."
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TashaSkippy

Feb 16, 11 11:59

Post #13 of 31 (2647 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [FisH2O] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think the Armstrong Alpe d'Huez number from 2004 was the time trial, correct? I think there is some margin of error in there since he didn't ride 2 or 3 Cat 1 or HC climbs over 100 miles before he hit the bottom of the climb.

There are just too may factors at play for this chart to give too much insight into Contador's performance.


FisH2O

Feb 16, 11 12:15

Post #14 of 31 (2559 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [Skippy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Skippy wrote:
I think the Armstrong Alpe d'Huez number from 2004 was the time trial, correct? I think there is some margin of error in there since he didn't ride 2 or 3 Cat 1 or HC climbs over 100 miles before he hit the bottom of the climb.

There are just too may factors at play for this chart to give too much insight into Contador's performance.

Not sure on the Armstrong. Lots of variables in there but they have done a good job trying to normalize. Never going to be perfect, but gives one something to compare performances. The link to the 2010 Tourmalet is very interesting, they have actual SRM data from Horner & Sorensen to work from here


jackmott

Feb 16, 11 12:15

Post #15 of 31 (2553 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [wpcouch] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

wpcouch wrote:
I wouldn't say it "does nothing."

it does nothing because they just cheat in ways the tests can't detect.


Quintana Roo - history and technology
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter


jackmott

Feb 16, 11 12:17

Post #16 of 31 (2538 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [Skippy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

the argument basically is that until EPO there was an upper bound nobody was ever exceeding

then all the top guys were exceeding it, and almost all of them have been caught doping or are being accused by like 9 ex teammates and had an unofficial test confirm it.


Skippy wrote:
I think the Armstrong Alpe d'Huez number from 2004 was the time trial, correct? I think there is some margin of error in there since he didn't ride 2 or 3 Cat 1 or HC climbs over 100 miles before he hit the bottom of the climb.

There are just too may factors at play for this chart to give too much insight into Contador's performance.


Quintana Roo - history and technology
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter


NateC

Feb 16, 11 12:18

Post #17 of 31 (2533 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [wpcouch] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

wpcouch wrote:
I wouldn't say it "does nothing."

Really? In light of the Contador decision, I would say what good does it do? Even with a positive test, nothing resulted of it.

It's very saddening.


wpcouch

Feb 16, 11 12:19

Post #18 of 31 (2524 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [NateC] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That had very little to do with the test itself, and was, IMO, purely politics.

It seems as if UCI will appeal to the CAS soon
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Carl Spackler

Feb 16, 11 12:20

Post #19 of 31 (2514 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [FisH2O] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Contador blew up at P-N 2009 and missed the podium. Lance then took the opportunity to light his teammate up in the press, which is about all he achieved during his comeback. Besides that, Contador does a handful of stage races every year that all suit him so it's no real surprise that he always looks strong.

For that chart you pasted, wasn't it later proven to be based on incorrect assumptions?

Lastly, if we want to talk about eye-opening performances then Andy's final ITT at TDF would be right at the top: he suddenly overcame his biggest weakness and held pace with a guy who has been a top TTer his entire career.

I'm not making a case for El Clenbutolero being clean, just that he's hardly the only one.

__________________________________________________


wpcouch

Feb 16, 11 12:21

Post #20 of 31 (2505 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [jackmott] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

jackmott wrote:
wpcouch wrote:
I wouldn't say it "does nothing."


it does nothing because they just cheat in ways the tests can't detect.

There are plenty using doping methods that ARE detectable. New guys are getting popped for doping every day, you just don't hear about it as often because they aren't all FL, AC, RR, etc...
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jackmott

Feb 16, 11 12:21

Post #21 of 31 (2501 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [Carl Spackler] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Carl Spackler wrote:
I'm not making a case for El Clenbutolero being clean, just that he's hardly the only one.

yeah, its pretty telling how supportive schleck is of contador I think


Quintana Roo - history and technology
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter


FisH2O

Feb 16, 11 12:30

Post #22 of 31 (2455 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [Carl Spackler] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The Sufferfest Vid "angels" shows the blow-up in spectacular fashion. You get to hand Contador his ass. He then returns the favor later on...

Not sure about the assumptions - I am guessing you can pick apart any comparison like this if you apply yourself. I do remember reading something about the length of various courses being inaccurate in various comparisons like this.

I do think it is interesting to note that the Tourmalet stage data shows that Andy & Contador weren't that much faster, they just got away from the rest then held it. Makes is somewhat believable that they weren't doping.

Couldn't you say the same thing about Sastre's 2008 TDF TT effort vs. Cadel? Sad to think we have to choose between doping and rising to the occasion...


gildasd

Feb 16, 11 13:16

Post #23 of 31 (2322 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [FisH2O] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Corrected link to the 1st post:

LINKY


G
http://brokeniron.blogspot.com/


Richard Blaine

Feb 16, 11 13:31

Post #24 of 31 (2273 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [c.dan.jog] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

c.dan.jog wrote:
The Verbier is shorter than those other climbs and apparently was with the wind that day, IIRC.

Sure. But he's higher than all the listed other climbs, including a doped up to the gills Pantani.


Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.


styrrell

Feb 16, 11 13:38

Post #25 of 31 (2239 views)
Re: Interesting Contador insight I hadn't heard before [wpcouch] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

And likely drinking liquids out of plastic bottles.

Styrrell
Styrrell

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Ironman prize money
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