So I guess this race is coming up this weekend and as usual has quite a few KM of cobbles. Do the pros set up their bikes any different for this race (ie, wider tires, more robust frame, heavier wheels)? Sounds like it must beat the crap out of you. Any ST's out there ever watched the race? What is it like?
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Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
The other name for Paris Roubaix is L'Enfer du Nord or Hell of the North. It can be an absolutly brutal race for the riders and there equipment. The various sections of cobble stone roads range from bad to terrible. The most notorious being the 3k stretch through the Arenberg Forest - ironically, scene of some particularly gruesome battles during the first World War.
Mechanics/riders do a variety of things to make the bike more comfortable and durable. Typically it's box rims with the absolute best and most bombproof tires on the wheels. Perhaps an extra role of bar tape on the handle bars or some form of gel padding under the bar wrap. Front and even rear road specific shocks were seen a number of years ago, but they have disappeared now.
It's become a bit of a specialists race these days with only the biggest, strongest Spring Classic specialists with the strongest support teams focussing on the event. Last years winner and this years favourite, Tom Boonen, personifies the type of rider that Paris-Roubaix is all about.
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Mechanics/riders do a variety of things to make the bike more comfortable and durable. Typically it's box rims with the absolute best and most bombproof tires on the wheels. Perhaps an extra role of bar tape on the handle bars or some form of gel padding under the bar wrap. Front and even rear road specific shocks were seen a number of years ago, but they have disappeared now.
It's become a bit of a specialists race these days with only the biggest, strongest Spring Classic specialists with the strongest support teams focussing on the event. Last years winner and this years favourite, Tom Boonen, personifies the type of rider that Paris-Roubaix is all about.
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Actually Discovery used Trek's new SPA technology last year and will use againg this year. It's a shock absorber at the top of the seatstay wishbone. Most teams run thicker tires and have frames with more tire clearance. They usually run 32 spoke wheels that are used only for P-R. Some teams have even been using extra brake levers under the tops. Most will either use extra padding or gel inserts on the handlebars.
______________________________________________________
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Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
this page says all that need be said about Paris-Roubaix.
----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
The photo of Hincapie on ----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
That is a great picture. I haven't looked at a roster, but I will be rooting for Hincapie if he is riding it again. Last year's finish was probably the my favorite moment watching cycling on TV.
Last edited by:
stl_triness: Apr 6, 06 13:02
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
Both Pezcyclingnews.com and cyclingnews.com have had information on riding the cobbles and bikes in the past. I've ridden the Arenberg Foret and other cobbles (Tour stage 2004 where Mayo crashed) and they are crazy to ride. I can't imagine it (1) at the speeds the Tour guys do and (2) with hundreds of people crowding the (very narrow) roads.
Arenberg:
Near the start at Compiegne:
Some of the nicer pave':
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Arenberg:
Near the start at Compiegne:
Some of the nicer pave':
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [ironclm]
[ In reply to ]
Cathy,
Great pics. Thanks for sharing/ Looks so different at Arenberg with leaves on the trees and the sun shining!
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Great pics. Thanks for sharing/ Looks so different at Arenberg with leaves on the trees and the sun shining!
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
Ken,
Indeed, that is one of the classic PR shots of all time.
Amazing.
The big question for Sunday - Can Hincapie get himself in a postion to take big Tom Boonen?
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Indeed, that is one of the classic PR shots of all time.
Amazing.
The big question for Sunday - Can Hincapie get himself in a postion to take big Tom Boonen?
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
We were talking about this last night at a bike club meeting. One of our guys that has ridden the course and spectated it a few times pointed a few things out.
The PR cobbles are horrible compared to the Flanders race.
Tourist riders usually put a ton of foam on the bars, and it still beats the hell out of you.
Most of the racers are on Tubulars and the tires are not the "normal" road ones but have been ordered and made up for that race.
More and more carbon wheels are showing up, but the journeyman wheel is still the box rim 32-36 hole.
Some do pad their bars extra.
Some teams/guys have tried shocks and trick stuff, but most ride a regular diamond frame with a bit more clearance for mud. He wasn't too sure if the frame geometry changed by looking at the bikes.
Not that hard to get close to the riders at all.
You can tip over real easy riding the cobbles.
It is easier to try and take them fast as to go slow, like a rock skipping on a lake. instead of falling into the great holes between the individual cobbles.
That is one of the best weeks you could go to spectate in Europe. Get to see three spring classics in one week, ride the course the day before. And PR you can see the race go by three times by using the highway instead of the course. His words not mine, as I have never been.
The PR cobbles are horrible compared to the Flanders race.
Tourist riders usually put a ton of foam on the bars, and it still beats the hell out of you.
Most of the racers are on Tubulars and the tires are not the "normal" road ones but have been ordered and made up for that race.
More and more carbon wheels are showing up, but the journeyman wheel is still the box rim 32-36 hole.
Some do pad their bars extra.
Some teams/guys have tried shocks and trick stuff, but most ride a regular diamond frame with a bit more clearance for mud. He wasn't too sure if the frame geometry changed by looking at the bikes.
Not that hard to get close to the riders at all.
You can tip over real easy riding the cobbles.
It is easier to try and take them fast as to go slow, like a rock skipping on a lake. instead of falling into the great holes between the individual cobbles.
That is one of the best weeks you could go to spectate in Europe. Get to see three spring classics in one week, ride the course the day before. And PR you can see the race go by three times by using the highway instead of the course. His words not mine, as I have never been.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
I say No, but would be happy to be proven wrong.
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [JulianInEngland]
[ In reply to ]
----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks! That day was my personal highlight of the trip.
>>Can Hincapie get himself in a postion to take big Tom Boonen?<<
George hasn't had the best of luck at PR, but I hope this is his year. No punctures, no riding off into the ditch--remember 2002. Who was his Postal teammate who was with him and then carried on to take 3rd place?
Man, a trip to the Classics would be a BLAST!
clm
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
>>Can Hincapie get himself in a postion to take big Tom Boonen?<<
George hasn't had the best of luck at PR, but I hope this is his year. No punctures, no riding off into the ditch--remember 2002. Who was his Postal teammate who was with him and then carried on to take 3rd place?
Man, a trip to the Classics would be a BLAST!
clm
clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [G-man]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
I notice Ken how you used "may", so you don't believe it, eh? P-R is the sort of race that a strong single rider can suceed in more than most road races. And let's face it Boonen meets that criteria.
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
People may be interested in looking at the whole series of pictures from the 1999 Paris Roubaix where Ken's picture of George Hincapie came from - one of the most ugly years in recent memory:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...roubaix/photos.shtml
If you are ever considering not riding because of the weather or the road conditions, have a look at this series. Get out and ride!!
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...roubaix/photos.shtml
If you are ever considering not riding because of the weather or the road conditions, have a look at this series. Get out and ride!!
Fleck
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [JulianInEngland]
[ In reply to ]
----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
Very astute comment, Ken. I shall be watching.
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [ironclm]
[ In reply to ]
George had even worse luck last year, when he pulled into the Roubaix veledrome with Tom Boonen.
Ken--he doesn't need 15 QS riders to win this race--just one Boonen.
The only way for George to win this will be to pull into the veledrome alone...
and as I said earlier, this is (one of) the best weeks in cycling.
Ken--he doesn't need 15 QS riders to win this race--just one Boonen.
The only way for George to win this will be to pull into the veledrome alone...
and as I said earlier, this is (one of) the best weeks in cycling.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
Actually Van Heeswijk is out, and Gusev is likely to be there in the end with Hoste and Hincapie as Devolder is not going as well as they hoped. Hammond is likely to race, even with 50 stitches.
Jack
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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Jack
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [eganski]
[ In reply to ]
That's how I read it too. Be nice to see George go for it though.
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
"The race no one wants to ride, yet everyone wants to win"
I'm riding P-R Amateur this June and absolutely cannot wait.
http://asso.nordnet.fr/...me/PRxPrincipale.htm
I'm riding P-R Amateur this June and absolutely cannot wait.
http://asso.nordnet.fr/...me/PRxPrincipale.htm
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [JulianInEngland]
[ In reply to ]
Lets say a group of 3-5 riders show up in the drome together. How many times out of ten do you think George will beat Boonen? My wild ass guess would be maybe 2 or three tops. PR also takes a lot of luck on position and not having a mechanical/tire issue.
Then there are a bunch of tough guys to contend with as well. Go Big Maggie
Then there are a bunch of tough guys to contend with as well. Go Big Maggie
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [ironclm]
[ In reply to ]
"Who was his Postal teammate who was with him and then carried on to take 3rd place?"
Boonen was told to ride; George bonked like a mofo. The interviews of George in the showers afterwards were absolutely painful to watch, he was so bummed out. I remember thinking he and Tommeke had it made once Michaelson and Max crashed, but alas, not to be. Once you saw how short the pulls George took were vs. Boom-Boom, it was easy to see it wouldn't happen.
Hopefully this Sunday. And why isn't Eki on the roster this weekend?
Boonen was told to ride; George bonked like a mofo. The interviews of George in the showers afterwards were absolutely painful to watch, he was so bummed out. I remember thinking he and Tommeke had it made once Michaelson and Max crashed, but alas, not to be. Once you saw how short the pulls George took were vs. Boom-Boom, it was easy to see it wouldn't happen.
Hopefully this Sunday. And why isn't Eki on the roster this weekend?
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [G-man]
[ In reply to ]
Now, I would put it at 6 or 7 out of ten. Luck is a big factor, for sure, but positioning is usually down to skill and acumen. I think Boonen's strength and acumen will make that happen, mechanicals could produce the deciding factors.
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [JulianInEngland]
[ In reply to ]
"Luck is a big factor, for sure"
Remember what Phil and Paul say, "you don't need good luck - you can't afford to have any BAD luck to win in Roubaix".
So true. The only race where you can crash twice and have 4 punctures and still kiss the podium girls and a big dirty stone trophy.
Remember what Phil and Paul say, "you don't need good luck - you can't afford to have any BAD luck to win in Roubaix".
So true. The only race where you can crash twice and have 4 punctures and still kiss the podium girls and a big dirty stone trophy.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
This is still my favorite - Fast Freddy. Check out his arm warmer and his chain in la Tranche
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [G-man]
[ In reply to ]
I seriously doubt that under those circumstances GH would outsprint TB 2 or 3 times out of 100, unless something extraordinary happened (like a mechanical).
Last year was GH's best chance, but he couldn't attack on the way to Roubaix because Boonen's pace-setting was too hard (remember, they attacked with 80k to go!). GH was even quoted as saying that he originally thought Boonen went too early in the veledrome and that he (GH) thought he could come around him. Instead he was shown a 'clean pair of wheels.'
But you are right, PR does require some luck. But Boonen seems to be like Armstrong, they remove luck from the equation.
Last year was GH's best chance, but he couldn't attack on the way to Roubaix because Boonen's pace-setting was too hard (remember, they attacked with 80k to go!). GH was even quoted as saying that he originally thought Boonen went too early in the veledrome and that he (GH) thought he could come around him. Instead he was shown a 'clean pair of wheels.'
But you are right, PR does require some luck. But Boonen seems to be like Armstrong, they remove luck from the equation.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [EWH]
[ In reply to ]
So true. The only race where you can crash twice and have 4 punctures and still kiss the podium girls and a big dirty stone trophy.
==============================================================================
And that's why it's the most exciting one day classic there is.
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
==============================================================================
And that's why it's the most exciting one day classic there is.
"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [JulianInEngland]
[ In reply to ]
When it's on Easter Sunday I always got upset as my whole family is watching the golf Master's and I'm jumping out of my skin trying to change the channel to watch P-R. Absolutely love that race. I can already hear Sherwin "these are the true hard men of the peloton".
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
Saw a photo of some of them using one of those seatpost-with-suspension thingy.
Then there was that fella who had "numb nuts" after the all the cobbling... ouch!
Then there was that fella who had "numb nuts" after the all the cobbling... ouch!
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
"This year, Discovery have Devolder, Hincapie, Hoste and Van Heeswijk"
But they lost hard man Hammond for the race. That won't be good.
Is Eki on the roster this year?
I want George to pull it off. And I'd like to see him outfox Boonen to do it.
But they lost hard man Hammond for the race. That won't be good.
Is Eki on the roster this year?
I want George to pull it off. And I'd like to see him outfox Boonen to do it.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriBriGuy]
[ In reply to ]
No Max (injury), no Eki (don't know why).
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
In 2003 (if I'm not mistaken) there was a video on the Tour de France website were they showed the bike preparation to handle the cobbles. Since one of the stages passed in a cobbles zone from the Paris-Roubaix, they did the report.
I've tried to search it but couldn't find, maybe you have better luck!
_______________________________
The "Pocket Hercules" - jgrat
Technique sets the upper limit to where your fitness will take you...
I've tried to search it but couldn't find, maybe you have better luck!
_______________________________
The "Pocket Hercules" - jgrat
Technique sets the upper limit to where your fitness will take you...
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
[reply]Ken,
Indeed, that is one of the classic PR shots of all time.
Amazing.
The big question for Sunday - Can Hincapie get himself in a postion to take big Tom Boonen?
Fleck[/reply]
I would love to see GH win. I want to see it happen last Sunday. I wanted to see it last year and for that matter the last few years. It pains me to say it but Hincapie lasts the killer mind set. He always waits to long to attack. Look at last Sunday. That should have been his attack that broke appart the lead group.
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Indeed, that is one of the classic PR shots of all time.
Amazing.
The big question for Sunday - Can Hincapie get himself in a postion to take big Tom Boonen?
Fleck[/reply]
I would love to see GH win. I want to see it happen last Sunday. I wanted to see it last year and for that matter the last few years. It pains me to say it but Hincapie lasts the killer mind set. He always waits to long to attack. Look at last Sunday. That should have been his attack that broke appart the lead group.
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Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [JulianInEngland]
[ In reply to ]
I think this year is a year for someone like a Frederic Guesdon. Good solid rider that no-one has ever heard of before. No idea why I think that, but that is my prediction. A complete unknown to win.
Swimming Workout of the Day:
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Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [swmrdrn]
[ In reply to ]
"That should have been his attack that broke appart the lead group."
That's a disingenuous statement. Hoste's attack was a plan to break the group, but the plan included a splinter group coming back, NOT Boonen bridging up with those two riding away. Hoste didn't work initially, but when the gap grew, they greenlighted him to ride on with Boonen and gut it out for the win. The original plan was for George to blast off the front of the small group once Hoste was caught. Hoste never came back. George tried to break off the front and bridge up, but was never allowed away from the chasing group. That, according to Demol's statements after the race.
Discovery had tactics that didnt' quite work out. That happens all the time. It's a bit harsh to say George lacks the killer instinct.
That's a disingenuous statement. Hoste's attack was a plan to break the group, but the plan included a splinter group coming back, NOT Boonen bridging up with those two riding away. Hoste didn't work initially, but when the gap grew, they greenlighted him to ride on with Boonen and gut it out for the win. The original plan was for George to blast off the front of the small group once Hoste was caught. Hoste never came back. George tried to break off the front and bridge up, but was never allowed away from the chasing group. That, according to Demol's statements after the race.
Discovery had tactics that didnt' quite work out. That happens all the time. It's a bit harsh to say George lacks the killer instinct.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriBriGuy]
[ In reply to ]
[reply]"That should have been his attack that broke appart the lead group."
That's a disingenuous statement. Hoste's attack was a plan to break the group, but the plan included a splinter group coming back, NOT Boonen bridging up with those two riding away. Hoste didn't work initially, but when the gap grew, they greenlighted him to ride on with Boonen and gut it out for the win. The original plan was for George to blast off the front of the small group once Hoste was caught. Hoste never came back. George tried to break off the front and bridge up, but was never allowed away from the chasing group. That, according to Demol's statements after the race.
Discovery had tactics that didnt' quite work out. That happens all the time. It's a bit harsh to say George lacks the killer instinct.[/reply]
Did you hear the GH interview at the finish line? George said that Hoste's attack was a "spur of the moment thing" and that "it was not planned". Hoste grabbed the bull by the horns which is something that George seems to miss. Don't get me wrong I like George a lot and feel that he is a great pro.
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That's a disingenuous statement. Hoste's attack was a plan to break the group, but the plan included a splinter group coming back, NOT Boonen bridging up with those two riding away. Hoste didn't work initially, but when the gap grew, they greenlighted him to ride on with Boonen and gut it out for the win. The original plan was for George to blast off the front of the small group once Hoste was caught. Hoste never came back. George tried to break off the front and bridge up, but was never allowed away from the chasing group. That, according to Demol's statements after the race.
Discovery had tactics that didnt' quite work out. That happens all the time. It's a bit harsh to say George lacks the killer instinct.[/reply]
Did you hear the GH interview at the finish line? George said that Hoste's attack was a "spur of the moment thing" and that "it was not planned". Hoste grabbed the bull by the horns which is something that George seems to miss. Don't get me wrong I like George a lot and feel that he is a great pro.
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Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
It really depends from rider to rider and from team to team. Some get a completely different bike, there is an interview with the president of Time where he says that Boonen will not ride a VXRS on the cobbles because he wants something stiffer, so he rides a VXR with 200-300g extra carbon in the frame than the stock VXR. Of course that's not really that unusual, most bikes in the pro peloton aren't stock anyway and in Paris-Roubaix that percentage goes up even higher. Alu frames painted to look like carbon, that sort of stuff.
For CSC, they ride two different models. Standard R3s, and R3s with 10mm longer chainstays. We're trying out this new setup with a 10mm longer front center (a longer fork with bigger rake) and 10mm longer rear center, as we're considering to put such a model in regular production. Some riders like it, others don't. I think Michaelsen will ride with it, Cancellara probably won't. I'm really interested to see Cancellara go, that guy is such an animal. He is one of the heaviest riders in the race (except for Backstedt) and he has such enormous power. We're running into the problem that the R3 frame is so stiff in the bottom bracket that he has broken chains and even some of the chainrings are too flexible.
As for tires, there are two camps. There are some riders who ride extremely small, fragile tires, some even put track tires on. They say it is all about feel, and if you ride properly you won't flat. The race has been won several times by riders on track tires. Then there are those who ride with 24mm and 27mm tires. Another change is the gears, there are no climbs in this race so some opt for a 50t small ring (and a 54 or 55t big ring) so you can double-shift throughout the entire range and have very close gear spacing.
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [gerard]
[ In reply to ]
We're running into the problem that the R3 frame is so stiff in the bottom bracket that he has broken chains and even some of the chainrings are too flexible.
Man, I hope that doesn't happen in Arenberg, Mons-en-Pévèle or Carrefour de l'Arbre or his race go bye-bye.
I like Cance, and used to really enjoy him and Flecha working together in the classics. Would've been neat to see Flecha sign for CSC and then have those two and Stuey together for Flanders/Roubaix (theoretically given Stuey's injury).
Man, I hope that doesn't happen in Arenberg, Mons-en-Pévèle or Carrefour de l'Arbre or his race go bye-bye.
I like Cance, and used to really enjoy him and Flecha working together in the classics. Would've been neat to see Flecha sign for CSC and then have those two and Stuey together for Flanders/Roubaix (theoretically given Stuey's injury).
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [EWH]
[ In reply to ]
Surely just a matter of swapping out for campy instead?
One of the things I like about my Merckx is that the team has apparently ridden them in PR with few mods, just thicker bar tape etc. Not sure where I read this though.
Just think, if you were a pro who was only racing for the money, how could you convince yourself to even start a race like PR? It's madness like this, and times like when the boys helped Basso grovel up the Stelvio, that makes me think these guys would ride for free if they had to.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [swmrdrn]
[ In reply to ]
swmrdrn....I agree with you (and i've actually met GH and am of course hoping he wins). His instict/instructions were to let Hoste try and break up the race. Boonen's instict was to go with Hoste (Hoste!) and he ended up winning. And why if Boonen bridged did George not take off with him? shouldn't he have been monitoring any attacks on his teammate, especially if it's Boonen?
There have been many comments about GH's will to win, his 'killer instict,' by LA and even George himself. And this quote from cyclingnews says it all:
The strategy for next Sunday? Hincapie's answer is clear and simple: "The same as in RVV: try to create a numerical majority with Discovery Channel and enter the velodrome without Tom Boonen."
There have been many comments about GH's will to win, his 'killer instict,' by LA and even George himself. And this quote from cyclingnews says it all:
The strategy for next Sunday? Hincapie's answer is clear and simple: "The same as in RVV: try to create a numerical majority with Discovery Channel and enter the velodrome without Tom Boonen."
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [eganski]
[ In reply to ]
George played the smart tactical game, and lost. Hoste accelerated to try to thin the group. When Boonen went with him, it should have doomed their break. George (and Boonen's teammates) were supposed to sit back and have everyone else tow them back up to the break so they could duke it out for the win. If George had gone with Boonen to get on Hoste's wheel, they really would have been doomed. Either he would have towed the whole pack up, or Boonen would have sat on their wheels the rest of the way. George did the right thing, and he lost because the other teams didn't do what they were supposed to.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [efernand]
[ In reply to ]
Boonen played the smart tactical game, and won. To think that George would just let Boonen go and hope that other teams would 'do what they were supposed to do' is ridiculous. Did you ever see Armstrong allow Basso or Ullrich to attack like that (other than when the TdF was out of reach)?
And to think that the pack would've brought them back if George went with them, when they didn't bring them back when it was just Boonen/Hoste (and just 2 men working, not 3) is also assuming too much.
If GH is relying on 'supposed to' then he will have a tough time this weekend.
And to think that the pack would've brought them back if George went with them, when they didn't bring them back when it was just Boonen/Hoste (and just 2 men working, not 3) is also assuming too much.
If GH is relying on 'supposed to' then he will have a tough time this weekend.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [eganski]
[ In reply to ]
Boonen played the smart tactical game, and won. To think that George would just let Boonen go and hope that other teams would 'do what they were supposed to do' is ridiculous. Did you ever see Armstrong allow Basso or Ullrich to attack like that (other than when the TdF was out of reach)?
If Boonen had gone alone, then George would have had to follow, but he couldn't/shouldn't chase down his teammates break. Don't you remember Armstrong and Postal letting the large breakaway get 20 minutes since it wasn't their responsibility to chase since he didn't have the yellow jersey? George and Boonen's teammates are supposed to let the other teams do the work.
And to think that the pack would've brought them back if George went with them, when they didn't bring them back when it was just Boonen/Hoste (and just 2 men working, not 3) is also assuming too much.
It still would have only been 2 men working. There is no way that Boonen would do any work in a break with 2 disco riders.
If GH is relying on 'supposed to' then he will have a tough time this weekend.
Boonen and Hoste's move should have been inconsequential, but the other teams dropped the ball by letting them get away. Both of them said that they were surprised that they got away. George and disco made a smart decision. He should have been towed back to the front by a small group, and then been fresh (much fresher than Boonen) for the finale, and had Hoste there to help.
If Boonen had gone alone, then George would have had to follow, but he couldn't/shouldn't chase down his teammates break. Don't you remember Armstrong and Postal letting the large breakaway get 20 minutes since it wasn't their responsibility to chase since he didn't have the yellow jersey? George and Boonen's teammates are supposed to let the other teams do the work.
And to think that the pack would've brought them back if George went with them, when they didn't bring them back when it was just Boonen/Hoste (and just 2 men working, not 3) is also assuming too much.
It still would have only been 2 men working. There is no way that Boonen would do any work in a break with 2 disco riders.
If GH is relying on 'supposed to' then he will have a tough time this weekend.
Boonen and Hoste's move should have been inconsequential, but the other teams dropped the ball by letting them get away. Both of them said that they were surprised that they got away. George and disco made a smart decision. He should have been towed back to the front by a small group, and then been fresh (much fresher than Boonen) for the finale, and had Hoste there to help.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
George will need to have a gap on Boonen before the velodrome if he wants to win.
Dave in VA
Dave in VA
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [efernand]
[ In reply to ]
I think this argument stems from GH's lack of 'killer instinct.' I agree that once Boonen/Hoste got away, he was stuck (unless he wanted the Terrel Owens 'worst teammate' award).
I don't agree that had Booned gone alone, GH would've had to follow. He could've relied on his team (with Hoste sitting up and waiting at that point) to bring Boonen back. Boonen is strong, but an attack that far out wouldn't have worked.
No, it was George's move to let Boonen go that surprised me. And i'm talking that few seconds between when Boonen goes and George's DS gives him instructions to let it happen. Either he felt that 'other teams would bring him back' or he thought the break wouldn't possibly last. In terms of tactics-right or wrong, he missed out on the selection so he was wrong.
I think we both agree that the way the tactics played out after that was really the only way they could've (especially with no teams coming to the front to bring back TB/LH and QS and Disco in supportive roles at that point)...but it's that initial 'reaction' or lack thereof by GH that i'm talking about.
I think that if he wants to get to the veledrom without TB this weekend, he'll definitely have to think 'outside the box.' If he doesn't attack or get away, I don't see any way that QuickStep allows that to happen.
Of course, this could all be moot, it's supposed to rain all day today and tomorrow! So all hell could break lose!
It's too bad LA never went for a race like this. Oh well.
I don't agree that had Booned gone alone, GH would've had to follow. He could've relied on his team (with Hoste sitting up and waiting at that point) to bring Boonen back. Boonen is strong, but an attack that far out wouldn't have worked.
No, it was George's move to let Boonen go that surprised me. And i'm talking that few seconds between when Boonen goes and George's DS gives him instructions to let it happen. Either he felt that 'other teams would bring him back' or he thought the break wouldn't possibly last. In terms of tactics-right or wrong, he missed out on the selection so he was wrong.
I think we both agree that the way the tactics played out after that was really the only way they could've (especially with no teams coming to the front to bring back TB/LH and QS and Disco in supportive roles at that point)...but it's that initial 'reaction' or lack thereof by GH that i'm talking about.
I think that if he wants to get to the veledrom without TB this weekend, he'll definitely have to think 'outside the box.' If he doesn't attack or get away, I don't see any way that QuickStep allows that to happen.
Of course, this could all be moot, it's supposed to rain all day today and tomorrow! So all hell could break lose!
It's too bad LA never went for a race like this. Oh well.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
This is definitely my favourite race of the spring classics, one day bike races and perhaps overall race. It's just amazing considering how fast the riders fly over the cobbles (usually around 40kph). As if that isn't enough, then the winner has to use his skinny cycling arms to lift up the trophy ;-)!
I know I'm evil, but I always hope for rain sometime in the week leading up to the race. Makes for a much more dramatic race, and you just know those riders that focus on the spring classics love it too!
Chris
--
"I do not hurt on the bike, I punish."
I know I'm evil, but I always hope for rain sometime in the week leading up to the race. Makes for a much more dramatic race, and you just know those riders that focus on the spring classics love it too!
Chris
--
"I do not hurt on the bike, I punish."
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [efernand]
[ In reply to ]
[reply]If Boonen had gone alone, then George would have had to follow, but he couldn't/shouldn't chase down his teammates break. Don't you remember Armstrong and Postal letting the large breakaway get 20 minutes since it wasn't their responsibility to chase since he didn't have the yellow jersey? [/reply]
In the big Tours there is always the next day to make up time. In the classics its all over at the end of the day. Boonen was the man to beat last Sunday and George HAD to follow him up the road... unless of course George wasn't the Disco team leader?
Ron
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In the big Tours there is always the next day to make up time. In the classics its all over at the end of the day. Boonen was the man to beat last Sunday and George HAD to follow him up the road... unless of course George wasn't the Disco team leader?
Ron
----------
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Hincapie, Cancellara and Boonen get away from the rest (not taking into account punctures) !
Boonen is too fast on the Velodrome for the sprint, and they can't loose him before that.
Boonen is too fast on the Velodrome for the sprint, and they can't loose him before that.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [swmrdrn]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
In the big Tours there is always the next day to make up time. In the classics its all over at the end of the day. Boonen was the man to beat last Sunday and George HAD to follow him up the road... unless of course George wasn't the Disco team leader?I still think that if George had followed Boonen immediately, he would have been screwed also. Boonen would have sat on and the pack might have been more inclined to chase them down.
I think Hoste said that he sat up initially, but was told to go ahead when the gap stuck. George may have had to follow Boonen, but he also couldn't chase down a teammate. He got screwed because of the way it played out, with the other teams 'giving up', and letting Boonen get away.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [EWH]
[ In reply to ]
No worries, that won't happen I think. With the parts, everything is up to the level he needs. He is really psyched for this weekend, it will be interesting to see what he can do. I always liked him, but I never realized he was so powerful. Flecha would have been a nice addition, it would have been quite a team with a healthy o'Grady, Flecha, Cancellara, Michaelsen and Kroon.
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [eganski]
[ In reply to ]
If Hincapie had made the break with Hoste and Boonen, then Quick Step itself would have brought back the break. No way would Boonen have done any work in that breakaway, and no way would Hoste and Hincapie drag Boonen to the finish. They'd have worked to drop him (and I'll bet that Hoste and Hincapie could have done it), and QS wouldn't allow that to happen.
----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [gerard]
[ In reply to ]
That would've been an ueber-studly northern classics team on par with Quick-Step and Disco. Good fantasy team for Cyclingnews' contest.
I'll be watching Quadzilla to make sure he doesn't break his chain! Wishing your guys "no bad luck" this weekend.
Ted
I'll be watching Quadzilla to make sure he doesn't break his chain! Wishing your guys "no bad luck" this weekend.
Ted
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question
[ In reply to ]
George has the form he needs: Third at Flanders, Fifth at Gent-Wevelgem. He's a different rider now that he's won a Tour stage - more confident. I think this is his weekend. I really, really hope so.
It would be the greatest story at P-R since Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle won in 1992 after 10 years of trying...and then he went on to repeat in 1993.
Bring it, Big George!
It would be the greatest story at P-R since Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle won in 1992 after 10 years of trying...and then he went on to repeat in 1993.
Bring it, Big George!
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Hurricane Bob]
[ In reply to ]
Forget it, if Tornado Tom is OK (no crashes, no flats at bad moments), he will win. PR is a race where the strongest has the biggest chance to win, because the team element is not so important. It is more an honest individual race and the strongest individual at this moment is by far TB.
Btw, If Hincapie would have chased Hoste and Boonen at Flanders, Bettini would have won most probably.
Hincapie deserves to win, but so do Dekker, Zabel, Hoste, Van Peteghem, Ballan, Cancellara, Flecha, Hushovd, Wesemann, Guesdon, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fuck a duck and try to fly
Btw, If Hincapie would have chased Hoste and Boonen at Flanders, Bettini would have won most probably.
Hincapie deserves to win, but so do Dekker, Zabel, Hoste, Van Peteghem, Ballan, Cancellara, Flecha, Hushovd, Wesemann, Guesdon, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fuck a duck and try to fly
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Kanipupski]
[ In reply to ]
I can dream, can't I? I have to say, nice to see the Maillot Arc En Ciel at the head of affairs when it matters this week.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Kanipupski]
[ In reply to ]
I'd like to see Wesemann or O'Grady win it. Hard men.
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Hurricane Bob]
[ In reply to ]
Sure you can dream, the race still has to be raced, right ?
Btw, did you notice they have almost the same body construction (is this english?) ?
GH : 6'33" for 175 lbs
TB : 6'30 for 176 lbs
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fuck a duck and try to fly
Btw, did you notice they have almost the same body construction (is this english?) ?
GH : 6'33" for 175 lbs
TB : 6'30 for 176 lbs
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fuck a duck and try to fly
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [House]
[ In reply to ]
The whole SPA thing looks more like a marketing stunt from Trek without real use in P-R, at least not by the podium finisher by Hincapie. Look at the bike Hincapie rode in last years P-R, it had no SPA, but was just a normal Trek and it wasn't a spare bike because it has his race number plate on the frame. There's no number plates on the spare bikes.
Hincapie's standard Trek race bike in P-R 2005
After the race Hincpapie's normal Trek was swapped with the "P-R edition" with SPA, so he could walk with this bike to the podium and journalist could take pictures of this special "Paris-Roubaix" bike as if Hincapie actaully rode it in the race and write an article about Trek. The bike Hincapie swapped to for the walk to the podium ha SPA and was even covered with mud and all to make it look authentic, and now with two bidons instead of just one as shown in the sprint above and also without his race number plate which was on the race bike which was just a normal Trek without SPA.
Hincapie's "podium bike" with SPA. Photo taken at the podium after P-R 2005.
Last edited by:
Twitchslow: Apr 7, 06 15:51
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [Twitchslow]
[ In reply to ]
Whoops...
Did you happen to notice that the picture you are citing as "evidence" actually does appear to have the SPA shock on it?
It's partially obscured by the brake caliper.
The SPA bikes have a wishbone stay - standard frames don't.
Here's an SPA/standard bike right next to each other: which one looks more like Hincapie's bike to you?
.
Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
Did you happen to notice that the picture you are citing as "evidence" actually does appear to have the SPA shock on it?
It's partially obscured by the brake caliper.
The SPA bikes have a wishbone stay - standard frames don't.
Here's an SPA/standard bike right next to each other: which one looks more like Hincapie's bike to you?
.
Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [G-man]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [EWH]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [fredly]
[ In reply to ]
Actually theres no black part at the wishbone in the pic.
And Wishbone seatstays is not something Trek has just made for the P-R bike, Trek has made several standard bikes with wishbone, for example Trek 5500, 5200, 5000 etc. It would probably have been too expensive anyway to make wishbone seastays just for P-R. In fact the SPA bike is just a standard production Trek 5000 bike with some of the wishbone cut out: http://www.cyclingnews.com/...atures/hincapie_bike
The bike with the black SPA Hincapie took to the podium is not the bike he rode in P-R.
But actually It seems Hincapie did ride with SPA, but definately not the black one as he took to the podium.
Here's some pics of the bike Hincapie raced in P-R:
http://www.tdwsport.com/...1734.jpg&thumb=0
http://www.tdwsport.com/...1747.jpg&thumb=0
Last edited by:
Twitchslow: Apr 8, 06 4:25
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [TriMike]
[ In reply to ]
Regarding bike set up, P-R sets the bar for one off innovations. In 1992 & 1993 Gilbert Duclos-Lassalle won with full front fork suspension, rock-shox style. I'm guessing it was Gan team mate Greg Lemond, who was likewise equipped, who came up with the idea.
The victory apparently wasn't enough for it to catch on however.
I can't remember if Duclos-Lassalle was able to switch bikes or rode the "funny" bike onto the velodrome for the win.
The victory apparently wasn't enough for it to catch on however.
I can't remember if Duclos-Lassalle was able to switch bikes or rode the "funny" bike onto the velodrome for the win.
Re: Paris - Roubaix Question [jaylew]
[ In reply to ]
Nah, I thought about it, and never got the time last week to actually read through all the rules and do it. Hell, I still need to do my taxes!
"Actually theres no black part at the wishbone in the pic.
And Wishbone seatstays is not something Trek has just made for the P-R bike, Trek has made several standard bikes with wishbone, for example Trek 5500, 5200, 5000 etc. It would probably have been too expensive anyway to make wishbone seastays just for P-R. In fact the SPA bike is just a standard production Trek 5000 bike with some of the wishbone cut out: http://www.cyclingnews.com/...atures/hincapie_bike
The bike with the black SPA Hincapie took to the podium is not the bike he rode in P-R.
But actually It seems Hincapie did ride with SPA, but definately not the black one as he took to the podium.
Here's some pics of the bike Hincapie raced in P-R: "
- Oh, c'mon...
You can say it - "Whoops... I was wrong..." :0)
.
Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
And Wishbone seatstays is not something Trek has just made for the P-R bike, Trek has made several standard bikes with wishbone, for example Trek 5500, 5200, 5000 etc. It would probably have been too expensive anyway to make wishbone seastays just for P-R. In fact the SPA bike is just a standard production Trek 5000 bike with some of the wishbone cut out: http://www.cyclingnews.com/...atures/hincapie_bike
The bike with the black SPA Hincapie took to the podium is not the bike he rode in P-R.
But actually It seems Hincapie did ride with SPA, but definately not the black one as he took to the podium.
Here's some pics of the bike Hincapie raced in P-R: "
- Oh, c'mon...
You can say it - "Whoops... I was wrong..." :0)
.
Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/