Bah,

Ok first off, I'm not trying to defend WTC's action as more just saying it's going to happen in our country and it is their right to do that as long as they follow all rules/regulations (so if that is defending them, so be it). It's like the case where it was a Jewish lawyer representing a Nazi group when their civil liberties were potentially being violated. If they are doing things to the letter of the law, they basically are going to do it, whether ethical right or wrong. I'm 100000% against WTC and WILL NEVER ever do an WTC event, but if they are doing things legally, all I can say is tough luck for the rest of it. All I've simply said is WTC is taking advantage of being the big bad company that they are. Their first priority is to make sure WTC is taken care of, not worry about the welfare of the sport or other race organizations. As a business, that makes a lot of sense and speaking in business talk, I can see why they do the things they do.

I may not agree with their actions, but if what they are doing is legal, than it is what it is. People can agree or disagree with them (and I've never once said it is wrong to agree or disagree with them).


I'm just being realistic in that WTC is going to push the line of what is right and wrong, and I'm guessing they have ALOT of smart lawyers knowing how close that line is to toeing. They have every right to do that, just as you have every right to complain about WTC (as long as all the letters of the law/rights are being followed).

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I read the article in the link you posted and I've skimmed some of the posts in this thread.

Firstly, I'll suggest there may be additional information needed to form a solid opinion. One tendency of journalists and especially forums is to use partial information to form a complete "conclusion".

There may be other motives and reasons we are not informed on that have influenced WTC's stipulations in this case: I do not know.

I will suggest this: WTC has a genuine public relations opportunity here. It is a chance for them to build a sense of community and contribution to the sport, within the sport and within the venues where WTC events are hosted. Rather than "slash and burn" race promotion- which is what some people are suggesting, this could be an opportunity for them to build further brand loyalty. Every challenge is an opportunity.

I don't pretend to know all the facotrs that have gone into this circumstance. I can't even be certain the "information" published is entirely correct.

I do know that, at this point WTC would be able to gain a lot of respect by designating someone within their organization as a forum/interactive media liason to engage us in discussions like this and expalin and moderate their motives. Silence is sometimes the best option- but not always the best option. I wonder if the good folk at WTC have discussed that? If they did put someone on interactive media duty they would have to have asbestos skin because the going might be a bit turbulent initially....

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Seems like a blackout falls within the very definition of anti-competitive behavior.

If you really want to use the race comparison, it seems like a blackout is the equivalent of limiting your competitors from even entering the race.

I dont think they need a media liason to tell us that WTC is all about the bottom line. Come to terms with that and the motives behind their decision making makes complete sense.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Or we could just observe their actions and make our own conclusions based on those observations.

If someone needs to appoint someone for damage control then chances are they've caused damage, which is exactly what is being observed and discussed here.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"That night I had a dream. I dreamt I was as light as the ether."

The Commissioners need to tell WTC to fuck themselves.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should be loyal to them for being utter assholes and then letting them do damage control? Hell no. Even if they rescind the blackout and don't do it again, they have still established poor ethics which means I'm going to hold them in very low esteem going forward. You get less trust after acting unethically, not more.

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Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari

So, I thought I was up to speed on who runs what.

There is a new tri coming to San Diego:
http://www.sandiegotriathlononline.com/
Which seems to be run be IMG.
Yet there is a "Run by IRONMAN" logo on the front page.
Yet, if you click on this, you go to http://www.pem-usa.com/

I am confused.

There are some practices that some companies involved in triathlon engage in that would not be permitted if done by major corporations. But because so very few people are affected they get away with it. for those in the business of regulating business practices there are just far bigger fish to fry.

It's up to the consumer to simply vote with their feet and money.

Really, there is nothing that a company WTC offer that numerous other companies don't offer also. It amazes me why so many people think a Capital M with a dot above it is so much more special than a funny C or a three letter word or something else.

Hoodwinked.

Quote:

Really, there is nothing that a company WTC offer that numerous other companies don't offer also.

That's simply not true.

Does Ironman demand 60-days of inactivity at all of their other race sites?

In some cases when we purchase an event we do work with the local government to secure a date and site that cannot be used for 30 days before or after our events. This does not happen at every site, but it does take place for good reasons.

Why?

We do this for a number of reasons.

#1 - Use of the site and roads for a triathlon puts a burden on the park and roads around the park. Parks are used by everyone during the summer and if an event is held each weekend at that park, then the community is not able to use the park. Same with the roads around the park. If an event takes place each weekend and the roads are closed the people living on these roads are not able to travel on them during the weekend. We want to make sure that the community is not overburdened by events each weekend.

#2 - Events also put a burden on the Police, Fire Rescue, Lifeguards and EMS. Having an event each weekend would mean that each of these groups would be working each weekend.


Do we need your help? We have been producing events in Muncie for 31 years; including World's and multiple nationals and are all adults. We produced 5 events at the lake this year and had NO PROBLEMS whatsoever. The President of the United States doesn't need 61 days for his one day visit anywhere.

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STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com

Tom, that's an interesting perspective. To my knowledge this hasn't happened. The WTC doesn't appear to have made any effort to reach out to Steve or anyone else in the community that I know of. Neither have the Commissioners as well because they hold an important role in this as well. What we do know is that the lockout period of 30 days prior and 30 days after seems excessive and is limiting Muncie Multisport's options.

Steve and Tammy as well of all of us on his race team have worked extremely hard since last December to see this series realized and get off the ground. Now only to have it threatened by this agreement. Delaware county is one of the most unhealthy counties in the state and one of the things that Steve wants to do is promote the health and Wellness of the county. That's hard to do if you can't have your events for 2/3 of the summer!

If the WTC and Commissioners would actually take a step back and reach out to Steve and others I think that they would find that most if not all of us would welcome the WTC into the community if they'd just work with us. Every indication is that they have no desire to do this which is very unfortunate.

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John Mickle
ECI Endurance

I love #2 of putting a burden on police, fire, rescue...well, those folks get paid for their services and don't burden any of their regular shifts! That's not a burden that's a benefit for those folks. I was on the Sheriff's department several years ago and I can tell you that we just about fought over working at these types of events! So burden...I don't think so!!!

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John Mickle
ECI Endurance

You're going to need to do more than deny it to get much traction there. I know the 5430 Sprint had nothing that non-WTC races at the Boulder Rez don't have, at only twice the price.

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Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari

The Commissioners need to tell WTC to fuck themselves.

Perfect, I totally agree.

Well, a few beers contributed to my earlier post. I do think it is really improper for government to aid WTC (or any business) in anti-competitive behavior. I like the reasoning of the guy who says basically that "it's not 60 days, it's 30 days before and 30 after". Nice.

Yes, it is a HUGE burden on all these folks to get paid time-and-a-half, or double-time, to basically stand around for a few hours on a nice weekend day.
The horror. The HORROR.

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float , hammer , and jog

More drivel:
2. To protect the interests of the
> community and the residents. One of our goals is to protect
> the residents who live and work along our event
> courses. Back-to-back events scheduled each weekend
> would inconvenience residents.


There has never been an event back to back in Muncie in 31 years.

3. To ensure quality of the events. Often
> times residents do not demarcate between events and look at
> Ironman as representing all triathlons in a region. If, as
> often is the case, an event company comes in and puts on a
> poor event with negative repercussions in the community
> whether through traffic problems, suppliers, or worst case a serious injury

SEE IMLou thread?

There are very few IMRD's that can touch my resume in the Tri World. Why didn't the WTC pick-up the phone?

This is all they sent the day of the announcement in the local paper:

Good evening Steve. You obviously know about the new 70.3 Muncie that is on July 9, 2011. As a heads up, we do have an exclusivity agreement with Prairie Creek, Delaware County and the City of Muncie for 30 days before and after the event. The use of the venue, road closures, security, permits will not be allowed. I wanted to give you plenty of time to work out your 2011 schedule with this in mind. If you have any questions or need additional information please do not hesitate to contact me.

Does that look like fair trade practice to you? Nice job asking the people who pay taxes in this community what they want at the ONLY lake in the whole area.

Maybe I should post the threats; in writing no less, we have received from the former owners of this event?

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STIndiana
America Multi-Sport, Inc.
America's Half June 10, 2017
USAT RD Century Club
http://www.americamultisport.com

I love this thread, particularly in light of the fact that 52% of people who answered the poll on the forum page are planning to do a WTC race as their next A race. I guess WTC is the asshole, until it comes time to vote with your wallet.

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Steve Perkins

Parks are used by everyone during the summer and if an event is held each weekend at that park, then the community is not able to use the park.

What a sack of bullshit. Let me see if I understand this: Parks are to be used by everyone but if they're used then they won't be able to be used. I've done Muncie numerous times. The race never seemed to significantly impede the use of the park by others

Events also put a burden on the Police, Fire Rescue, Lifeguards and EMS. Having an event each weekend would mean that each of these groups would be working each weekend.

I'd be embarrassed to release a statement like this. They must think the general public are morons. Of course it isn't a burden when WTC puts on an event

How many athletes planning on WTC races actually know about what's happening here and in other areas regarding their business practices? And, before too long it may not matter...you're likely to see that number go higher because WTC events may be many athletes only choice. Especially if the WTC keeps this crap up! They are systematically eliminating competition. I'd be concerned if I were USAT!

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John Mickle
ECI Endurance

maybe it's know instead of think. look how many folks in this thread are defending wtc's actions. i guess a sizeable percentage of folks here are new enough to the sport that they believe wtc is nearly synonymous with triathlon and therefore can do no wrong.

My wallet is not voting with WTC.

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Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari

ditto. this year was for road racing; next year will probably be back to du and maybe tri. no wtc events for me.

I figured a simple denial was suficient, it's been demonstrated over and over on this forum. Ironman races have lots of things others can't match. Size, level of age group competition, Kona slots... I could go on. Certainly an argument could be made for merits of smaller races, but to suggest that WTC offers "nothing" the others do is ridiculous. Don't let your hatred blind you to the obvious.

Thom