Yeh , just look at the way Mickey trained Rocky.

There were no phd's there...

Great point man.

Why don't you launch that thread? It seems it would be a good discussion.

Beef is so expensive nowadays , just bring your wife to the garage.

Jack Daniel's, was a two-time Olympian and medalist, so I'm not sure it is fair to leave "Athlete" off his description.
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Sorry. Brain fart on my part.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Half IM training is "supposedly" very similar to Oly training (discalimer: I am outside of my element here so take it with a grain of salt). I would imagine that, depending on the individual, V02max training becomes less and less of a pritority to the point where it may make sense not to do any for some people.

Your 1st priority is always to get a solid base of easier running under your belt (like Dev. said). Your next priority is to do a lot of LT training (20 to 40 minute runs @ 1 HOUR race pace).

From what I understand of IM training, you have to be in pretty darn good shape to need to shift from high volume to LT training. This is the Gordo approach. Paulo may disagree.....though I'll let him answer for himself.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Ken,

I see several elite runners on bikes and in the pool. I can crush them all (in the pool), but they run almost as fast as I cycle.

Dave

I like the idea of LIMITING intervals to short/specific periods of time. Too many people do either: 1) no intervals or 2) year round similar intervals. I also really like Daniels paces - distance/tempo/interval/repeat (and MP).

The things that confuses me about your thread is:

1) R-pace or I-pace? Daniels terms. 3-5 min seems long for R-pace but it looks like you are advocating R-pace here?

2) Work to rest interval seems low. I thought Daniels likes long rest with complete recovery for R-pace, and I thought even at least 1:1 with I-pace.

I'll blow up trying to run 3-5 min repeats at 3-5K pace for 6-8K. Lets say I can run a 20 min 5K - or a bit under 6:30's. I'd have to run 8-10 1/2 mile repeats at about 3:10. Ouch. That would fry my legs for a couple days.

I haven't looked at Daniels book for a while so my memory could be off....

Thanks for the posts - I do like them.

Dave

I agree with everything you wrote about R pace, except *I* am refering to I pace. R pace is supposed to be significantly quicker, close to mile race pace. For you, that would likely be roughly 5:40 pace.

_______________________________________________"I'll blow up trying to run 3-5 min repeats at 3-5K pace for 6-8K. Lets say I can run a 20 min 5K - or a bit under 6:30's. I'd have to run 8-10 1/2 mile repeats at about 3:10. Ouch. That would fry my legs for a couple days. "


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It's good that you know that. Everyone is different and you need to figure out what YOU can handle. The goal is NOT to blow up and take a couple of days to recover. From my experience dealing with runners, 8 shouldn't be a problem. You can run 6 of them without ANY breaks (I call that a race), it's odd that you can't do 8 with 7 2:30 minute breaks in between.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Barry -

I pulled out my book - looks like my memory wasn't so good....he does define I-pace as 3K-5K pace and likes rest <=work. I was 0/2. Maybe I'll try some once I get my running base in....although I'm going to go a tad slower and do a tad fewer.

Side note that I find interesting - Yasso 800's seem to be this work-out. If you run about 20 min 5K - IDEAL marathon is about 3:10 so you should run your Yasso's = 10x800 on 3:10. very similar?

Thanks,

Dave

Yes, yes. VERY similar ; )

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Being swimming the sport that beats *you* up the least, will the same principle of building a big base first and then transition to speedwork once closer to the race (like running) apply to swimming training as well? in others words, can we get in swimming race shape by incorporating more intensity and lower volume during the base period (instead of just big volume, no intensity) and then closer to the race just focus on intensity only?


thanks

is there any way besides heart reate to get a rough idea of how fast to do a tempo run at. i'm just not sure exactly how to judge where my lt threshold is. like lets say that my mile time is 5:15, what would be a range that i should be looking to tempo run at?

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>if you can't win, make the guy ahead of you break the record

I'm not Barry. But I would say in the 6:15'ish range for Tempo.

But, I'd like to see your current 5K, 10K times to be more sure.

Why don't you start a new thread with your post? It's interesting, but buried here at the end of this mess.

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/...unningcalculator.htm



Here is a link to a calculator that I got off of a different post. After you enter your distance and time it gives you time targets. I haven't used them yet, but they look pretty close to other books/training manuals I've read.

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Chris Hurrell
http://www.thecompletetriathlete.com

What tridude said.

6:15ish sounds right. As a rule of thumb, you should only need to add 15 to 17 seconds per mile every time you double your race distance (assuming a well trained distance runner over 18).

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

What's all this talk of education? Surely, in quite a few industries you can learn as much, if not more, in your day to day job than you would studying for some graduate degree that won't get you a pay rise?

Maybe I'm just talking from the perspective of my own career though, as I've been considering going back to do post grad but can't really justify it other than as an attempt to 'escape from the real world'.