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Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay
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Just wanted to post this here in case anybody was considering purchasing any Zipp handlebars off of ebay. A very alert customer sent us a set of supposed SLC2 handlebars he bought off of ebay when he thought that they were too light (20 grams lighter than advertized) and noticed that the cable grooves ran onto the area intended for placing clip-ons, and was pointing out to us that this was designed very poorly...he was right.

There is more information at our website here: <www.zipp.com>
and here: http://www.zipp.com/...bid/176/Default.aspx

These are full on fake parts designed to look like Zipp stuff, the details show that they are coming from completely different tooling, and they appear to have a very weak (and lightweight) layup. We have taken possession of two of these and are running tests, but preliminary results show that the bars will fracture when installing clip-on extensions, and also will not sustain the minimum load requirement set forth in our safety testing, and we have not yet been able to run fatigue testing, but the minimum load test indicates they should do very poorly. We are considering these bars to be highly unsafe as they were likely never tested to any known standard and probably have little to no design or engineering behind them other than for cosmetics.

We are working with ebay to shut the seller down, but that is easier said than done and after we thought we shut it down the first time, they reappeared, so please beware. We found a company in China trying to sell counterfeit Zipp rims at the Taipei bike show 2 years ago, so this isn't the first time this has happened, but we are doing our best to stay on top of it. If anybody sees anything else suspicious please let us know by calling 800.472.3972

Thanks

http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the heads up.

I will let you know if I come across anything

Cheers,

Paul
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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Scary, you don't want your aerobars failing on you and the damage that kind of thing can do to an entirely innocent brand is enormous.

Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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bump for the Ebay consumers on here. Thanks for the info. Of course buying on ebay should always be caveat emptor, but straightforward fraud sucks!
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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Wow...

Josh, I know this isn't your point, but those are some pretty high-end counterfeits. This doesn't look like something that someone laid in their garage with some cf sheets from home depot.

Shouldn't it be possible to figure out where they're coming from? Wouldn't this have to be a relatively high-end factory?

Also just seems like whoever made this could easily have made a decent set of handlebars themselves, which makes me wonder if they aren't doing that as well. It's surprising - and sad - that they're doing this instead of using their capabilities in a legit manner.

-charles
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]
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How much work went into faking that bar and sticker. I would have never known the difference and if I had I would have guessed that it was because the one I got came from a different batch.
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, zipp is now getting its own fakes on ebay.

Does that mean you guys have made the bigtime?

So hey to Jim, I owe him a beer.
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]
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Odds are China...and you are told "tough shit"

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Odds are China...and you are told "tough shit"

Didn't Tom Demerly write that the best carbon bikes comes out of the Far East. If this is the case, then how can this possibly happen? He had written something about their superior quality control also. Well, I think this has proven my point.

I personally want to know who makes my bike frames. I want to know that this company has a good reputation. For all of us who have been riding bikes for a number of years, do you remember certain bike brands getting a bad name for frames that fail? We got to know which bike manufactures were reliable and which weren't. With today's manufacturing of carbon frames/components we no longer have the same information, because we no longer know who are making these frames/components from year to year.

Until carbon bike makers actually advertise who are making their frames, then how can we trust them not to use the same company which is making bars such as these. Why don't the bike companies want us to know who's manufacturing their frames?

Because if they do, then we will realize that we don't need them as a middle man. Just like the carbon bike manufactures will realize they don't need them either. You see by no longer manufacturing their own bicycles, they are no longer in control of their own destiny. They have become a decal. Once we realize we no longer need their decal, then they will be gone.

Sure this won't happen in the next 5 years, and maybe not the next 10, but it will happen.
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if this is against ebay rules, but could you start some auctions for handlebars or other knock off items that basically warn people of the fakes? Even if you listed as set of bars for retail or above, but at the top of the description put in the notice about the fakes. I'm guessing anyone laying down that much coin for some bars isn't going to only read the 'cheap' ebay listing so maybe they will be warned. That would suck to have your bars fall apart underneath you. Good luck resolving this!

Edit: I just remebered seeing a show on cnbc a few weeks ago about how some big nat'l chains are trying to get ebays help in shutting down auctions with obviously stolen merchandise. Items, like generators, that are for sale for less than HD and others pay for them and HD is the only one that sells some of the items. The end result is that ebay is being very uncooperative so the retailers are doing their own research / investigations to shut these people down.
Last edited by: Dave G: Mar 1, 07 17:57
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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I just hope that nobody gets hurt from the counterfeit bars.

Having sawn apart a few of your items over the years, I would hate to see your good build reputation get ruined by some crook. I know that the fakes will never be even close to your quality. Heck, I am trying to build stuff as good as what you had built nearly twenty years ago...

Good luck on shutting these crooks down.
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [James] [ In reply to ]
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From what I can tell, the quality of Far East carbon is that it can be as bad as it can be good. "Good Composite Construction" is as unrealistic of a generalisation as the old generalisation of "Taiwanese junk".

The unfortunate thing about supposedly custom carbon frames is that any Tom, Dick or Gordon can go to a supplier, buy some Taiwanese-made parts, glue them together, and say s/he made a carbon bike. Deda and Columbus both have well-made Taiwanese frame parts that are for both "custom" and T-shirt sized bikes. The cost of some of the frame components are expensive, but the amount of work on the builder's end is small, and could be completed with relatively unsophisticated tooling (I am thinking of Columbus Mechano, if it hasn't been discontinued already).

If I were to start building bikes for sale, I would make my own lugs and rear stays and use tubing made in the USA by MacClean composites. I wouldn't even mess with my own monocoques, as the UCI rules have rendered interesting bikes obsolete for the most part, save for Jim Felt's latest effort.
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [bunnyman] [ In reply to ]
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Post the username of the crook that is trying to sell dangerous stuff

---------------------------
"This wheel definitely beat the 808 in this test, no question, and I do commend Hed on producing a really fast wheel...the wheel is fast, I am not disputing that." - joshatzipp on the Stinger 9
My Website
HEDmafia.com
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [James] [ In reply to ]
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This might help, a little bike genealogy:

From: http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328

Where was my bike made? Or, who actually made my bike?
Revised December 12, 2006

(Kerry Roberts is the owner of The Bicycle Company, the parent company of Allanti Bicycle Company, the Bike Pedlar, and The Jolly Cyclist in Nashville, Tennessee. He also provides consulting services to the bicycle industry.

The information contained in this report comes primarily from Bicycle Retailer and Industry News' 2007 Factory and Suppliers Guide, published in the October 1, 2006, issue. Bicycle Retailer and Industry News is the definitive trade publication in the bicycle industry. Other sources of information include trade show and factory visits, technical writers in the cycling media, and bicycle company employees who wish to remain anonymous.)


Some bike companies have a few secrets. And one of those secrets is where your bike is made or who actually made it. The bike companies like it that way because many of them rely upon the same factories to build their bikes!

The big picture is pretty clear: most of the bikes sold in the U.S. are made in China or Taiwan by a handful of manufacturers of which Giant is the largest.

Generally speaking, low to mid level bikes are made in China and mid to high level bikes are made in Taiwan.

Bikes are produced in other countries, but Asian factories probably produce 95% of the units sold in the United States. Incidentally, the "big three" (Giant, Trek, and Specialized) account for almost 80% of all bikes sold in U.S. bike shops.

Another part of the big picture is that the sticker on your bike that says "Made in Country X" doesn't necessarily mean what you think! It can actually mean one of three things:

One, it can mean that the frame was made in Country X and assembled into a complete bicycle in Country X. For example, Brand Y actually builds the frame in Country X and puts it on their assembly line to assemble it into a complete bicycle with Shimano components from Japan, wheels, handlebars, stem, and seat post from Taiwan, tires from Germany, and a seat and handlebar tape from China. The sticker on the bike says "Made in Country X" when only the frame and the final assembly were done in Country X (using components from other countries). That's accepted and no one complains.

Two, it can mean that the frame was made in Taiwan (or wherever) and imported into Brand Y's home country of X. The frame goes through the exact same assembly process and receives the same "Made in Country X" sticker. The only difference is that the frame was made in Taiwan, not Country X. This practice is a little more controversial, but it occurs frequently with European brands. In my opinion, it would clear up quite a bit of confusion is the stickers said "Assembled in Country X."

Three, in the case of a frame only, it can mean the frame was made in Taiwan (or wherever) and imported into Brand Y's home country of X for finishing and painting. This is very common with high-end brands - especially European-brand carbon frames. The frame gets a sticker that says "Made in Country X." I don't agree with this. Consumers are entitled to a transparent process with accurate information that is not misleading.

With these things in mind, here is an alphabetical brand by brand run down of the bikes sold in Nashville, with a few bits of trivia.

Bianchi - As of this writing, Bianchi and Schwinn have remarkably similar histories. Both were turn-of-the-century family-owned companies, manufactured their own bicycles, were popular brands in their respective countries, fell upon hard times, were eventually sold, moved substantially all of their production to Asia, and have seen a resurgence in the past few years under new owners!

In 1996, Bianchi was sold to a Swedish conglomerate (now known as Cycleurope1) whereas Schwinn went through several owners before winding up with Pacific in 2001.2

Under Cycleurope, which owns 11 bicycle brands,3 much of the bicycle production shifted from Italy to Asia, with the exception of some final bicycle assembly (i.e., Asian frames assembled into complete bicycles) and limited high-end production.

Let me take a minute and address Reparto Corse bicycles, because their "Made in Italy" sticker is a source of confusion.

The historic Treviglio factory - a monstrosity of a thing which used to house much of Bianchi's manufacturing before it shifted to Asia - has a section dedicated to Reparto Corse. It used to be that Reparto Corse (RC) meant the race department where high-end bikes were made. Now it is used as sort of a branding logo to identify the upper-end bikes that get the RC design and marketing treatment.

Many of the RC bikes have a "Made in Italy" sticker, which usually means assembled in Italy using a frame made in Asia. For example, the carbon RC frames are made by Advanced International Multitech (a Taiwanese carbon manufacturer of bike parts, baseball bats, golf shafts, arrows, fishing poles, etc.) and the aluminum frames are made by Taiwan Hodaka.

There are some frames still welded at Treviglio. My understanding is that the aluminum frames with carbon rears are either welded there or, at least, bonded there. I also understand that the frames with foam injection have the injection process completed there, even if the frames come from Asia.

Although Taiwan Hodaka manufacturers many of Bianchi's U.S. models, Fairly and Giant have manufactured for Bianchi in the past.

Cannondale - Aluminum Cannondales are made in the U.S. Cannondale, which was owned by founder Joe Montgomery and his son Scott. Cannondale is now owned by its key investment fund after experiencing financial problems. Cannondale's market share appears to have diminished but stabilized. Because it is owned by an investment fund, it is constantly rumored for sale. The carbon bikes are sourced from Asia.

Colnago - In 1944, when Ernesto Colnago served as a 12-year old apprentice in the shop of Dante Fumagalli, did he have any idea he would become the most famous of all Italian frame builders?

Colnago is, perhaps, the most coveted of all professional-quality bicycle brands - just look at the pages of VeloNews or Pro Cycling and see how many professional riders race on Colnagos!

Frames are still hand-made in Italy, except for three entry level aluminum models made in Taiwan (probably by Giant) and the carbon CLX, which is also made in Taiwan.4

De Rosa - De Rosa is an Italian company that is one of the Italian "big three" that includes Colnago and Pinarello. Ugo De Rosa, along with his sons, have been building bikes for over 50 years. As far as I know, all bikes are made in Italy.

Ducati - Bianchi has announced a licensing agreement with Ducati to produce a line of bikes with the Ducati name. It is my understanding that the frames will be sourced from Asia with the final assembly at Treviglio.

Felt - Felt is a fairly new bicycle company, started by motocross guru Jim Felt. All production comes from Asia.

Fisher - Gary Fisher is the "godfather" of mountain bikes. After struggling with his own bicycle company, he sold his brand to Trek Bicycle Company. Still involved in designing and marketing his brand, Gary is a popular figure at bicycle industry events. He's sort of a cult figure with an unmatched sense of fashion! Fisher bikes are made in Asia, except for the full-suspension rigs (which are made in Wisconsin).

Fuji - Fuji is now owned by Ideal, who manufacturers most of their bikes. Ideal is one of the key Taiwanese manufacturers along with Giant and Merida. Ideal also manufactures for other brands. Topkey of China manufacturers Fuji's carbon frames.

Giant - You may have ridden a bicycle made by Giant without knowing it! Giant is the world's largest bicycle manufacturer with factories in Taiwan, China, and Europe. Giant, a Taiwanese company started in 1972, manufacturers their own bikes - including the carbon bikes, which is unique in the industry (i.e., most other brands utilize other manufacturers such as Advanced or Martec).

In addition to making their own bikes, Giant also makes, or has made, bikes for many other prominent brands, including Trek, Specialized, Schwinn, and Bianchi. Giant's claim to fame is that they have the most sophisticated and efficient manufacturing facilities in the bicycle industry.

A bit of trivia is that Giant owns 30% of Hodaka, a key Taiwanese supplier for many brands such as Bianchi.5

Giant also sponsors the T-Mobile professional cycling team.

Haro - a California BMX company started in 1977 by Bob Haro. All production comes from Asia. Haro owns the Masi brand. Kenstone, with factories in Tawan and China, is a key supplier.

Kestrel - Kestrel, an early pioneer in carbon frames, introduced the first production non-lugged carbon frame in 1986. Originally, frames were manufactured in California. In recent years, production shifted to Asia. The frames appear to be made by Martec.

Kona - a California company with all production from Asia. Kona, founded in 1988, is a very small company similar in size to Marin. Fairly and Hodaka in Taiwan are key suppliers.

Kuota - Kuota frames are made in Taiwan by Martec, the same manufacturer that makes Kestrel frames. Kuota is a creation of Sintema, an Italian manufacturer of components. Basically, they designed the frames, had the frames manufactured in Taiwan, and marketed the brand heavily in the U.S., Western Europe, and Australia. Kuota has been a successful brand launch in a very short period of time.

LeMond - Greg LeMond is the first American to win the Tour de France, winning in 1986, 1989, and 1990. LeMond also won three World Championships and the Tour DuPont. His career was cut short by lead poisoning from a hunting accident. LeMond's early bikes were made by Roberto Bilatto in Italy and distributed by a now-defunct company named Ten Speed Drive Imports. The Bilatto-made frames are somewhat collectible.

After an attempt to have an independent bike company, LeMond licensed his brand to Trek Bicycle Company.6 Trek now designs and markets his bikes, which are made in Asia except for the spine bikes featuring OCLV carbon (which are made in Wisconsin).

A bit of LeMond trivia is that he helped develop the first aerobar with Scott and used it in his amazing come-from-behind victory in the 1989 Tour de France.7

Litespeed - Starting in the 1980's, Litespeed was a pioneer in titanium frame building. As their reputation grew, a steady stream of cycling legends came to Litespeed for their titanium expertise. For many years, Litespeed built frames for famous brands such as DeRosa, Merckx, Basso, LeMond, Tommassini, and others.8

Litespeed was, for a period of time, the largest manufacturer of high-end bicycles in the world. All bikes, including the Merlin brand that they own, are made in Tennessee except for the carbon Pavia (which has been discontinued). The Quintana Roo brand is also owned by Litespeed but is made in Asia.

Look - Look is a French company with frames made in France and Asia. Look is also a leading pedal brand.

Marin - a California company with production from Asia, except for a handful of high-end models. Marin is a very small company similar in size to Kona. Key Asian suppliers are A-Pro, Fairly, and Sunrise.

Masi - Faliero Masi was, in my opinion, the "grandfather" of all Italian frame builders, serving as inspiration to famous frame builders like Ernesto Colnago. Faliero sold his company to Americans in the early 70's. Since then, the brand has had several owners including Schwinn! At present, the Masi brand is owned by Haro (the California BMX company)9 and the bikes are made in Asia.

One of my favorite frames was a made-in-Italy Nuovo Strada that I bought from Cumberland Transit in the 80's. Unfortunately, it was stolen in the 90's!

Alberto Masi, Faliero's son, still hand-makes the traditional Masi frames in the shadow of the Vigorelli Velodrome in Milan. Unfortunately, these frames - due the licensing of the Masi name to Haro - are not sold in the U.S.10

Merlin - see Litespeed.

Olmo - Olmo is a prominent brand in Italy. Traditionally, Olmo has been made in Italy. I don't have any information on whether any models are made in Asia.

Orbea - Orbea is one of the two large Spanish bicycle manufacturers. It is sort of like Spain's version of Trek or Schwinn. Bikes are produced in Spain and Asia. High-end carbon frames are made in Asia and "finished" (i.e., painted) in Spain.

From Bicycle Retailer and Industry News:

Orbea builds aluminum frames in-house. Carbon fiber frame production, which accounts for half of its road bikes, up from 20 percent just three years ago, is outsourced to such Chinese specialists as Martec.

But unlike many bike makers who are content to tweak stock factory frames, Orbea does all of its carbon fiber frame design, engineering and prototyping in-house. It builds its own molds for new frames and assembles several dozen prototypes before handing off manufacturing instructions to China.

"We need to keep and develop our own knowledge of composites and carbon fiber, and then to find someone who can work with us to build what we want them to build," Joseba Arizaga (Orbea's marketing manager) said. "We make the molds, the first frames, everything here in Orbea. Then, when we are ready to do mass production, we send the instructions to Asia." 11

Raleigh - A few years ago, the U.S. management team, headed by former Murray exec Bill Austin, bought Raleigh from its U.K. owners. Headquartered in Kent, Washington, production comes from Asia, with key suppliers being Kinesis and A-Pro.

Schwinn - Schwinn was for many years the largest American brand. All bicycles were made domestically until the late 80's.

In 1985, Schwinn management called mountain bikes a "fad" - oops.12 After two bankruptcies, Schwinn is now owned by Pacific, who also owns GT, Mongoose, and the Pacific (and some other brands). Pacific is headquartered in Madison, Wisconsin.

Under Pacific's ownership, the Schwinn brand is returning to prominence. Pacific sells more bicycles than any other brand in North America. However, that includes Pacific brands sold at WalMart, Target, etc.13

The bikes sold in the U.S. are made in Asia, many by Giant.

Scott USA - Scott got its start in Sun Valley, Idaho, when Ed Scott developed the first aluminum ski pole in 1958. In the 80's, Scott developed a bike line.

Eventually, Scott pulled out of the U.S. market and focused on Europe, where Scott is headquartered.14

After an absence of several years, Scott has returned to the U.S. market under the direction of Scott Montgomery of Cannondale fame. Although the company is headquartered in Switzerland, production comes from Asia, with key suppliers being Hodaka and Giant.

Serotta - Serotta is a U.S. manufacturer of high-end bicycles. It competes with Seven and Waterford and is of similar size to Waterford.

Seven - Seven is America's number one custom bicycle brand. Seven Cycles was founded by Rob Vandermark in early 1997.

Rob, previously head of R&D at Merlin Metalworks, decided to branch out on his own and develop a company to build high-end titanium and steel frames. He also wanted to offer the rider custom geometry, without extra charges and long lead times. So Rob assembled a team of experienced craftspeople who all shared a common goal: To build the highest quality, most innovative frames, and therefore provide the cyclist with the best riding experience possible.

All bikes are hand-made in Watertown, Massachusetts.

Specialized - Started in 1974 by Mike Sinyard, Specialized has enjoyed a long-standing reputation for being a leading bicycle design and marketing company.

Several years ago, Merida (a Taiwanese manufacturer) bought a substantial interest in Specialized. Although Specialized is still headquartered in California under the leadership of founder Mike Sinyard, all bikes are made in Asia. Key Asian suppliers are Merida, Ideal, and Giant.

Time - Time produces what is arguably the most advanced carbon frame in the world and all frames are hand-made in France, even the entry level frames.

Trek - It's hard to believe that America's largest bicycle brand had humble beginnings in a barn! Yet in 1976, Dick Burke - with an investment of $25,000 - started making bicycle frames in a little red barn near Madison, Wisconsin. By 1980, Trek built their first manufacturing plant in Wisconsin and the rest, as they say, is history!15

After many years of making its own bicycles in the U.S., Trek moved entry and mid level bicycle manufacturing to Asia.

In 1992, Trek introduced its proprietary OCLV carbon process (Optimum Compaction Low Void) which is still used in its handmade carbon frames. All OCLV carbon frames - road and mountain - are still made in Waterloo, Wisconsin. The all-carbon 5000 (which does not feature OCLV) is made in Asia.

Worldwide, Trek is the second largest bicycle company after Giant (of the brands sold only in bicycle stores). They are one of the most sought-after brands by U.S. dealers because of their strong commitment to brick and mortar bicycle stores (i.e., the brand cannot be sold mail order or over the Internet) and because of their dealer-friendly policies.

Trek owns (or licenses) Fisher, LeMond, Klein, and Bontrager.

Tommasini - Tommasini is a small Italian frame builder in Grosseto, Italy, of similar size to Seven, Waterford, and Serotta. Much of Tommasini's production is exported out of Italy, with their largest markets being the U.S., Germany, and Japan. In September 2006, Irio Tommasini's nieces took over U.S. distribution and are relaunching the brand in the U.S.16

Waterford - Waterford is America's number one steel custom bicycle brand. All bikes are hand-made in Waterford, Wisconsin.

In the late 1970's, a young rider, designer and builder named Marc Muller was hired by the Schwinn Bicycle Company. He brought the experience and innovation from his own framebuilding enterprise and took charge of building the Paramounts, the dominant brand of American-build racing bicycles.

In the early 1980's, Marc moved the Paramount factory to Waterford, Wisconsin and continued building elite bicycles and also created a cycling design laboratory.

Marc and his staff introduced a number of key innovations including oversized tubing (one of the most significant advances in frame design), 26" wheels, cast-in cable guides and a patented full suspension system. These advances allowed them to design and build bikes for National and World champions such as Ned Overand, Marc Allen, Mike Engleman, Tom Prehn and many others.

In 1993, Marc Muller and Richard Schwinn, great-grandson of Ignaz Schwinn, bought the Paramount factory and renamed it Waterford Precision Cycles.17

Marc is now one of the most respected bike designers in the entire bicycle industry. And Waterford, with a one hundred year heritage in bicycle manufacturing, continues to make a winning, world class frames one at a time.

Waterford is 90 minutes north of Chicago. If you visit Chicago, feel free to call for a factory tour.
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [James] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Odds are China...and you are told "tough shit"

I personally want to know who makes my bike frames. I want to know that this company has a good reputation.
I agree. I met the person who made my Litespeed for me...it is the best bike I have ever had. I have no hesitation about my new Planet X being as if it is good enough for Gordo - I wont be able to live up to the performance of the frame - but there will always be a soft spot in my heart, and the first bike I grab will be my Litespeed.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [bunnyman] [ In reply to ]
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I wholely agree with that approach. However, MacQC has also begun moving a large portion of their tubing business over seas. On the positive side, at least I trust their QC. Sadly, This isnt always the case when dealing with foreign vendors. Ignorance and greed can blur the lines between good products and junk. An unscrupulous manufacturer can ruin the progress others have made.

-Pete S.

Long Standing Champion of the Training Trifecta
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [campled] [ In reply to ]
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Not all the Cannondale Carbon products are made overseas. The synapse, Rush Carbon, and taurine are souced in China, but the System 6, 613 Team/Pro, 613 Slice, super6 are built in Bedford, PA.

-Pete S.

Long Standing Champion of the Training Trifecta
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [campled] [ In reply to ]
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Do I smell rice burning from those Cervelo's?
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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I just wanted to bump this and add an update. We got a set of these in yesterday from a guy who had bought a pair of these and had not installed them after hearing about the fakes through the ST grapevine, after looking at the website he determined they were fake and contacted us. Apparently the seller is using new ebay ID's and trying to convince buyers to take the sale offline to 'avoid paypal or ebay fees' and of course avoid any recourse by the buyer. We have a guy scanning ebay for these things every day, but ebay is really less than helpful on these matters, so sadly one of our guys who should be on the phones answering customer questions is spending a large part of his day trying to track down the loser who is counterfeiting our stuff. After our warning that no Zipp dealer is authorized to sell Zipp product on ebay the scam has moved from a new bar being sold by a 'bikeshop', to the seller either using a new ebay account and trying to get the buyer to take it offline, or by this person contacting parties who bid on Zipp handlebars in legitimate auctions and trying to get them to buy from him offline. We have multiple reports from people being contacted by a third party private message on ebay trying to sell them Zipp bars outside of ebay or paypal, so apparently this individual is looking at who is bidding on zipp bars in other auctions and then contacting them to try and make a sale offline. We also have now at least one instance of somebody reselling a counterfeit bar on ebay which they had originally bought on ebay and were reselling for fear that it was counterfeit (which it was). So this whole thing now sucks on multiple levels and has involved way too many people.

Anyway, please spread the word to your friends and to any other forums you may frequent about this issue, and please beware when buying anything on ebay, particularly if the seller is requesting that you take the sale outside of ebay or paypal, . As always, if you have any questions about this or anything else please feel free to give us a call at 800.472.3972.
Thanks
Josh

http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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Josh isn't imitation a sign that you're big time.

Has Zipp ever thought of engraving an ID just inside one of the holes or putting some type of identification inside the bar where it could not be accessed (RFID)? Also applies to your wheels. Thought being that in the event of a failure you have your ass covered beyond any doubt when the family members start looking at the back of the phone book.

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Brawndo's got what plants crave. Brawndo's got electrolytes. And that's what plants crave. They crave electrolytes. Which is what Brawndo has. And that's why plants crave Brawndo. Not water, like from the toilet.
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [Nakima] [ In reply to ]
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We have worked with RFID for a few years and use it to track process and production control within the factory, and I guess it could be used to prove after the fact that the product is fake, but that doesn't necessarily mean much to the back of the phonebook crowd. Unfortunately there is no way to put a sticker or anything on the product to prove it is legitimate, and RFID chip could do it, but hten the consumer would have to have a reader to read the chip... Even those little hologram things are so easily faked anymore... There is a serial number inside the bar, and these fakes do not have it, they also do not have the yellow warning sticker on them as shown on our website...they also don't have the correct packaging...so there are quite a few things missing, but of course our pointing these out for the customers sake really just tells the counterfeiter how to make their product seem less fake.

You can see the serial number sticker inside the drop of the bar on the photo with the yellow warning sticker..
http://www.zipp.com/...bid/176/Default.aspx


The other ebay listing is for a Contour Bar, and to my knowledge there have only been fake SLC2 bars on ebay, and we think that the counterfeiter may also try to pass this bar off as an SL bar by changing the decals as the two look quite similar.

http://www.SILCA.cc
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Re: Warning: FAKE Zipp Handlebars on Ebay [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]
We have a guy scanning ebay for these things every day, but ebay is really less than helpful on these matters, [/reply]

Ebay is helpful if you are a SELLER but they don't want to waste their time with a BUYER or especially 3rd parties (like Zipp) who aren't involved in improving Ebay's profit.
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