Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach?
Quote | Reply
I am currently in the business of "coach" hunting. What would be the proper method for finding a coach who meets evidence based criteria. Actually, what is the evidence based criteria?
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [turtlesam] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think the best thing an athlete can do is ask lots of questions:

1. What is your athletic background?
2. What formal training to you have?
3. What athletes have you coached? Can I speak with them?
4. Describe your philosophy so I can compare it to my personal philosophy/availability/commitment?
5. What are your athlete retention levels?
6. Why do athletes leave you? Why do they stay?
7. What significant improvements in your athletes can you cite and WHY did YOU make them occur?
8. How many years have you coached? How many athletes per year? How many athletes currently? How many do you aspire to coach at any given time?
9. What tools do you use to measure progress in an athlete?

BTW, in the interest of full-disclosure, I'm a coach with Wenzel Coaching (www.wenzelcoaching.com) working with both cyclists and triathletes alike. My most-successful season was working with Marc Becker at www.ironguides.net. I'm currently working with Scott McMillan from Factor 9 coaching (www.f9c.com) and I'll be attending a Mitch Gold training camp next March in preparation for IMAZ.

Cheers,
Jonathan C. Puskas

http://wattieink.com/elite-team/
Raising funds to help wounded veterans and racing RAAM 2013 with http://team4mil.org/
"If you are gonna charge... CHARGE HARD!"
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [puskas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thats a pretty comprehensive list you put together- Ditto what you said!

----------------------------------------------------------
I'm just a 10 cent rider on a $2,500.00 Bike

Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [puskas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I wish Marc Becker still posted here... he stirred the shit as much as Paulo... :-)
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [synchronicity] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Did someone mention my name? :-)

In fact, I am back in action coaching full time after a brief hiatus in investment banking. Fees are steep, success is guaranteed, work is plentiful, and I teach you to become your own power meter and heart rate monitor. Life is after all a qualitative experience so we aim to keep it that way.

And you bet, looking for some bitchin' new clients. :-)

Marc

--
ironguides.net : Home of The Method
Join the New Generation of Champions!

--- Your best is our business. ---
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [ironguide] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Marc,

Nice to see you back :)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [ironguide] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Fees are steep, success is guaranteed, work is plentiful...

That is kind of an awesome motto right there.
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [ironguide] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
And you bet, looking for some bitchin' new clients. :-)

That's the only reason you post here, and you know it!

Welcome back :-)))
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
[reply]
[reply]
And you bet, looking for some bitchin' new clients. :-) [/reply]

That's the only reason you post here, and you know it!

Welcome back :-))) [/reply]

NOW things are starting to make LOT of sense

*BillyJ has a Helen-Keller-at-the-water-fountain moment*

I was wondering how (or why) any person could be THAT much of a pr*ck - ALL the time. It's all clear as a bell now. Well I'll be darn! I guess it works!
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [MuffinTop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Other than the "guarantee" part, I thought he was referring to the i-banking industry. Although the cynic in me would have included "value add is minimal"
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [turtlesam] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
   By faith, and faith alone...
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [ironguide] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I found a new signature line....



Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [synchronicity] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm kinda disappointed you didn't use this one

"In fact, when you want to grow your business beyond giving yourself a reach around, as you screw yourself, look me up. Happy to help. " - Rich Strauss
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
OOoohh.. that's a good one....
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [ironguide] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Marc, nice to see that you are back. Are you still based in the Cote d'Azur? I am potentially looking to rent a house in Bourg d'Oisans and have a bunch of North American posers and tristuds over next May for a week of ride till you drop "vertical reality" over many famous cols....a good day should not be based on hours or distance covered, but how many meters of vertical were ascended...
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [turtlesam] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I still would like to see the original question answered.
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [puskas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What does Rene Wenzel say about doping these days?

Personally, I'd have a hard time being associated with a man reported to have settled a doping lawsuit. Perhaps if he came clean and became an outspoken advocate for clean riding, I'd try and understand "the times" the cycling world was in back then and the decisions he made.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/386.0.html
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/9763.0.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Carmichael

By the way, the same goes for Chris Carmichael and CTS, and no, I'm not trying to smear anyone. Were the allegations a factor for you in opting to work for Wenzel Coaching?
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [Tom Fort] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The Team with whom I've worked at Wenzel have all been entirely classy individuals. i've never heard ANY discussion of recommending anything illegal to any of our athletes ever.

While interviewing, I asked about the allegations, received adequate answers, discussed how Wenzel would help me learn/develop as a coach, and decided to join them 7 years ago. It was a good decision and I'm glad to work with each and every member of our coaching staff.

Regards,
Jonathan C. Puskas

http://wattieink.com/elite-team/
Raising funds to help wounded veterans and racing RAAM 2013 with http://team4mil.org/
"If you are gonna charge... CHARGE HARD!"
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [puskas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the direct answer.

It explains your choice to work for Wenzel Coaching, but also leaves me wondering if the staff, starting at the top, are currently actively promoting a strong anti-doping culture, or are merely hoping to have the whole doping issue fade away.
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'll take a shot... ask one question:

Can a coach produce RESULTS across a wide spectrum of athletes and abilities, and are the results verifiable?
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [synchronicity] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Can a coach produce RESULTS across a wide spectrum of athletes and abilities, and are the results verifiable?
Coaching is above all an exercise in communications. A track record of success with a wide spectrum of athletes suggests a coach's understanding of and ability to adapt to different personalities and client lifestyles, and to communicate information in ways or using means easily grasped by the diversity of people he is working with. From that angle, nothing replaces first-hand experience, so if you are seeking a coach it pays to find someone who can relate to your situation. What is your coach's life experience? Has he ever worked and trained? Faced long working hours? How many languages does he speak? Where has he lived? How old is he? What is his approach to the sport? Is he a tri-bible-thumping, key race evangelist, or has he developed his own approach based on experience, knowledge and genuine insight? And so on...

A narrow spectrum of results doesn't necessarily indicate the "intensity" of the coach's result-producing abilities. A coach working with Olympians and top-end athletes may have very little ability to relate to amateur athletes, for example, so that his wealth of knowledge goes untapped or largely unused and hence relatively ineffective with AG athletes, whereas a coach having much ability with amateur athletes may not have the know-how to work with athletes higher up the food chain, and a coach working strictly with those just starting out on the road to fitness may have very little knowledge of a specific sport and is simply a beneficiary of the "couch potato" effect. (That is, take a sedentary person and start training them and you will get a very immediate, high level of results that has little to do with specific know-how.) Each approach works for a different group of athletes.

A client I work with who works 50-55 hour weeks regularly took one minute per week of training off his 1/2 IM time in the first 6 months of training. Nothing complicated, just a simple plan and a lot of repetition, time off when he needed it. But knowing the lifestyle and circumstances helps me structure a plan that is effective in those circumstances without risking overload or stagnation. A personal training client here in the south of France could barely run 2 1/2 minutes at a stretch in July - now he is up to 1:05 non-stop. It isn't rocket science, it is simply adapting one's knowledge to the specific individual and applying the correct approach to them.

Some coaches find the client base they are most comfortable with and choose to focus their efforts there. Inevitably they will produce better results over time with their more focused approach -- after all, the greater anyone's level of fulfillment at what they do, the better the results they produce.

But whatever the coach's perspective, the one common trait the more successful athletes have is a willingness to listen and to act on the advice they receive. It is a giving over to the coach and the method. This implies a high level of ability on the coach's part to communicate effectively and to adapt himself to the client so that this willingness is maintained, kindled and respected, and a level of expertise that is appropriate to the client's goals and abilities.

For example, the success Puskas commented on earlier in this thread came through a great deal of communication, Jon's willingness to listen and let go of what certain things he felt he already knew -- and most importantly, his ability to take that one step further and embrace something new he was unsure of. Jon received no more information than the other athletes I was coaching at the time, but he was able to let go a bit more and entered the race more objectively, lighter, mentally more flexible, which meant, in his own words:


"I told my wife 10 days ago that I'd "never held up to the pressure" at big races. Quite honestly, I wasn't mentally prepared so I always had an excuse (stomach, cramps, mechanicals, blah, blah, blah). The truth was that I'd never truly committed myself completely. Your direction changed that. I came to you because I need help in 2 major areas . . . Psychological and Details . . . the rest I THOUGHT I understood.
". . . Your recommended readings and direct confrontation of my mental preparation helped me reach a new plateau. On race day, the new-found mental focus allowed me to keep my head in tough conditions while others were fading badly. ". . . Overall, I'm really excited. Rachel will tell you that I had tears in my eyes after finishing (long before I'd heard about my placing or qualifying for Kona) because I'd worked hard and accomplished ALL my goals. Thanks for the encouragement, support and occasional kick in the ass . . ."
The truth is that what Jon describes is an attitude and approach to training. A coach first and foremost instills BELIEF in his athletes. That is the FIRE. Once that fire is lit, almost any approach will work. Sometimes a few kicks in the ass are necessary to clear out some of the BS and displace old, worn-out perspectives, values and beliefs. An athlete's willingness to let go even of these will contribute to his level of success. On the coach's part, having a certain level of expertise is critical so you don't ruin the pie you are baking, but without the deepest willingness on both coach's and athlete's part to believe, most approaches are just water on coals, producing a cloud of steam and smoke, a bit of hot air, and a lot of ash.

As for verifiable: Look at the hurdles the athlete has to overcome before you measure success. When you can define what success is, then you can better measure improvement. Some seasons come more loaded with life demands than others, so one person may not go faster at a given IM in successive years, but they may have raced the same split with a new job, new family member, longer working weeks and greater responsibilities, overcoming injuries, and so on -- all that (and more!) might be riding on their shoulders. It's all relative.

Find someone you believe in, find someone whose experiences in life are similar to yours, find someone who has a history in the sport in many different situations, find someone who has first-hand expertise, find someone of whom clients say "He makes me believe in myself" ...and in all likelihood you've got yourself -- your self -- a winner!

:-)

--
ironguides.net : Home of The Method
Join the New Generation of Champions!

--- Your best is our business. ---
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
That's the only reason you post here, and you know it!

Welcome back :-)))

OBRIGADO!!!

It's an ugly ugly business...

--
ironguides.net : Home of The Method
Join the New Generation of Champions!

--- Your best is our business. ---
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [Tom Fort] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Man, every time I see the name Wenzel all I can think of is Charlie Wenzel...


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Marc, nice to see that you are back. Are you still based in the Cote d'Azur? I am potentially looking to rent a house in Bourg d'Oisans and have a bunch of North American posers and tristuds over next May for a week of ride till you drop "vertical reality" over many famous cols....a good day should not be based on hours or distance covered, but how many meters of vertical were ascended...
Dev, thanks. I took a year and spent it in London working 80-hour weeks and decided it's too late in life to be spending that kind of time indoors on my already-too-tight gluteus medius muscles, so now I am back in the sunny south of France.

Your trip sounds good, although dicey weather at that time of year and good likelihood of pass closures.

But here is something of potential interest: Each year I put on a trip over here that sees us ride a solid week across the south of France (Bonifacio, Corsica to the Foix in the Pyrennees this year), winding up with an amateur bike race on a stage of the Tour de France called "L'Etape du Tour." This year the Etape was on the Foix - Loudienvielle stage, 4400m of climbing over 5 cols and 196km. Our trip totaled 1010km in 7 days including race day, with three of us in the top 200 finishers.

Next year we'll be starting in Bonifacio again because the riding on Corsica is stupendous, the weather is great and the food fantastic, and the Etape will likely take place in the Alps as they alternate locations each year. Likely dates are around July 10 as a start date. Price is 2700 EUR, includes all meals and accommodations in 3-4* places, and you get to see a lot of France from the seat of a bike. Here a few pics:





Keep your wheels in motion!

--
ironguides.net : Home of The Method
Join the New Generation of Champions!

--- Your best is our business. ---
Quote Reply
Re: Relating to Paulo's Thread-How does one find an "evidence" based coach? [ironguide] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I like how you think. I wish my better half would let me spend the money on a coach.
Quote Reply

Prev Next