Both were playing the Lighthouse card?

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I hope he wasn't driving!

Several careers will end as a result.......guaranteed. Bummer.

---

---

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

CO & OOD[/img]

CO, XO and OOD, at least, go bye-bye. On that boat, probably the diving officer/COB go down, too. That's how it should be.

I've been out on those waters. It can be a damn tight fit as far as maneuvering space goes, in some spots. And anybody who's helmed a vessel knows how quickly things can go sideways on you if you're not paying strict attention.


T.

I assume the sub is underwater, of course.

So do the guys on the surface even know it's there? Is there some sort of transponder thingie that lets navy vessels know when a sub is nearby? I would guess not (signal could be picked up by enemy, etc).

The sub knows better than anybody, through the sonar suite, where everybody is. It was probably part of some sort of battle group -- judging by the fact there was a gator freighter in the flotilla -- and operating in close quarters and coordination with the other members of the group. A collision like this can happen pretty quickly, and I don't know if they were training in some sort of fashion with each other (or who was closing in on whom) or not, but both helms have a certain degree of responsibility for ensuring things like this don't happen.

Slowguy can speak to the actual conditions at the time, I'm sure.

T.

Sorry, but I don't have anything other than what you can get in the news, just yet.

I'll offer the following thoughts.

1. This incident occured at 0100, when it's dark, and both crews have been up for an extended period of time.

2. The Strait of Hormuz is defined as an international strait, for the purposes of legal transit purposes. this means that the HARTFORD would have been within it's rights and very well could have been transitting submerged (maybe at periscope depth).

3. The NEW ORLEANS is a brand spanking new ship. I know the CO, and he's pretty solid.

4. The SOH is tight, from the perspective of executing any kind of wide maneuvering, but there is plenty of room for inbound and outbound vessels to pass safely, or for one vessel to overtake another safely, so long as traffic permits.

5. 25,000 gallons of fuel is a HUGE amount to spill for a Navy ship.

6. Probably both CO's get relieved. There's a lot of pressure on the surface fleet in particular right now, and not much tolerance for error. If I had to guess, and not knowing anything about the situation other than what's in the initial report, I'd guess that one or both XOs also get fired, along with the Officers of the Deck (OOD).

If I hear any more that's interesting but not classified, I'll pass it along.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Ok, not much new info, but what I've seen suggests that HARTFORD was probably at fault, more than NEW ORLEANS. Here's a photo of the damage to HARTFORD.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Another one that shows how far over the sail was pushed by the collision.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Ouch. That can't be cheap to fix (the sail getting bent over to the side). Is that a 688 boat?

Spot

---

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

LOS ANGELES Class
SSN-768

If you look closely, you can see NEW ORLEANS pierside further into the picture. Reports are that both made it safely pierside. That's gonna make for some awkward liberty in Bahrain. On a side note, it appears that the fuel spilled during the incident has disappated. There is no longer any sheen visible on the surface of the water.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

It's the Hartford SSN 768 no stranger to a wee little mishaps. Back in 2003 she ran around and did some damage to the rudders,CO and a two others relieved.
Guess who is coming to Norfolk for work?

Queeg was driving.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Queeg was driving.

Nah, must have been some other metal. Queeg caught a 40 watt phase rifle round to the head recently.

Queeg caught a 40 watt phase rifle round to the head recently.

Poor guy, he's been through a lot! Mutiney then a phase rifle. He really needs to go back to Arizona and retire.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

A few questions on your first picture - Is that rust? Does stuff really rust that quickly in the ocean, or is it rubbed off the other ship, kind of like swapping paint? And what is the significance of the blue and white tarp/flag? I assume it's covering something up, but do all subs have a tarp that large on board at all times?

d

---

-------------
"Life is fragile - we are all just a slip or a car crash away from being a very different person."

"A few questions on your first picture - Is that rust? Does stuff really rust that quickly in the ocean, or is it rubbed off the other ship, kind of like swapping paint?"

Yes it looks like rust to me. Yes, metal exposed to salt water rusts fast as Hell. As for the tarp, I have no idea if HARTFORD had that aboard or if it was given to them by someone to help cover the damage/minimize internal exposure to the elements.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

They really bumped uglies, that's for sure. And yes, it looks like Hartford's more at fault in this one than New Orleans. Man...to run that sail into the hull of the 'Orleans. You suppose she was trying a sneak-and-peek and got in too close? If that gator freighter made a sudden course correction, and the sub was still inching in, closure rate would have nailed her before she could submerge or even turn hard away. Unbelievable.

T.

It is really simple 500+ jarheads on gator freighter needing some liberty ;-).It was a block out tack. First to tie up gets the beer. LPD (1) SSN ( 0) bubble heads lose ;-)

That "tarp" looks more like an inflatable raft drafted into coverage duty. You know anything a sub/surface ship that might look like that?

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

The closest thing I can think of is that it looks like the tents we sometimes use to set up shade for force protection watchstanders. It doesn't look like a standard Navy liferaft.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

One other detail I heard from a sub bubba. Apparently HARTFORD took in a roll in excess of 80degress during the collision. That's uncomfortable.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Wow...I'm surprised that there weren't more serious injuries on the sub.

Slightly different subject...did they ever fix that sub that ran into that underwater mountain in the Pacific? I couldn't believe the amount of damage done to the nose of that sucker.

Spot

---

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Quick questions about the guys standing on top of the sail. Do they wear a harness in case they fall? Life jackets? Is there an outside ladder to get to the top? Does the crew ever get to go top side during regular service? How many crew members are there typically in submarine like the Hartford? Does the periscope rise much above the top of the silver tower, or is that how far up it is? Finally, can they steer the sub from up above or is it only from down below?