I don't know you and I personally didn't think the photo was bad, but I understand where people are coming from that thought it might have been distasteful. However, going to your sponsors was totally uncalled for.

People suck! You and M ROCK!!!!!

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SUPPORT OPERATION REBOUND:
http://www.operationreboundcalifornia.kintera.org/ejs3

Kestrel Syndicate
Macca Fan Club

I agree that going to someones sponsor was way un called for! To mess with ones lively hood just because they don't like something is very poor judgment on their behalf.
Its a shame that some people have to take themselves so serious and try to push their values on others.

I don't think you anyone any "sorry", the only thing to be sorry for is the fact that somebody had the poor judgment to call your sponsor. Thats way more distasteful than any photo

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Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3

Wow very well said...I have been on here almost a yr and completely agree with everything you just said...

Its a shame that Ryan utilizes his Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression and gets ripped and possibly lose a sponsor...

To the guy who called that sponsor remember this, What Goes Around Comes Around and for you its gonna come hard asshole.

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"Fear is what drives you in the last part of a marathon in an Ironman. The body is depleted and the mind is fuzzy. Short course racing is driven by power and finese at the end of a race, Ironman demands so much more and is driven by will and mental strength." Chris McCormack

10/28/08 Dev Paul had 400w FTP!!!

Sorry all that crap happened to you! For anyone who thought Specialized would be offended, have they not seen the Specialized Angel??? Heaven forbid if they ever went to Pezcyclingnews.com and looked at the daily distractions!!! People need to chill out! I really hope your sponsors don't drop you! Oh, and if you want to PM me more of the pics and/or that same one feel free ;-)

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My buddy is an artist, check out his work!
http://www.justinvining.com

[reply][reply]

Or how about this one on the front page of ST. I mean, half naked, straddling pose, sultry look--where is that number for Scott, I feel the need to write a nasty letter to them. And the nerve of that "chick", she is probably a bimbo.

[img]http://i28.tinypic.com/29maeit.jpg[/img][/reply]

Actually, I'd call that more of a "don't f*** with me" look. Not a "come f*** me" look.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Okay in the interest of JUSTICE I went to above mentioned link and previewed the Daily Distraction pic's. I warn you unless you have a strong stomach DO NOT GO THERE, it is completely and utter~ly ;) an example of a sickness spreading in this world! Do not follow that link, you will be sorry. I must go now and wash my eyes out with soap.










Nice link thanks!

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Remember when the Zombies come, and they will come...the fatties always go first.

For the most part, Pez's Daily Distractions are fully clothed. I doubt Pez would post up a photo like that of Mrs. Pez. But, that's a good question--I wonder if he would put it in the DD. I'm guessing he'd think twice about it. (Because of perception, not what she's wearing.)

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

technically the woman in the specialized pic was fully clothed as well, yeah, the pose was a bit risque, but nothing that hasn't been already seen plenty in various advertising campaigns (especially perfumes and so on). Anyways I am sure the poster of the original article now has unfortunately learned the hard lesson that nowadays the internet reaches every strata of the population, from the very liberal (which didn't see anything wrong at all with the pic, and actually would have been ok with far more risque pics) to the extremely conservative (which instead took it upon themselves to let the poster's sponsors know that the pic offended their sense of morality).

Somehow the general athletic population (frequenters of ST and triathlons) has always struck me as reasonably liberal minded, after all very conservative folks might not want to be seen out and about clad in small amounts of lycra that leave very little to the imagination: because of this I definitely suggest to the original poster's sponsors to carefully consider their market before taking an action that would alienate the majority of their target consumers...

"This is but a sorry lesson of what we already know, that ST has become a place of intolerance and judgment."

imho, this forum is precisely the same place it has always been, just a little bigger and with some new faces. there never was a particular way people responded to things that were on the edge. there were several or many ways. if you post on an internet forum board, you have to have a thick skin, because there are all types who read and post. also, one must reckon with the "angry keyboardist," the odd sort of fellow who rose in concert with the internet and who, like the angry drunk, exhibits a behavior when "under the influence" of his keyboard and router that he'd never exhibit in person.

as for people who've been "driven away" from this board, in the great majority of cases i drove them away through my insistence that they exhibit civil behavior. if you think this is an intolerant forum, then you haven't been around. heck, just go to the lavender room, that'll give you a glimpse of what it's like out there in the real world -- and they all like each other.

i'm writing this in answer to your post, otherwise this is a subject i don't care to write about i weary quickly of a community that turns inward and starts talking about itself. i'm likely to pull those posts when i see them. if you want to talk about whether slowtwitch is good or bad or nice or nasty best you save your posts on client side if you want to savor your wordsmithing at a later date, because they're likely to go poof soon after you write them.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

True, but I'm a guy so anything in the ballpark is most definatley....the look. : ))

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

>>just go to the lavender room<<

Honey, you ARE in the lavender room. (See, this is why the different rooms need to be different colors.) ;-)

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Dude...

First of all, I never thought the pic was that big of a deal. In fact, I showed my wife the thread, and she thought it was pretty humorous. I think that waaaaay too many people on this forum got far too worked up, and in fact need to take a very large chill pill. Or go get a sense of humor, or both.

Secondly, I think that you are a guy I'd like to meet...even though I don't think that what happened was your fault, you are still man enough to own up to your part in it, and take responsibility. That takes guts, and too few people have that these days.

So, a tip of the beer bottle in your direction, Ryan. Don't be so hard on yourself, and don't let some people on an internet forum with a personal hangup about the human body make you feel bad about yourself.

Spot

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Dan,

All I can say is, I can't believe how out of control this whole thing got in less than 24 hours! Amazing.

Now that this is in the Lav Room, I was waiting for Art to weight in on this! :)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Add me to the list of people who think the critics got rabidly out of control. I am sorry that some haters decided to try to screw up your sponsor arrangements.

As to that, you might want to ask Dan to give you the hit numbers on the original posting vs. the hate posts. Show them to your sponsors and see if they think the exposure was a bad thing. For myself, this thread sent me to my LBS, which is a Specialized dealer, to see if they had any in stock (no). It did get me talking about a new bike, so marketing plus accomplished.

Good luck.

Show them to your sponsors and see if they think the exposure was a bad thing.

I posted this on another related thread, but it's worth repeating the point here. I think it was at the time that John McEnroe was at his peak, that Nike decided that any exposure is good if exposure, even when it was your star athlete telling an umpire to, *&^%-off, on national television! It did not seem to hurt Mac's relationship with Nike nor Nike's business. In fact, it made for more exposure and more sales for Nike, so all was good. However, that was also the same time that political correctness started to come more into play. So on one had you have the ad business being more and more bad/risque and you have the PC movment pushing back. Clearly they are meant to meet at some point, and it's not going to be pretty.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Clearly they are meant to meet at some point, and it's not going to be pretty.
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Matter vs. Anti-matter comes to mind and this particular situation was getting pretty close.

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"Yeah you point a finger back far enough and some germ gets blamed for splitting in two."

Colonel Saul Tigh from Battlestar Galactica

I think you have a point with the PC nonsense. Most likely the sponsor rep coming down on the OP is more worried about teh complaints than the larger number of people who had Specialized come up on their radar as a result of the picture.

The internet is not about what is appropirate for a 10 year old. Not so many of them buying $1,000+ bikes. On the other hand, the demographic that does buy those bikes does not have a problem with that picture.

>>The internet is not about what is appropirate for a 10 year old. Not so many of them buying $1,000+ bikes. On the other hand, the demographic that does buy those bikes does not have a problem with that picture. <<

What, are you OZ with the all-seeing crystal ball?

How do you know (1) anyone really complained or (2) that if someone did, that it was someone who actually posted their displeasure?

And more to the point, (3), being of a certain demographic means everyone has the same values and opinions??????? I don't think so. Just from triathletes that I personally know, they run the gamut from ultra-liberal to very, very conservative. I haven't asked them, but I'd bet a lot of money that they have differing opinions of the photo.

I'm sure slowman can tell you, there are LOTS of people who read the forum but who never, ever will post.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I'll chime in and say that I thought the photograph was fun, and that this whole mess that has exploded is completely ridiculous. There are so many more important things to worry about than this, and it certainly did not erode any cornerstones of society or of the not-so-peaceful tribe. I remember hearing about you at the Malibu triathlon last year -- I think it was right before the race started. Your work for MD and CAF is very admirable, and this does not diminish that in any way. It is unfortunate that people choose to characterize it like that.

That said, I hope I don't crash my bike because I spend too much time looking at the next woman I see riding a Specialized.

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there was no one chasing us... distance is its own reward.

“And more to the point, (3), being of a certain demographic means everyone has the same values and opinions??????? I don't think so. Just from triathletes that I personally know, they run the gamut from ultra-liberal to very, very conservative. I haven't asked them, but I'd bet a lot of money that they have differing opinions of the photo.”

That’s a fair point. I have been following this and have been alternatively entertained and annoyed, but always fascinated by the discussion. I have preconceived and unsupported notions of the demographics of Slowtwitch (e.g., primarily college educated or more, above average income or working on it, yada, yada, yada) and it is those demographics that have drawn me to the discussion like a bug to a mosquito zapper. I find it hard to believe that some educated people were as judgmental and provincial as they have been in this thread but there it is for all to see. I was reminded of the TD and SD thread this summer that also brought out these emotions which I also thought were over the top.

We are all prisoners of our own experiences and I come from the era of sex, drugs and rock and roll and perhaps I need to come to grips with the fact that I really am a liberal who votes his tax return and maybe I should quit doing that. Or not....

I have spent part of a career protecting the 1st and 5th amendments so this type of discussion can go on. But watching free discourse is sort of like watching sausage being made - it can be scary. Much of the discussion was really harsh but I guess that is reality.

Regardless, a thought provoking couple of days on ST and that is always a good thing.

Best.
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Born again Heathen
In Case of Keith Moon - Break This Glass
Ironman Certified Coach
USAT Certified Coach
Precision Nutrition Certified

What, are you OZ with the all-seeing crystal ball?

Not so much, but not really necessary here.

How do you know (1) anyone really complained

Reading comprehension.

or (2) that if someone did, that it was someone who actually posted their displeasure?

Going out on a limb on that one, but I am missing the relevance as the OP said sponsors received complaints.

And more to the point, (3), being of a certain demographic means everyone has the same values and opinions???????

Not required. Marketing, of a type, goes for a broad brush. Care to argue that more bikes are sold to guys than girls? That more guys, with an opinion, like the picture than dislike it? As someone else pointed out, the picture went viral. Do you suppose that was because it was disliked?

I'm sure slowman can tell you, there are LOTS of people who read the forum but who never, ever will post.

I agree.

Dan -

I would appreciate it if you could leave a little tombstone where my response was before you deleted. I want people to know you brow beat me into submission with technology. Maybe it could say "self reflection not found here". No wonder these folks act like they do, they just follow your lead.

Bryan

[snip]

you said you could do what i wanted with your post. so i left it up there for the better part of the day so that people could read it and, then, i did what i wanted ;-)

i like you, you're a valuable member here. i have this managerial style, and it is and has been apparent. the style is to let people say what they want to say, and not censor them, unless it gets particularly cruel and callous. then i step in. my other moderators and i seem to be in agreement as to what unacceptable behavior looks like.

what i would prefer to talk about is bikes, and training, and the outdoors, and stuff like that. sometimes people want to talk about other things, especially in winter, and in wintertime things get weird around here. it's cabin fever and triathletes can be excused if their lack of sufficient outlet causes them to take odd turns at the keyboard.

i do not think there was anything so wrong about the specialized woman that she should've been criticized, nor should the OP have been criticized. but maybe i have a blind spot. i think there are several ways to view this: that it's cute and harmless; that it's cute but may not be harmless; that it's offensive on moral grounds; that it's offensive to women; that no, it's not offensive to women; that it's art; that it's not art. triathlon is apolitical in nature, so draws from a wide swathe of politics and morals. that swathe expressed itself.

here's one way to know when a post should be pulled: when just about every agrees it's in exceedingly bad taste. that did occur once in these various threads, i did pull the post, i sent a PM to the person who posted, he apologized, and we went on. otherwise, while there was a variety of views -- some of them i found personally unfortunate -- each view had its set of constituents.

that's pretty typical, it seems to me. we've had the hottie thread, the dirty secrets thread, and other such threads, and there have always been those here who found these discussions troublesome. but the threads march on nonetheless, and most people here are strong enough to live with the criticism by those who find them troubling; and to be among the group that finds these threads troubling.

we are going to start a new forum here, by the way, and it's a women's forum. it won't be for women only, but it'll be for women particularly, and that forum will have its own moderators (women) and i don't think the rules will be quite the same as for the other forums (i don't think misogynistic posts will have a long lifespan on that forum). generally (as you know) i don't like to split up the forum into subforums, but in this case several of the women have asked for it, so we're going to host it -- should be up in a matter of days.

man, there are a LOT of types here. it reminds me of where i live, which is a very rural area where i have maybe 8 or 10 households in a one-mile radius. you wouldn't believe the range of politics among these households. but we had a foot of snow drop yesterday, and power has been out for the better part of the last two days, and the last post i wrote in response to you was authored from a wifi in town a half-hour away, because there was no power in our community. i was in town getting supplies for the others, who were snowbound and couldn't get out. the parallel to those in this forum, to me, is that there are greater things that bind us than separate us, and you don't really think about that stuff until something bigger than you and me happens. then you discover the power and cohesion of the group. i've been bad at leveraging that cohesion we have on this forum, and one of my regrets has been the lack of pursuing that over the years. i'm going to fix that early this year.

all this means i'm less interested in talking about what's wrong with us all as a group, because i don't think there's anything wrong with the group. i think this group is representative of the variety that exists among communities. yes, there's group entropy, but the energy that needs to be put into the system is in the form of leadership and constructive ideas. less guidance, and more modeling good community by example. i hope you'll help, because you've been a model of how to be a good and helpful online community member.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That's cool, and I'm excited that we women will have our own forum! I'm very curious to see how different the tone will be there vs. the main forum or LR.