...but surely the creation of the open category makes sense.

Why? The guy used to race as a 2nd tier pro and probably had other forms of income at the time and now I assume works full time. So we should create another division to cater to this?

What if I have a full time job, but no kids and another guy in my age group has 6 kids. I definitely have an advantage from a time and training perspective.....maybe we should create another division to satisfy the needs of that dad who may not qualify either. sheesh

You can extend taht line of thinking as far as your imagination will take you. How about a special category for old guys like me who excelled in other sports but did not start triathlon until they were over 45?

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Live long and surf!

AND

1. those guys who ran in college then 5 years later enter age group 5ks
2. those guys who train hard race a lot then enter local tri's
3. those guys who were college swimmers then a few years later enter their state games competition
4. those guys who retire at 50 and race the guys who still work
5. -
6. -
7. -
8. -
9. -
10. - THOSE GUYS WITH GREAT GENES WHO race the rest of us

:) ;) :) ; ) :0 :) ; )

So what is a retired "pro" who is still very good supposed to do? Not race? Just sit on the sidelines and watch?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

There's no right answer to it, you could create a 'masters division' but then it wouldn't be fair to the ones who have qualified. Its just like anything in life, things aren't always giong to be how you want them.

I, for one, welcome our ex pro age grouper overlords.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

As long as I have use of my arms and legs I feel that I have the same advantage as everyone else.

jaretj

I would agree with the OP. The retired, burned out, oft injured Pro shouldn't simply become an age grouper and compete for awards or Kona slots. Race yes but win, I don't think so. There should be a 5 or 10 year period before they can "win" in the age group ranks IMO. That would be enough time for a return to age group status.

Coach or run for office in the sports national body?

Why not just have people start in waves of "target finish time?" Longer open races do this, why not multisport? Forget the term pro...it's not the same as it is in other sports.

There should be a 5 or 10 year period before they can "win" in the age group ranks IMO. That would be enough time for a return to age group status.


You are kidding, right? I did not see a smiley, so I have to ask.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Disrespect the giant ants at your own peril.

I believe once you race with a pro card you cannot compete as an age grouper for 2 years.

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Thanks to Euro-Sports for my H3Cs.

http://www.euro-sports.ca

I can't speak for each atheltes individual circumstance. If they were in the ITU Australian program at that time, then they were being reasonably supported and if they wanted to make any real money then they needed to win.

Is he working full time now, yes, did he have a massive advantged gained through his own talent and hard work,l yes, does that decade or so continue to give him an advantage over the mass competitor, hell yes.

I was going to stay away from taking the thread this way, but given the lack of balanced replies, here goes.

What satisfaction does an ex elite athelete get from beating up on the AG who is simply not comparable in terms of talent or oppurtunity. Triathalon is supported by AG who are by and large not elite and never will be, most of these people get no recognition for anything they do other than the joy of competing, maybe if they are really lucky they might get to Kona and may occsionaly place in thier AG once or twice in their lifetime.

The pro has had there go and now they come back in and make it even harder for the people who make this sport work to succeed. The alterntaive is to say that the best are the best and whether or not they were a pro or not makes no difference, they are an AG and can race as an AG and tough luck for eveyrbody else, stop crying get better or do something else.

I'm not sure I played soccer at a pretty good level for a number of years and then went back to hack around in amatuer weekend matches and it did nothing for me, sure you get to showboat a bit, but how good does that make you feel, when you are beating on a guy who has no real background in the sport, no access to elite coaching and inferior fittness levels. For me absolutley nothing. I won best and fairest for the season and it left me hollow.

If the ex pros who come down to the age group ranks don't feel this hollowness when they destroy their age group, then it pretty much sums up why they are ex pros and why they most liley never made it big time as pro.

The creation of an open category would work, has been tried and does work, yeah you'll always get people who don't fit in, like the ex college 10,000 m guy but who cares, try it , it could work.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...i?post=489077#489077

If the ex pros who come down to the age group ranks don't feel this hollowness when they destroy their age group, then it pretty much sums up why they are ex pros and why they most liley never made it big time as pro.

The only hollowness this reveals is the hollowness in the soul of someone who seeks to "win" by keeping competitors out of the race. Chances are very good that all of us are going to lose anyway so why not get your butt kicked by someone good?

If you want to advocate for some sort of elite masters class, go for it. But, you seem to be implying that absent such a class, any retired pro who wants to do a tri must sit at home lest he/she offend someone by beating them. The former pro you cite just wanted, like any of us, to do a triathlon. He looked at the entry form and checked the box that applied to him. I highly doubt he had a mindset any different than anyone else there that day. He just wanted to go as fast as he could.

Over the years I've been involved in several sports where former "pros" (and in some instances current pros) can mingle with the masses in competition. In every other sport where this happens, there is almost universal joy on the part of the masses that they get a chance, however fleeting it may be, to really toe the line against someone who is really good at their sport.

You want a separate category for people that train more than you? Only in triathlon. I always thought it was cool when former top marathoners hit 40 or 50 and could go for new records.

I really like the idea of pros or whomever to race as AG's. Once when I was on the podium and Dave Scott was handing out the trophies, I told him since he retired, he should race as an AG to set a benchmark for all us wananbe but couldn't be pros. Same with ex collegiate swimmers or runners, or former bike pros. They set the ultimate benchmark record which we can all strive for IF we want to. If you broke one of their records, in any of the AG's, now THAT would be something to be proud of. If you look at some of the IM race records, they aren't that fast because us mere mortals may have set them and they get broken on a regular basis. If Dave Scott or anyone else like him set a record, I'm sure it would last for a long time and when someone (working 40hrs/wk) breaks it, that would be an immense accomplishment. I like records to stand for a long time, the longer the better. That shows how good some of these guys are.

I guess the question comes about whether a person is in the sport for some sort of external validation or status in terms of where they finish in the pack, or if they're in it for the internal challenge of themself v. clock or course.

Me, I've been in the front of the pack in some races, the back of the pack in others, and while it is cooler to be finishing with a whole bunch of people behind you, for me, it's more about the internal challenge. When I see the ex-Olympian show up at a local race, it's like a second of 'Hey, cool, it's Sarah!" and then it's back to the business of paying attention to my own race.

Uhm...once he becomes an AG'er again, he is one of those AGers that keeps the sport alive. He's out there paying his money, working a regular job, etc. just like the rest of us.

I know. What if everyone that qualifies for Kona and goes, can't qualify again for three years? I would guess that after a couple years of all the qualifiers not being eligible, it might make it easier for joe schlub to qualify.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Substitute Trent Chapman with the name Steve Larsen, and do a thread search. You will get all the arguements that you can handle...I suppose you will not be happy until no pros can race AG ever, and there is an ironman slot for the first guy with the screen name Liver_life....

Get over it, peopel get their asses kicked all the time, and don't whine about it. It is a big world, and you have to accept that there other people faster, smarter, luckier, better looking, and everything else there is to compare..Step up and be a man about it, and give the top people their props when they are due.. I bet the 55 year old Dave Scott kicks you ass too, does he still have to race open in your world????

Dude, I might be with you. I'd love to have a shot at Kona too. Figure out a way to knock out folks with high VO2 max and who train more than 10 hours per week so that qualifying times rise to 11 hour range and I'll completely support you.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

I agree totally with the OP. A few months ago I raced a 5km and Tom Evans won my age group, knocking me down to third.I really really wanted that second place medal and I don't think it is fair that I was cheated out of it. I rode home in a whaaaaaambulance.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

 
"Yay! I won my AG because the 8 people in my AG who were faster than me had the sack to race the open wave."

Maybe races should start having an engraver onsite who could customize everyone's finisher's medal with their own category, although they might have to make the medals bigger:"

Mine would be:

<huge font>1st place<\huge font>:
<tiny font>41 year olds named Kyle with 2 dogs and 2 kids<\tiny font>

That way, my friends and family would think "Man, he wins every race he does! What a stud!"