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P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com)
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I know Nick over at TriRig.com is working hard on his Omega brake. I love to see independent people working to change the industry.

I was browsing through his photos and saw the custom internal cable routing he did on the p3.


Do you think drilling on the top tube (aprox a few centimeters behind the hole for the steer tube) will hurt the frame? Is this custom job just for show?








Last edited by: ilove2tri: Feb 14, 12 8:44
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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I think he has said he doesn't recommend doing this and doesn't want to share the details. I assume because of liability concerns. It looks great though and I was very curious when I saw it.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TUEFELHUNDEN] [ In reply to ]
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while not quite as good as that solution, with just smart cable routing and zip ties you can keep the cables out of direct wind (at low yaw anyway)





Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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I talked with Nick about this yesterday. He said he'd received a lot of feedback regarding this and that he'd actually contacted Cervelo about it. There is a *chance* he'll give more details about the process soon. It does void the warranty, obviously.
Last edited by: lmicah3: Feb 14, 12 10:36
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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I am working on this right now on my SLC but like Nick I will not share how it was done. Just need some parts to show up and once they are here and I post some pics.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
while not quite as good as that solution, with just smart cable routing and zip ties you can keep the cables out of direct wind (at low yaw anyway)


Jack, do you have a picture from the side of the set up?

Thanks - Brent

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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I think this is a great idea if you don't value having front teeth or scars on your face.

Drilling holes in anything causes stress concentration. This area would be one of the areas on a bike that would be subjected to high compression loads. You might be ok and you might not but why would you risk it.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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shifter housings look pretty cool, but that rear brake housing looks like it enters the frame stop at an awful sharp angle... at least on my P2 the rear modulation/feel is bad enough already as it routs through the base bar; I doubt the lever would even return at all if I added that kink to the cable.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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not handy, but basically shifter cables go up over the base bar, along stem, the straight down into the frame. zip tie keeps them pulled in.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Sweet, so they aren't too far above the stem then? And the brake just goes normally I assume...

I'll play around and figure it out. Definitely needs to be better than I have them set up right now.

Brent

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [lmicah3] [ In reply to ]
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lmicah3 wrote:
I talked with Nick about this yesterday. He said he'd received a lot of feedback regarding this and that he'd actually contacted Cervelo about it. There is a *chance* he'll give more details about the process soon. It does void the warranty, obviously.


I'm not 100% sure the above warranty statement is correct. I have seen this build too, and called about it as well. I was interested in Di2 on a P3 and was concerned about the routing scheme because it was not in the original design.

A GENTLEMAN AT CERVELO, told me that they had heard of it being done, and that it would require drilling some small holes, but that if done by a Cervelo dealer/approved warranty center/repair shop/whatever you want to call it, that the warranty would stay in tact.

They went on to say that the main concern was not the holes in the frame themselves, so much as it might be the futility of the holes. Reason they gave was that when the carbon lay-up is kicking off in the molding process/cooking process, the resin needs to and does flow. In may be that it flows "inconveniently" and "seals up" or otherwise obstructs the potential pathways of the cables that need to be routed. He said it would vary from frame to frame, and the only way to know was to drill baby drill and find out. He was specifically concerned about the chainstays.

Anyway, I love the P3, hate the look of the P4 and had (at the time) basically decided to go P3 with a Di2 build (because I had that group already, but no bike). When I went to visit my local Cervelo dealers, I did not get the sense of confidence that I would need to have in order to trust them to go drilling holes in my dream bike. The only builds I saw that I would trust were the one shown here, and another (I believe) in either CA or AZ. I live in Florida, so scratch that idea.

So, here I am, no (new) bike yet, race season upon me, waiting for my shot at a P5 frameset that will take the Di2 without batting an eye.



"What do you mean your running shoes don't match your bike?"
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah until I get a center pull brake that option is out. But thanks for the advice!

Brent

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [OCD] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting, thanks for the heads up on that. The guys at my local shop said there is no way they'd do this for me, granted they are not a Cervelo dealer.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [OCD] [ In reply to ]
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I know for sure that on the SLC-SL that area behind the headtube is really thick.

Pretty sure you can just drill 2 holes like that and glue this in the the bb area right before the cable comes out:

http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/...ction&key=CS0203

Alternatively it would be even easier if there was a double cable stop like that with a hole in the middle, could just replace the cable stop under the BB with it ...

maybe take a dremel/drill to the center of this one:

http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/...ction&key=CS1302

I've always been too much of a wuss to try this sort of thing :) I also don't know how thick it is behind the headtube on a p3 ... if I was cervelo I wouldn't warranty a frame that was drilled there.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [daryl1] [ In reply to ]
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daryl1 wrote:
I know for sure that on the SLC-SL that area behind the headtube is really thick.

Pretty sure you can just drill 2 holes like that and glue this in the the bb area right before the cable comes out:

http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/...ction&key=CS0203

Alternatively it would be even easier if there was a double cable stop like that with a hole in the middle, could just replace the cable stop under the BB with it ...

maybe take a dremel/drill to the center of this one:

http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/...ction&key=CS1302

I've always been too much of a wuss to try this sort of thing :) I also don't know how thick it is behind the headtube on a p3 ... if I was cervelo I wouldn't warranty a frame that was drilled there.


X2



"What do you mean your running shoes don't match your bike?"
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [OCD] [ In reply to ]
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it s a very simple operation actually. A dremel or drill and taking your time is all it takes. I have done it on many frames and yes, it will void 100% your warranty with ANY company. would it be a issue, most likely, nop...it wont be.

I m myself riding a internally routed orbea ora bike. Took about 30minutes to do. Nothing very special about the way to do it but take your time and make the hole as small as possible. And yes, you never know what kind of interference you will meet when inside the frame!!!


.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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Do you think with this P3 mod, for the shift cables, are the housings running all the way down the downtube?

Because on a standard P3 they don't.

If the housings don't run all the way down the downtube here with this mod, where do you think he put in his cable stops?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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Can't find anything at the moment, but I swear I've seen similar modding done on older S2s. Cervelo eventually changed the cable routing on that bike, but it did use the same downtube routing as seen on the P3 to begin with.

If you expand your search to include other older Cervelo models it may help trying to find out how safe/viable that is.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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This is how Cervelo does it. I think if anyone is thinking of doing it you need to run it the same way as shown. I think this will allow for better shifting in the end.


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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
it s a very simple operation actually. A dremel or drill and taking your time is all it takes. I have done it on many frames and yes, it will void 100% your warranty with ANY company. would it be a issue, most likely, nop...it wont be.


!!!NOT TO BUST BALLS, but......

I did just go back and read the email response DIRECTLY from Cervelo customer support and it specifically addresses the questions "can it be done" YES; "will it involve drilling the frame" YES; "will warranty remain in tact" YES, IF DONE BY AUTHORIZED DEALER.

I press this issue because I am dying to see it done more so I can sign up to. My engine will never live up to the P5 (or any other superbike), but I do merit a P3, and I have the Di2 group and I want it internally routed and according to Cervelo it can be done, has been done, and would be protected under warranty if done by an authorized dealer.

Because Cervelo is AWESOME, and they TOTALLY ADDRESSED my concerns, I really want to see this done by a true craftsman that also happens to deal Cervelo.... In the southeast.

I will tell you that I could post the note from their customer service guy, but his note kindly said "please don't post to any Internet forums (wonder which one he meant) as each response to their customers was designed to be unique to that inquiry. Out of respect, I obviously won't do it, but the spirit of what was described in the back and forth is described above accurately.

I hope someone can do it. There are other threads about it, that's how I saw the builds. They were gorgeous- just nowhere near home.



"What do you mean your running shoes don't match your bike?"
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I'm familiar with how Cervelo does it. I was more curious how this specific mod was done.

Anyone know?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Nick at TriRig
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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I seem to remember on Slowtwitch a totally tricked-out P2 someone had done with lots of internal cable routing. Although it had cantilever brakes, it was a very sweet ride. I've since tried to find it, but haven't had any luck. That would be a very aero-worthy ride!
Anyone else remember this jewell?
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Nick has said that he's checked with Cervelo and they are ok with him showing a how-to (with the obvious warnings about at your own risk, warrentee gone etc) and he'll put a video on the Tririg Facebook page at some time.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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the mod you're talking about is illustrated on the TriRig site. A video of the mod is or will be posted here.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
while not quite as good as that solution, with just smart cable routing and zip ties you can keep the cables out of direct wind (at low yaw anyway)

Jack, that reduces the drag of the cables but increases the drag of the frame. In my opinion you'd be better of with the cables further away from the frame if they can't be completely hidden or shielded.

Also best to have them as close to horizontal as possible even if more cable is exposed.

That is a nice front brake set up :-)

Cheers

Steve
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Steve_Davidson] [ In reply to ]
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Steve_Davidson wrote:
Jack, that reduces the drag of the cables but increases the drag of the frame. In my opinion you'd be better of with the cables further away from the frame if they can't be completely hidden or shielded.

Also best to have them as close to horizontal as possible even if more cable is exposed.

Is this a "Ive seen this in the wind tunnel/field test" comment or "I think" comment?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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The video is up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RORISzYGxso

Pretty simple & inexpensive. Nice work, Nick!


Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Reese Bobby Talladega Nights
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [The_Mickstar] [ In reply to ]
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Makes me want to pick up a P2 or P3 as a project bike!

Such a simple yet significant mod.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I run Nokon cables with full liners anyway, so I wouldn't even need to worry about that extra step.


Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Reese Bobby Talladega Nights
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [The_Mickstar] [ In reply to ]
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Good video. And a simple mod, yes.

But I wonder if having the cable rub on the inside of the frame (even with a liner) is very good solution long term ?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Carbon is a different animal (obviously), but, just as a data point...

I've been running Nokons with full liners on my Cervelo Dual (aluminum) since 2007. There is a spot just as the front derailleur cable exits the bottom bracket cable guide and turns up toward the front derailleur that rubs the frame. I noticed it when I removed the original (standard) cables to put the Nokons on. The original cables had only been installed for a few months, and the bare cable had cut through the paint. However, I had the original Nokon liner on there for ~4 years, and not only did the liner not split at this point, but the frame showed no further damage. So, the liner definitely worked in that application.


Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Reese Bobby Talladega Nights
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [The_Mickstar] [ In reply to ]
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You you can run I link and just run their liner an extra 12"-18" into the frame. The mini ilinks are smaller overall diameter so I will be using some smaller cables stops for my modifications which means the holes I drill be be about 2/3rd the size of the ones Nick drilled I believe. Just waiting on my parts to arrive.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
Steve_Davidson wrote:
Jack, that reduces the drag of the cables but increases the drag of the frame. In my opinion you'd be better of with the cables further away from the frame if they can't be completely hidden or shielded.

Also best to have them as close to horizontal as possible even if more cable is exposed.
The cable drag coefficient will reduce by about 1/3 if it is touching the frame but needs to be at least 1.5 diameters away from the frame to preserve the aerodynamic performance of the down tube.

The down tube drag will increase by a larger amount than the reduction in drag of the cable.

Can be calculated if you have the relevant sections but it's quite difficult. Would be good to see the effect with smoke in a tunnel.

Cheers

Steve


Is this a "Ive seen this in the wind tunnel/field test" comment or "I think" comment?
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Steve_Davidson] [ In reply to ]
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Steve_Davidson wrote:
The cable drag coefficient will reduce by about 1/3 if it is touching the frame but needs to be at least 1.5 diameters away from the frame to preserve the aerodynamic performance of the down tube.

The down tube drag will increase by a larger amount than the reduction in drag of the cable.

Can be calculated if you have the relevant sections but it's quite difficult. Would be good to see the effect with smoke in a tunnel.

This would be complicated by the fact that this is all happening behind the head tube I would think, at least at low yaw.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Nick! I can't wait for the Omega brakes to come out!

You said it wasn't Cervelo approved but I can say that its Slowtwitch approved!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
You you can run I link and just run their liner an extra 12"-18" into the frame. The mini ilinks are smaller overall diameter so I will be using some smaller cables stops for my modifications which means the holes I drill be be about 2/3rd the size of the ones Nick drilled I believe. Just waiting on my parts to arrive.


The smaller holes in the frame is an obvious advantage. I'd be interested to know where you found smaller ferrules/cable stops to use. Care to share?


Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Reese Bobby Talladega Nights
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [The_Mickstar] [ In reply to ]
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I will share once I have them. I am not sure they will work and I am not sure if I will have to modify them yet. I am also going to run a more rigid solution past the TT/DT section to never have a rubbing issue.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX - You will be doing this mod to your planet-x stealth frame correct? Please post details and photos when complete! I've got the same frameset and would love to do the same mod on mine.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [hayai_240] [ In reply to ]
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Will not be doing this to the Stealth frame but will be doing this on my SLC. Stealth frame would be a bad idea.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [The_Mickstar] [ In reply to ]
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I think something like this would do the trick

http://compare.ebay.com/...p;_lwgsi=y&cbt=y
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [GREG_n_SD] [ In reply to ]
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Those look like what Nick used. I'm curious about smaller ones that would still work with the smaller OD of the I-Link cables.


Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Reese Bobby Talladega Nights
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [The_Mickstar] [ In reply to ]
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For the Mini I-links I will be modifying something which I think will allow for a smaller cleaner look. So basically modifying the modification that Nick did. Is there any other way to go. I have another option that I am thinking but I need to see how much meat there is in this location. If there is enough meat then I might do a counter sunk hole. So drill a 2mm hole all the way through for each cable then do a 3.5mm - 4mm (can not remember the exact diameter of the end connection on the Mini's) countersunk hole to have the end cap just sit in a bit. It would be very trick looking but I am not sure if it can be done. Worst case would be to drill out the holes bigger to like what Nick has done in the end.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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What about a more rigid insert? Something like a jagwire brake noodle? I know it is for brakes, but it might be better (with a couple of mods-open the angle up and remove the nipple on the bottom) than just cable liner.





Suffer Well.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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Already looked at that as that was my first thought but I have something close but a little different in mind. Also not looking for 1/2" tall ferrule sticking out the top tube. I have a few of these at home and have already modified them and the overall look was not that great. It would work but I want something better looking for my build. It would allow for a smaller hole and all you would have to do is remove the little barb at the outlet.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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The small hole and rigid routing are the two big benefits of something like this. I'm not sure why Cervelo does not move to the ICS on the P2/P3 like they did on the S2.

Suffer Well.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe over time they will depending on what direction they go in. Would be a nice selling feature I feel. Yes I think a rigid type of guide would be nice but there are other options out there the might allow for a better run. I want as small of a connection above the TT as possible.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Can't wait to see your SLC-SL, I used your advice on the front center pull and it worked like a charm.

I still have an SLC-SL and love it and to get the cables out of the wind would be the icing on the cake.

GOOD LUCK!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
The small hole and rigid routing are the two big benefits of something like this. I'm not sure why Cervelo does not move to the ICS on the P2/P3 like they did on the S2.

funding a pro bike team, funding the s5, funding the p4, funding the p5

all took precedence over redoing the p3 and p2 assembly lines for 5g of drag or so I presume =)



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
jmh wrote:
The small hole and rigid routing are the two big benefits of something like this. I'm not sure why Cervelo does not move to the ICS on the P2/P3 like they did on the S2.


funding a pro bike team, funding the s5, funding the p4, funding the p5

all took precedence over redoing the p3 and p2 assembly lines for 5g of drag or so I presume =)

Jack - are you saying this mod might only be worth 5g of drag or so?

_______________________________________________
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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Hmmm......this might be more effective with a few mods than the 2 loose jagwire ferrules that TriRig used.
The holes that are req'd. to be drilled would be slightly smaller too.
The cable end will stick up from the top tube but the shifter cable housings can plug right into it, less noticeable.
One problem is to figure out the spacing of the two holes for this..............without the top tube cracking later between the two new holes (that would not be good).

Maybe I'll try to do this mod on a round carbon spacer that I have lying around before pulling the trigger on my P2.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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Or you could use these. I think it would give you a bit better angle going into the down tube.


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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [antlue] [ In reply to ]
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Would it be worth taking the toptube down to bare carbon and epoxying on a metal plate shaped to sit flush? Then drilling through that?
Would seem to help in reducing any stress concentration round the holes....
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [carlosferreiro] [ In reply to ]
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I was thinking of doing it this way too .. my concern is not particularly the stress in the area but the fact that the cable is going to move around a bit while steering. Unless the cable stop is bonded in or there is some rubber grommet, there may be some abrasion over time, which would lead to delamination.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [carlosferreiro] [ In reply to ]
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That would be a good way to do it.

Stress at the edge of the hole is about 3 x what it would be normally therefore anything that could be done to reduce stress would be good.

Cheers

Steve
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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bonesbrigade wrote:
Jack - are you saying this mod might only be worth 5g of drag or so?

wild ass guess

you could probably do a little math and get a better guess

but I bet its around there



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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Since my back is so bad right now and I can not swim, ride or run I thought the next best thing was to grab a beer, drill and get to work in the garage. The last pic is just a dry run of the cabling to see how it worked and it is amazingly smooth. I was actually surprised when I ran the cable that it just popped out the hole near the BB on the first try. That alone was worth another beer.





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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Sweet!

BMANX which part did you use for this. I'm gonna jump in and attempt it myself.

Thanks!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Steve_Davidson] [ In reply to ]
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Steve_Davidson wrote:
Stress at the edge of the hole is about 3 x what it would be normally therefore anything that could be done to reduce stress would be good.

In an elastic material this is true. For this type of composite it is more like 1.5 or so. Variable depending on the layup, so better to be conservative.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Care to give any insight of your process of doing this? Looks great!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Cyronman] [ In reply to ]
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You need two of these and a drill/bits. http://www.google.com/...&ved=0CC0Q8gIwAg

When I did mine, drilling the first hole with a small bit took a couple minutes, to make sure it was level and didn't split the carbon. After that, when moving to larger bits, the drill grabs on pretty easily, so go to the next bit size up, one by one until the cable stop slides in. I put some vinyl sticker strips that matches my bike over the cut holes, then put smaller holes in the vinyl and pushed the stops through. Once you measure correctly, so the holes don't overlap, etc., it is easy. Having a bike shop run the cables and some other stuff, so we'll see today if they are able to get them through. Definitely get some odd looks from mechanics though.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [kimosobbi] [ In reply to ]
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Cool. Definitely update on how shifting works, i was thinking of using one of the inserts with the flexible nokon looking cables so that there wasn't such a tight bend in the cable at the insert. Someone posted a link to them in here further up.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [kimosobbi] [ In reply to ]
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So it occured to me yesterday as I was riding my 2009 S2 that I could use those little stops on my P2 and avoid the ICS stops that were the original design for my S2. In essence, update my S2 to the cable routing desing of the newer S2's.

Cabling into the ICS is a massive PIA.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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I had some issues trying to get my rear brake cable to run along the same route as the shifter cables, like how it is pictured in the Tririg shots. Brake is sticking unless the brake cable is ran under stem and in front of head tube. Ideally it would run to the right of the stem and into the bar. Doesn't seem like there is any large difference between the two, but mechanic said that was causing the brake to stick. Same problem occurred before I modified it, where the only way to get the brake lever to release is by manually popping the rear brake open. Any thoughts? I am convinced it is the cable housing, and mechanic didn't replace it I don't think.

The second issue, purely aesthetic, is the height of the shifter cables. Any ideas on cutting them shorter to run tighter above the stem, or is the housing just too stiff to where it would cause shifting issues? Other than that, everything is smooth.




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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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Hey guys,

We recently installed a Ultegra di2 TT group-set (using Dura Ace shift/brake levers) to a std P3 frameset (this one was 650c)

and i took some photos that may help people with doing their own...

http://www.corrycycles.com.au/...ustom-di2-conversion

Total cost of bike to the customer was $5000 AUD

Cheers
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [kimosobbi] [ In reply to ]
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kimosobbi wrote:
The second issue, purely aesthetic, is the height of the shifter cables. Any ideas on cutting them shorter to run tighter above the stem, or is the housing just too stiff to where it would cause shifting issues? Other than that, everything is smooth.

I would probably chop off about 1/3 of that cable running from the extensions to the top tube... that is WAY too much cable and is not only defeating the purpose of the mod (CdA reduction), but probably harming shifting as well, since it creates more cable bend than if you shortened the cables.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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Has anyone done this on a cannondale slice?
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [kimosobbi] [ In reply to ]
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Is your cable housing going all the way through to the BB or does it stop where it enters the frame?

jaretj
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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It must be all the way through to the BB as its not possible to end the outer at the top tube
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [CorryCycles] [ In reply to ]
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That's what I was thinking too and it makes sense but someone linked to some housing stops that lead me to think otherwise.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [CorryCycles] [ In reply to ]
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Can anyone confirm that this mod can be done on a P2? Is the construction of the TT/HT/DT junction the same on the P2 as the P3?

I've got the Jagwire cable stops (# CHA056) from another project and I'm itching to try it. I'm thinking about bonding a short length of housing the end of the cable stops to rout the cable around the bend inside the frame. A few inches should be enough to clear the bend. I think this is preferable to running full cable liner (like the TriRig mod), which would add more cable drag. Any problems with this idea?

ETA: Also, cable housing wouldn't wear out nearly as quickly as liner. I'd be worried about the cable sawing it's way through the liner and into the carbon.

I bought the frame used, so no concern about voiding the warranty!

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Last edited by: endorphin: Apr 19, 13 7:51
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [endorphin] [ In reply to ]
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endorphin wrote:
I'd be worried about the cable sawing it's way through the liner and into the carbon.

That's was I was concerned about. I'm unable to see the video while at work so I don't know how they did it.

jaretj
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [endorphin] [ In reply to ]
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I will be trying it on a P2 soon, will keep ya posted.


endorphin wrote:
Can anyone confirm that this mod can be done on a P2? Is the construction of the TT/HT/DT junction the same on the P2 as the P3?

I've got the Jagwire cable stops (# CHA056) from another project and I'm itching to try it. I'm thinking about bonding a short length of housing the end of the cable stops to rout the cable around the bend inside the frame. A few inches should be enough to clear the bend. I think this is preferable to running full cable liner (like the TriRig mod), which would add more cable drag. Any problems with this idea?

ETA: Also, cable housing wouldn't wear out nearly as quickly as liner. I'd be worried about the cable sawing it's way through the liner and into the carbon.

I bought the frame used, so no concern about voiding the warranty!



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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
I will be trying it on a P2 soon, will keep ya posted.

Subscribing!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I just had the fork off and looked/poked around inside the head tube area. At least for my '12 P2, there were no obstructions (the cables can hug the bend for a pretty clean run). Also, the top tube appears to have lots of layers of carbon and structural integrity to spare. I would trust in the safety factor of the design, but I'm pretty scrawny and tend to keep the 1500W sprints to a minimum...

It's a rainy day here and work is slow... the only thing holding me back is my 3T Ventus; I would have to take a hacksaw to the stem airfoil to get sufficient cable clearance. NBD, but it's a shame to mar something so beautiful!

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [endorphin] [ In reply to ]
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endorphin wrote:
I'm thinking about bonding a short length of housing the end of the cable stops to rout the cable around the bend inside the frame. A few inches should be enough to clear the bend. I think this is preferable to running full cable liner (like the TriRig mod), which would add more cable drag. Any problems with this idea? Also, cable housing wouldn't wear out nearly as quickly as liner. I'd be worried about the cable sawing it's way through the liner and into the carbon.

I haven't done this mod., but I doubt the cable will saw through the liner if you take some simple precautions. Think about all the tight bends that shift cables normally take in cable housing. I've taken apart a lot of bikes, and I've never seen where the shift cable sawed through the housing liner in a tight cable bend. Also remember that shift cables are under a lot less load than brake cables. But if I was doing this mod., I would measure the outside diameter of the shift cable liner and then go buy some flexible hard plastic tubing that has an inside diameter that is nearly the same as the cable liner's outside diameter. I would use a short length of the plastic tubing as a short "housing" piece (with the liner) in the frame to route the shift cable from the top of the toptube to the upper section of the downtube. Then just run the exposed cable inside the downtube to the BB cable guide as before.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Good idea. I even already have a piece of 1/8" inch "high pressure" tubing that would fit the bill. When I checked inside the headtube area, I found that the bend where the TT and DT meet has a decent radius. I was worried that the raw carbon would taper to a point that would concentrate pressure on the cable and expedite the deterioration.

You guys are talking me off the ledge, and not in the good direction...

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [endorphin] [ In reply to ]
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I just did the mod on my P2 and I couldn't be happier with the results. No surprises or screw ups!

If anyone is interested, I posted detailed instructions and pictures on my blog, including what I think are some improvements over TriRig's method:

Cervelo 2.1: DIY internal cable routing

Feedback and questions are welcome.



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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Is this with the shift cables going in the top of the top tube or not? It looks like it isn't, but I can't be 100% sure based on the pic.


jackmott wrote:
while not quite as good as that solution, with just smart cable routing and zip ties you can keep the cables out of direct wind (at low yaw anyway)

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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I just ordered these again to do my P2C conversion that I did with my SLC before. I decided to use these (Modified) because the hole diameter you have to drill is about 4.75mm instead of 7mm and I want as small of a hole as possible.


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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [agreif] [ In reply to ]
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agreif wrote:
Is this with the shift cables going in the top of the top tube or not? It looks like it isn't, but I can't be 100% sure based on the pic.

No, just zip tied to keep the close to the frame.
Which might be bad



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Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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if you have any side shots, I'd be interested in seeing those. Seems like a warranty keeping option with a near similar benefit.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [agreif] [ In reply to ]
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agreif wrote:
if you have any side shots, I'd be interested in seeing those. Seems like a warranty keeping option with a near similar benefit.

Could be worse than having them out in the wind, since they interrupt the airfoil of the downtube and headtube instead.

don't have a side shot handy but it is just a zip tie behind the stem basically.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Nice. Where did you source these?


BMANX wrote:
I just ordered these again to do my P2C conversion that I did with my SLC before. I decided to use these (Modified) because the hole diameter you have to drill is about 4.75mm instead of 7mm and I want as small of a hole as possible.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [gtingley] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if I miss it as there is a lot of content here but has anyone addressed plugging the original cable holes?
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [s.gentz] [ In reply to ]
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I am also about to undertake this project and was curious about what people were doing about plugging the old holes. Also, has anyone tried to mod an older P2 to fit the new torhans bento boxes that come standard on the new 2014 p2's? I would like to see where someone else has drilled into the frame and inserted the post holes to screw a bento into, just trying to clean up my '09 P2 as much as possible. Any other ideas? I would also love to see if anyone has somehow modified a speed concept draft box to fit a P2
Last edited by: Fubar44: Nov 16, 14 7:46
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [gtingley] [ In reply to ]
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Forgot to reply sorry.

http://www.ebay.ca/...;hash=item2595b9d2a2

The original idea came from working in my garage and seeing a solid brake noodle for a V-Brake then realizing that the bend was too tight for my frame. I then searched on Ebay for a better alternative. Seeing the flexible noodles, I figured that I could bend them to my liking and they would also put a little tension on the cable. Also since I am using the Mini I-link housing, the cable guide fits into these very well and allows me to run the housing past the bend in the HT section.

It works very well and once I have the P2 paint sorted out then I can't wait to get this built up and hours and hours with it on the trainer over the winter.
Last edited by: BMANX: Nov 16, 14 8:16
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Fubar44] [ In reply to ]
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Check out TriRig's facebook post about the Service Course build of @PaulBarney Matthews' bike. I asked him about how he installed the Torhans bento with custom m5 bento bosses.
Don't know how to link the post here but I'm sure you'll find it.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Fubar44] [ In reply to ]
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Fubar44 wrote:
Also, has anyone tried to mod an older P2 to fit the new torhans bento boxes? I would like to see where someone else has drilled into the frame and inserted the post holes to screw a bento into, just trying to clean up my '09 P2 as much as possible.

Adding bolt bosses to a carbon frame is absolutely possible. There are various methods, some people have used T-nuts, but this is not a good idea, as you will end up damaging the carbon top tube over a large area. Plus, you can't use the T-nuts as they are designed to be used, you have to use them backwards, they will not be held on securely or by any mechanical means. The far better solution (and the one that all established carbon fiber frame shops and repair houses use) is to use metric rivnuts. These are the strong and secure bosses that allow you to carry a waterbottle on your P2. The holes needed by rivnuts will be small and they can be inserted and installed 'blindly', i.e., without needing access to the back side of the frame wall. If you are very confident in your mechanical and drilling skills, then you can learn about how to install them on the web (lots of videos and info, they are used a lot in aviation). If not, any good and reputable builder who works with carbon fiber frames (calfee, et al) can do it for you. Once you get the bolt bosses in, you can also try the Speedpack 480D or Speedpack 483D for top tube bolt mounting, as well as product from torhans and others.

Greg @ dsw


.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I am seriously considering this especially with me doing the top tube cable entry and of course changing the paint as I am doing. My only concern is drilling out the holes for the M5 as I think maybe M4 or M3 options might be better to keep the hole size smaller. As you might have seen, I did smaller holes for the TT cable entry on the P2 and SLC as I wanted to keep it as small as possible. If I was to do this modification as well, it would have to be as small as possible again. Maybe M4 with a large button head bolt might be the best of both worlds instead of going with the bigger M5 version.

I like in principle what Nick did but with all of those holes in a carbon frame, it sort of spooks me a bit.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Not a bad idea at all to go to one smaller bolt size, but you really should use rivnuts, and not anything else. The top tube is the last place in the world where you would want a catastrophic failure ...



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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I would only use Rivnuts as I am looking for them now and think I will buy some M4 and do some testing before I try this. I have some carbon at home that I can test this on so I might give it a go and mount a bento on the top tube.

M3 Rivnut = 5mm hole
M4 Rivnut = 6mm hole
M5 Rivnut = 7mm hole

Still bigger holes than I really want to drill in the top tube after I have already drilled two holes.
Last edited by: BMANX: Nov 17, 14 7:16
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Sweet. Send me some dimensions/pics of the bike in question and I can recommend an optimal Speedpack and some suggested dimensions for the distance from the steerer to the bosses.

Greg @ dsw



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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Going on my P2C but if I can sort out the details before, I will let you know.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Resurrecting this old lad after coming across the following article and video on tririg, demonstrating the installation of M5 rivet nuts to provide top tube bosses. I am considering this, erm, tentatively. Already planning to make the top tube mod for derailleur cabling.

http://www.tririg.com/...rage_Bosses_Tutorial
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
Resurrecting this old lad after coming across the following article and video on tririg, demonstrating the installation of M5 rivet nuts to provide top tube bosses. I am considering this, erm, tentatively. Already planning to make the top tube mod for derailleur cabling.

http://www.tririg.com/...rage_Bosses_Tutorial

I was about to do this myself and was hesitating then the day I Was like ok I'm doing it... he posted that up and it just reinforced my decision.

Haven't done it yet only because I have the alpha on the way and I want to recable first (through the top tube) so I can set the distance right, that and my DSW bag hasn't shown up yet. But I took all he equipment home from work to do it.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [mrtopher1980] [ In reply to ]
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What frame you thinking about doing this on? I'm considering it for my classic P3, in addition to the top tube cable mod. I'm going for the Torhans Aerobento, there are some smart examples of this out there and it will look pretty sweet behind my Tririg Sigma flat stem..

...if I have the balls...!
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Mine is an open mold, but I had the fork out when swapping on the sigma a few weeks back and could feel inside and there is plenty of meat so not concerned. (ok a little but not much anymore).

The main hesitation on doing the cable mod has actually been there isn't as much of an open area behind the headtube like some of the P2/3 frames have so I was thinking it would bind. I'm going to get around that buy using some steel car brake line tubing. I'll flare the end so it fits in the 5mm jagwire frame stops (will need to be drilled out) the same way you would flare it for a brake line fitting. I Can then pre bend that in a nice soft bend that flows smoothly into the downtube. I should be able to source some that I can put the cable liner inside.

Well I"m going to bend it up and check it will make the curve before I drill :)
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Bmanx,

Did you ever go through with the rivnuts on the top tube on your P2C? I'm really interested because I have been considering this for my P3C, but am put off slightly because the top tube is rounded and it seems to me that compressing the rivet nut will apply uneven pressure, vs doing this on a flatter profile like some of the new frames.

Appreciate any feedback if you did this on yours?

Cheers,
Rich.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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I have not done this yet but when I do, I will most likely address the issue of a rounded top tube by making my own tool to do the crimping of the rivnut and try to match the profile of the top tube so that when I do compress the rivnut it forms to the top tube.

I have not been able to work on the bike at all since painting it as we have had some family issues, selling a home, buying a home and work commitments. Hopefully in April I can finish the build with the modifications to the top tube.

I will most likely go with the Torhan Bento like what Nick did as I believe you can cut it a little near the stem area to better hide the cabling.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly what I was looking at. I was checking out these images from Tririg and the Torhans site, it's a bit hard to make out but it looks to me as though they modified the bento a little bit. Possibly at the front, although it is already concave there to make allowance for the cables but they've definitely lopped something off underneath.. maybe to allow the rise where the cable stop piece sticks up.


Either way, sure looks nice married up to that Sigma XF.





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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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A word of warning about that Torhans aerobento box. It is sleek, looks very nice, and when modified does hide cables very well on a P2/P3 installation. It's great for a photo shoot. However, it is almost useless for storing (specifically removing) gels. It is very very hard to get items into and out of this bento box.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Yep! I took material out of the front and bottom of the box in order to slide it right up against the Sigma XF stem and hide the cables completely.

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TriRig.com
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [michael_runs] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Michael, good to know. I can pick one up pretty cheap, if I do I will certainly test out the function before putting any holes in my frame. May stick to the darkspeedworks.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [michael_runs] [ In reply to ]
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I don't find that to be true - maybe it depends on what gels you're using? I usually use PowerGels, and they go in and out just fine. No issues here.

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TriRig.com
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TriRig] [ In reply to ]
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TriRig wrote:
I don't find that to be true - maybe it depends on what gels you're using? I usually use PowerGels, and they go in and out just fine. No issues here.

How about a gel flask? Cannot stand to use packets.

.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TriRig] [ In reply to ]
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Nick,

Can you share how you routed your rear brake and pics if possible?

Thanks
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
How about a gel flask? Cannot stand to use packets.

Speedpack 483 (or 483D for direct mount):



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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TriRig] [ In reply to ]
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Ok for me because I don't keep gels in my bento, they are in an xlab aero TT on the downtube. Much easier to swig out of a bottle than piss about with wrappers, for me. And I'm doing infinit this year anyway!

Nick, may I ask have you ever tried installing rivet nuts on a round profile tube? As above my P3C has a pretty round top tube and I'm reluctant to try it. I won't take your answer as any kind of a guarantee, just interested to know.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Did mine (open mold) last night. The bends into the downtube are better than expected tested it all out by hand and it is smooth. I did file down a rough edge to make sure it didn't kink the black cable liner but not even sure that was necessary. I found some vinyl or similar hose at work that the jagwire liner easily fits inside, just too small for both though, so if i can figure out a way to fix that inside I may run the liner and shifter cable through that for the upper bend to make sure it has a very smooth curve.







I did not drill for the rivnuts yet but I eyeballed the DSW 483D holding the stem/bars in roughly the place they are when the fork is installed and everything seems like it will line up great. I liked the fact that the torhans could be cut and pushed further forward around the cables but I use honey on the bike and put it in little squeeze bottles, DSW bottle seemed to be a better fit.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [ilove2tri] [ In reply to ]
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I just found pictures from where I tackled this project on my P3 last year (2014). Here are a few of them I put together:


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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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Good job, but you lose style points for not cutting that steerer tube :)
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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sp1ke wrote:
Good job, but you lose style points for not cutting that steerer tube :)

Haha, yeah, I know. I need to just commit and cut the stupid thing.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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I've trolled through the SLC thread and this one before attempting to do the the cable mod on my classic P3. How have you modified the flex brake noodles to fit this application, and what keeps them from dropping through the hole since they are not tapered? Thanks in advance.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Mrtjo] [ In reply to ]
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I drilled out the lip on the inside of the smaller part that I used. It was a PITA to do this and I had bought extra's just in case which hindsight was great because I killed the first one. I used 4 drill bits to get progressively larger but not too big as the flexible noodle is a press fit. I did use some Gorilla Glue on the inside to help hold it as that stuff is amazing.

I think sprayed the entire reworks noodle with plasti dip to give it a uniform look and also when pushed into the hole that I drilled, made it all fit night and tight.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, that is just what I was looking for.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Mrtjo] [ In reply to ]
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Post your finished product.

I have not touched the bike for months as I am moving and with showings, buying and selling the bike has taken a back seat. I will be doing the rivnut TT treatment in the near future as well as I like the idea of cleaning up the TT and having a bit of storage as well.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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"Down" weeks are good for experimenting.

Went ahead and did the cables and bosses. I did not run into any issues. I did modify the bento to be able to push it up next to the stem while accepting the cables.

I have never used the Torhans bento but I can see where some things would be more difficult to get out over others.


Formerly TriBrad02
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TriBrad02] [ In reply to ]
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That is a great front end. Can you remove the bento and show what you have done?
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Formerly TriBrad02
Last edited by: TriBrad02: Apr 22, 15 9:18
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TriBrad02] [ In reply to ]
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How did you install the bosses for the bento? What are they? Been thinking of this mod for my "classic" P2.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [nickag] [ In reply to ]
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Hi mate, have a look a little bit further up in the thread where I posted a link out to the tririg video. Basically you use rivnuts (rivet nuts) and the appropriate crimp tool.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=5436471#5436471


Cheers.
Last edited by: knighty76: Apr 22, 15 7:11
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TriBrad02] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent, that could be my bike but for a different paint scheme and I haven't had the balls to do the bento bosses yet.

Did you just use M5 rivnuts? I was worried about the curve of the top tube causing uneven pressure on the underside when the compressible part of the rivnut is crimped up onto that. Any hiccups?

Cheers,
Rich.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [nickag] [ In reply to ]
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nickag wrote:
How did you install the bosses for the bento? What are they? Been thinking of this mod for my "classic" P2.

Used an Astro 1442 Tool and everyday M5 rivnuts. You can get them off of Amazon.com.

Measured (use 64mm b/w rivnuts as you can use I believe any boss secured bento then if you change your mind on which bento you want), pilot hole, little bigger bit, 1/4 and insert rivnut. Clamped rivnut, unscrewed and good to go. Pretty simple. Took like 15 minutes.

Formerly TriBrad02
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
Excellent, that could be my bike but for a different paint scheme and I haven't had the balls to do the bento bosses yet.

Did you just use M5 rivnuts? I was worried about the curve of the top tube causing uneven pressure on the underside when the compressible part of the rivnut is crimped up onto that. Any hiccups?

Cheers,
Rich.

No clue on what pressure is on each side of the curve but those nuts aren't going anywhere if that helps. I would say to the best you can to be sure the rivnut tool is straight up and down and not canted to either side to help alleviate that worry.

Formerly TriBrad02
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TriBrad02] [ In reply to ]
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Nice one, really good to see this has been done on a P3C, gives me a bit more confidence.

I used about 8 brand new drill bits in tiny little increments when I did the holes for the shifter cable..! Take on board the point about aligning the rivnut tool vertically, good advice.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [TriBrad02] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, is there any type of standard spacing between the top tube rivnuts? Or do the bento boxes have some leeway that allows for different spacing?
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [nickag] [ In reply to ]
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nickag wrote:
Thanks, is there any type of standard spacing between the top tube rivnuts? Or do the bento boxes have some leeway that allows for different spacing?

Torhans has some leeway. 64mm between rivnuts center to center is what I have found with Xlab and Torhans. I do not own a DSW one...yet. I suggest use the #2 & #4 hole from the stem on the Torhans if you use it(they have 4 separate holes) just in case you change to a different bento and need spacing up front for the cables.

Formerly TriBrad02
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
Post your finished product.

Not quite finished product because I still want to install the bosses for a Torhans. I used a modified version of the Cody Beals method. I started with those Jagwire 5mm end stops and took the nose out of a Jagwire 4mm nosed ferrule.



So where Cody had to machine down the OD of the nosed ferrule to fit it inside the end stop, I just pushed the nose through the hole in the bottom and it holds in place nicely. I tried drilling out the ID of one of the stops but it was a disaster! I then cut maybe a 120mm length of 2mm ID PTFE tubing, just enough to clear the bend. I pushed this over the nose and superglued it into place. I'm not totally sure how good that bond is, I'll check it from time to time.

So my shifter cables don't fit nicely into the cable stop as it would do with Cody's method using the 4mm ferrules, but I put a cap on the end and it seems absolutely fine. It doesn't budge under shifting.

And then cabled it up. As ever, hardest bit is getting the bloody inner cables out of the frame at the other end.

As you can see, not much for the wind to be interested in..!









Cheers, Rich.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Nice work, looks great!

I recently sold my P2, nearly two years after doing the cable mod. I kept checking the cable guides, expecting that the PTFE tubing would wear out or the bond with the ferrule would fail. But they held up fine.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [mrtopher1980] [ In reply to ]
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mrtopher1980 wrote:
Did mine (open mold) last night. The bends into the downtube are better than expected tested it all out by hand and it is smooth. I did file down a rough edge to make sure it didn't kink the black cable liner but not even sure that was necessary. I found some vinyl or similar hose at work that the jagwire liner easily fits inside, just too small for both though, so if i can figure out a way to fix that inside I may run the liner and shifter cable through that for the upper bend to make sure it has a very smooth curve.







I did not drill for the rivnuts yet but I eyeballed the DSW 483D holding the stem/bars in roughly the place they are when the fork is installed and everything seems like it will line up great. I liked the fact that the torhans could be cut and pushed further forward around the cables but I use honey on the bike and put it in little squeeze bottles, DSW bottle seemed to be a better fit.


Which frame is this? Or do you have a side shot. I would like to do this on my Kestrel Airfoil, but after the cable goes in it would actually have to come back forward a bit to curve around the top tube / down tube junction. Not sure how well that would work.

I could also possibly just run cable and housing all the way to the bottom bracket and make a slight mod to my bb cover where the cable comes out. I was thinking with cable housing it would be a smoother pull than just the cable and noodle with the zig-zagging it would have to do.


Last edited by: cstoulil: Apr 25, 15 8:24
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Nice work! Looks clean.

Want to throw something out to you since you are considering the Torhans bento. No functional issues with mine after a few rides and eyeball aero has it just fine as well but it is not very aesthetically pleasing to the eye having a round top tube mated with a rigid flat bottom bento. I will probably move back to the canvas style bento just so it sits flush all around the top tube.

I say this because if you have the same eye I do for these things then be sure where you drill the bosses you still have room to put on a different bento and not have issues of it being to far forward on the top tube and the cables getting in the way.

I will say I had 3x gu and 6x Shot Blocks in the Torhans on a recent ride and no issues getting them out.

Once again nice mod on your bike!

knighty76 wrote:
BMANX wrote:
Post your finished product.


Not quite finished product because I still want to install the bosses for a Torhans. I used a modified version of the Cody Beals method. I started with those Jagwire 5mm end stops and took the nose out of a Jagwire 4mm nosed ferrule.



So where Cody had to machine down the OD of the nosed ferrule to fit it inside the end stop, I just pushed the nose through the hole in the bottom and it holds in place nicely. I tried drilling out the ID of one of the stops but it was a disaster! I then cut maybe a 120mm length of 2mm ID PTFE tubing, just enough to clear the bend. I pushed this over the nose and superglued it into place. I'm not totally sure how good that bond is, I'll check it from time to time.

So my shifter cables don't fit nicely into the cable stop as it would do with Cody's method using the 4mm ferrules, but I put a cap on the end and it seems absolutely fine. It doesn't budge under shifting.

And then cabled it up. As ever, hardest bit is getting the bloody inner cables out of the frame at the other end.

As you can see, not much for the wind to be interested in..!









Cheers, Rich.

Formerly TriBrad02
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [cstoulil] [ In reply to ]
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cstoulil wrote:
mrtopher1980 wrote:
Did mine (open mold) last night. The bends into the downtube are better than expected tested it all out by hand and it is smooth. I did file down a rough edge to make sure it didn't kink the black cable liner but not even sure that was necessary. I found some vinyl or similar hose at work that the jagwire liner easily fits inside, just too small for both though, so if i can figure out a way to fix that inside I may run the liner and shifter cable through that for the upper bend to make sure it has a very smooth curve.







I did not drill for the rivnuts yet but I eyeballed the DSW 483D holding the stem/bars in roughly the place they are when the fork is installed and everything seems like it will line up great. I liked the fact that the torhans could be cut and pushed further forward around the cables but I use honey on the bike and put it in little squeeze bottles, DSW bottle seemed to be a better fit.


Which frame is this? Or do you have a side shot. I would like to do this on my Kestrel Airfoil, but after the cable goes in it would actually have to come back forward a bit to curve around the top tube / down tube junction. Not sure how well that would work.

I could also possibly just run cable and housing all the way to the bottom bracket and make a slight mod to my bb cover where the cable comes out. I was thinking with cable housing it would be a smoother pull than just the cable and noodle with the zig-zagging it would have to do.


I'm not sure which frame it is, I had it figured out a while back but now I don't recall.

I thought the same on mine that it would have to come forward, and it did a hair but I filed down the edge inside to smooth it over and I think in the end just used the normal jagwire liner and it was fine. At first I ran a few inches if a thicker wall tubing around the bend with the liner inside that but it was flexing a hair too much and the rear der tension would take up that slack first so I had to remove it.

The angle did cause the cable stops to sit in a manner that they were not entirely flush with the frame. Since this meant that the load was not even I made a little aluminum plate to sit over the holes so that there wasn't excessive pressure on one small spot of the top tube.

Here are pics of the plate, the profile of the bike to get a better idea of how it had to bend and also a shot down the headtube. That final one was actually my initial attempt with the thicker tubing over the jagwire liner but it flexed too much and wouldn't shift right. In the end i just ran the liner and it was fine even pressed against that little rib inside the frame.






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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [mrtopher1980] [ In reply to ]
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Has anyone tried to feed the cables by drilling holes in the front of a soft bag such as DSW or XLab? I really like the idea of totally hidden cables like in the modification to the Torhans aero bento but I just do not find that particular bento box practical. I have drilled holes in the bottom of one of these bags to adjust forward and it wasn't perfectly clean but it did work. But up front with zipper placement may be trickier.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Sep 9, 15 6:54
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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I am thinking about doing the TT rivnut update and then will get a Torhan Bento and remove some of the front section to hide the cables as much as possible.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Have you done this yet? I think I plan to go with Torhans and make small hole like Tririg P2 setup. Seems like a fairly easy cut/ modification on Torhans but didnt know if there were any issues that you ran into.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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No I have not done this yet as I am waiting for TriRig to release their new stem so I can just do everything at one time so the bike has been sitting in the garage 90% complete. I should probably to this part shortly and then wait.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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That is what I plan to do as well.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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I just do not want to cable everything up and then have to make changes on cuts to the bento box which I will modify to hide the cables, what the perfect length going through the stem and just want to do everything one time.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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Won't matter to you Cody since you are on that new beast now, but I thought I would update my post for anybody who refers back to this page.

I replaced my cables with the new segmented Jagwire Elite Link stuff recently, and it simplified the top tube mod. Instead of having to piss about using the nosed ferrule and then bonding the PTFE tubing on the other side of the cable stop, I simply allowed an extra length of liner in the Jagwire system. You can cut the liner independently in that system and have it extend out beyond the end of the segmented outer housing. So I just allowed an extra 120mm or so of liner. Only thing I had to do to accommodate that was drill out the hole slightly in the bottom of the 5mm end stop to allow the liner to pass through, which was really easy in a bench vice.

End results look smart, I reckon.


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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Resurrecting this thread to ask if anyone has experienced any problems after performing this mod.
I'm about to do this to my P2 and want to know what the long term results have been from others.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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No problems at all and if I was smart I would just have gone with Etap and not drilling but none the less, zero issues.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX, did you ever post your final result? I'm always a fan of your builds and I'd like to see how yours turned out.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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The bike is currently on trainer duty in the basement and with FLO30's. When I get it ready for the net race I will post some pictures and I hope it will be sunny. I think it was down to about 14.75lbs in race set-up. The SLC is currently sitting at 12.95lbs and I am thinking of either selling the English or converting that to 1x10 as well.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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Why bother... etap.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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Are you serious? Do I need to explain the economics behind the decision making process here?
Don't be daft.
Last edited by: Ellsworth53T: Apr 19, 17 16:28
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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Mine is the last picture above. I've had no problems at all, and I thoroughly recommend segmented housing because being able to simply extend some extra liner through into the frame makes things a lot easier.

And I hear you guys loud and clear about etap, but that is a lot of money for many peeps. This is a much cheaper way of hiding everything from the wind.


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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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I like the way you've done it, knighty. I was admiring your work before posting.
Glad to here the bikes are holding up.

I got some nylon for my 3d printer and was thinking of adding a cable cover / port that over the inputs. It would look similar to the shiv tri port behind the stem. This would let me cover the cables and put my bento flush with the back. Then I'd have full use of the bento rather than using it partially as a cable cover.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [CyclingBrad02] [ In reply to ]
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So if you're running an ilink type cable with full liner, why do you need an inset cable stop? Couldn't you just drill a hole in the frame just big enough for the cable liner to pass through, and use the top tube itself as the cable stop? The i-link would press against the top tube. This is shifter cable, not brake, so there wouldnt be tremendous amount of force.

Minimal hole drilled...?

I just got a P3c so considering the mod.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I suspect most of the fibers on the top tube are running along the length of the tube, and if this is the case that cable rubbing against the frame will split the tube in half. Not much strength in that direction.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I did try this at first and did not like how it worked. I think it was due to the liner being up against the smaller drilled hole in the frame and possible kinking. I did only do a 4mm hole instead of others doing the 5mm hole. The nice part about the way that I did it is that the flexible noodle gently guides the housing down from the head tube and into the down tube.
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks!

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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So what I did was basically the Tririg version, but:

  • I drilled the hole a bit smaller than the Jagwire insert, then used a dremel bit to widen the hole. This let me get the hole as small as possible, dremel/check fit/dremel etc



  • I ran the cables down through the frame, but couldnt just "slide the liner up". So instead I took off the fork. Ran the liner up from the BB, it came out the headtube, then with needle pliers I got the liner up through the holes above. Then I ran the cable back down through the liner. This was a lot faster than fishing the cables down through the frame.




Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Pictures????
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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I didnt take any during the process.

The after looks a lot like everyone elses. I put black electrical tape over the previous downtube stops = not pretty.

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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Do I see you added a Jagwire Pop link at the end of the rear brake line as it enters the top tube? Could you have gotten away without using that?
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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I know it's an old post... but I recently bought a P3C frame from the old days. I've been inspired by your nice and clean setups. I still love the clean design of this frame and could find one for cheap. The build is far from being finished, it's going to be 1x di2 with the cable mod routing, so fairly easy cable management here.
I wanted to hide the unused holes on the downtube, not sure I've seen a lot of feedback about that. I stripped the paint by sanding and I stuck a beveled 6mm carbon rod in both unused holes, finished with epoxy resin and more sanding.
I also got rid of the front derailleur holder for a nice finish. I'm currently painting the frame (work in progress, still some work to do). Sorry about the crappy pics, they were not meant for instagram haha.



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Re: P2/P3 custom cable routing (TriRig.com) [pwai] [ In reply to ]
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pwai wrote:

Pretty stunning start to your project. Definitely post again when its done, would love to see it !

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