Awesome!

How much did this cost you? How well does it perform?

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.
I'm Phrom Phoenix!

very nice! just curious, the small board that you referred to from the shifters. Do you think that was a control board? If so, did you happen to notice if anything looked proprietary? Just wondering if it would be possible to just set up your own board versus cannibalizing a pair of STI shifters (I might have misunderstood, maybe you didn't do that) for the board. I actually didn't think you needed a control board so hopefully I'm misunderstanding you.

Very clean setup. I was debating doing this and was trying to figure out where the best spot for the shifter buttons really is. Would it be where you put it and Shimano puts it would a rocker dpdt switch mounted un the underside at the tip possibly work better. You could even hide the buttons under the bar tape...!

I got everything from nasbar for about 1000. Could probably have pieced it together cheaper by buying of ebay though. As far as performance goes, I dont have the chain on yet but it should perform as well as di2 should since the only thing that was modified was the shifters.

Hello, right now you definitely need to part out the sti shifters. The circuit board (which is probably better described as a black box) converts the signal from the momentaries to canbus. From what ive read, it is proprietary and cant be found off the shelf. I was thinking about using a spdt center off paddle switch but decided on these instead since theyre water proof and easily available. But pretty much any momentary switch will work...for satellite shifters, just wire them in parallel

Which shifter is the black box in (L or R?)

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Styrrell

They are in both shifters (you can see the black box in the shifter pic i posted). They are small, like about 1 cubic inch and the wires plug directly into them. Come to think of it, a budget build could be done by doing rear shifting only...then all youd need is the r shifter, rear derailleur, and battery mount.

nice work. in my opinion, one of the best elements of di2 is on a TT/tri bike--shifting at the horns. you can right that up, i'm sure, but it's a really strong aspect of DA di2.

Nice! Can't wait to see how it works with the chain on.

I'm kind of split on whether to just go with a SHIV Comp and wait for Ultegra Di2 to come out (hopefully it will fit) or SHIV Elite/Pro... Your set-up makes me want to wait especially if it's at the $1,000 mark~

I agree. I also put momentary switches by the levers (left up, right down). Satellites can be rigged up anywhere. One thing about ultegra that's better than dura ace is the wire diameter...it's only 5mm compared to 8mm which makes routing a lot easier.

wire diameter on da di2 is 2.5-3.5mm, depending on the wire.

i think you mean connector diameter. the smaller connectors on di2 are ~5.5mm, but some are larger, which is the problem -- it's not the wire diameter.

Really like how open source Di2 is. Great stuff!

That is awesome! I have been following a thread over on fairwheel bikes that suggest Di2 ultegra is much tougher to do these mods. I'm glad to see your work.

Keep the info coming

Very cool

shimano is going to be so happy about it...

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

I dont think they will care much. The shift buttons themselves are very cheap, but to get it to work you need to buy a $450 road shifter set to cannabilize for the electronic modules. I doubt many people are going to copy locutus' very nice work. Shimano could have very easily put the electronics in the deraileurs, then you could easily make your own TT shifters. I don't think the descision was by chance.

Now if someone can come up with a reasonably priced control module, then I think shimano might not be happy.

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Styrrell

PM me your address and I'll send you a couple of the brand new Specialized Hydroflo slowtwitch bottles for starting this very neat thread.




We got a whole box that eventually will find homes in forum users places. :-)

nicely done.

2 thumbs up

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MyGearGarage - Track all your gear!

Thoroughly impressed. Very nice!!!

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Hans Bielat
TorHans LLC Co-Founder, Owner, Chief Innovation Officer
http://www.torhans.com

Do you have the spec for the message that are used (and bus rate etc) or did you reverse engineer it? I'm very interested in more details about the electronics if you're willing to share. Cool project!

That is totally awesome. I'm guessing you could also use your protocol for a MTN bike XTR version?

Can you please PM me? I have a few technical questions.

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AndyF
bike geek

How much damage did you do to the STI levers? Do you think you could rebuild them if necessary?

I'm asking because I'm wondering it this a reasonable approach to take in order to add DIY remote shifting to a road bike with Ultegra Di2: pull the module, solder on additional leads for more buttons, reinstall the module.

Great work,

Scott

ps. I also wonder if the module might some day be available as part of repair assembly.

I bet Locutus has a beard.

Pardon my ignorance regarding Di2, but can the dura ace time trial shifters be used with the ultegra group?

The electronics disassemble out of the sti without having to destroy anything. There was two torx screws and an e clip. I was trying to hint that one could easily add on remote shifters to ultegra di2 stis by splicing into the wires running from the x/y buttons up under the hoods. It might be tight but should work.

As long as there is room to tuck away the little modules and a place for a couple momentary switches, it would work

This is bad ass.

Sorry, this particular method didnt really involve reverse engineering anything. The exisiting electronics from the STIs were used and the shimano x/y buttons were swapped out for momentary spst switches. I did hook the system up to a scope when i bench tested everything and was able to see very rapid voltage spikes and drops which I am guessing is how everything communicates.

The STIs can be found new for $340...probably cheaper used. Still some what spendy but a huge savings over dura ace di2 all together

Totally unrelated, but why do people ask others to PM them, when they want to ask a question?

You have the question, you initiate the contact???

No. Ultegra shifters can not be used with the Dura Ace system or vice versa. The electronics are set up differently.

No those have different wiring and they don't have (or need) the electronic brain. The brains for DA are in the derailleurs and the buttons are dumb, but this requires more wires going from button to derailleur.

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Styrrell

Heres a few more pictures:

Side view:


Battery mount under seat. Leads are ran into a tiny hole into the seat post where the battery is housed.


Front:

Did you make that behind the saddle bottle mount? It looks great!

Yes, home made with carbon fiber. Making flat things out of carbon was surprisingly easy.

Suppose you see an interesting post and want to talk to that person. But they're not set up for PM. How would *you* solve that problem?

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AndyF
bike geek

Locutus appears to receive personal messages.

I may have missed the PM button, I guess. I scanned for it initially, of course, but didn't see it. My apologies, sentania. I didn't mean to pollute the board.

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AndyF
bike geek

Personally I don't care, I just have never understood why people always ask others to PM them.... with the acceptance of PMs indicating desire to be contact directly or not, combined with the presence of an email address providing a preferred means...

/shrug

Got it. I just missed seeing the PM button this time. I had simply forgotten where it was.

Maybe, in a way, this also helps you understand why people do this. (If your browser is stretched out, the PM button is waaaaaaaay over in the bottom right, whereas all the other user info is located on the left side.

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AndyF
bike geek

The color scheme on those buttons could use some work....

Locutus,

Based on your tinkering, do you need to use a front derailluer with Ultegra? Could you run a single chainring with out using the front der?

What shimano parts did you buy?

It looks like you used the Cateye remote buttons, right?

Thanks for posting and putting up with all our questions.

Scott

Hello, I'll double check tonight but I'm fairly sure the front derailleur is not needed and you can run just the rear. The shimano parts I bought were the front and rear dérailleur, battery mount, shifters and front harness connecting the two shifters (this could be made but you would lose the ability to adjust the derailluers and the battery level function).

I ordered some small water proof spst momentary switches...they were only $1 ea. I didn't use the cat eyes because they are more of a surface mount switch.

Just checked...everything works fine with only the rear derailler and shifter so you could use a single chainring up front with no problem.

just want to applaud your ingenuity, again, and say that's a nice looking setup! also, your homemade shifters are shorter than the shimano ones (da di2, at least....presumably shorter than the ulty TT shifters will be, too, whenever they appear). doesn't matter for tri purposes but could matter for TTs (UCI regs).

Locutus,

Thanks for the thread. This has got me really interested in ultegra Di2.

So, while walking the dog in the snow this evening, I started wondering how I could do this with my TT bike. I am happy about putting two buttons on each of the aero bars but am not sure that I have space to make it easy to do with the bulhorns (I am not sure how long the internal bits of the brake levers are). This got me thinking along the following:

1. Why do I need two buttons for the front derailleur? One button by itself would be fine as all you need it to do is to move the other way (i.e. if it is on the big chain ring, it just needs to go down to the small one and vice versa). I didn't think any more about that though because...

2. Why can't I just get away with four buttons (one "up" on left aero and left bullhorn, and one "down" on each of the right ones)? Basically, why can't I sequentially shift up and down without having to think about whether I am moving the front or rear derailleur.

After I got to the sequential idea, I gave up on 1 as it sounded a lot better!

For the final year of my engineering degree (well over twenty years ago now) I built a boat about 1m long that had a tiny Z80 computer in there that took instructions from a PC on the shore (steer 270 degrees, "slow") and it controlled a fancy rudder that I made (Kitchen rudder controlled by two servos), an electric engine and read the inputs going into a LCD on a fluxgate compass. Based on what it read, it speeded up, turned right, etc.

Things must have moved on a lot since then (no more assembler language or Modula-2) but it can't be too hard to program a microcontroller (Android phone?) to know what gearing you have on the bike, what gear you are in at any time and then (based on whether it gets an "up" or "down" command and the gearing table) change up or down. A short press could mean just one change, a longer press could mean make sure you are in the biggest or smallest chainring).

To get it to fit in with the Ultegra Di2 stuff that you have found you would need to get the microcontroller to take inputs from the up/down buttons (nothing to do with Di2). That's easy. The program would read these and then close one of four momentary switches into the little "black" boxes that you discovered in the shifters (e.g. if the input is "down" and it decides just to move the rear derailleur down then it virtually closes the momentary switch to the "black" box that normally deals with "down" - if it decides it needs to change chain rings it virtually closes the "down" switch to both front and rear derailleur).

Saying it like this doesn't sound too hard. And I don't think it is. You (or me, or whoever) just need to do what you did but insert a little computer between your new momentary switches and the two "black" boxes.

The question for me then is do I want to spend a lot of money on Ultegra Di2? Not sure yet but I have just bought four buttons...

Out of interest, if you have a photo of the switches on the bullhorns, I'd love to see how you have done them.

The guys at Fair Wheel bikes have already done most of this creating a custom programmed sequential shift mtn bike using DA Di2.

One of the reasons that you can't use just one button for the front in a stock format is that you'd, as you noted, need a logic board to interpret the if/then logic on which way to shift the front depending on current position. Plus, honestly, I don't know if this would be a good idea as I know at least in my own case, I've been in the "what front ring am I in?? well I'll just try to shift to the ring I want to be in without looking to make sure that's where I am..." position and if I say I was trying to get to the big ring and was already there... well a single button push would obviously suck.

Hello,

As was mentioned earlier, sequential shifting has been developed for DA di2. Problem is the communication protocol is different than ultegra di2 so in order to work in sequential shifting for ultegra, a whole new system would have to be developed. It is a neat idea so its definitely something i would like to attempt. Theres two ways of approaching it: one is the way you suggested, the other would be to build a controller that uses canbus itself and will therefore do away with the need of the "black boxes". Right now, i am still in the process of decoding how the system is communicating. Placing a controller in line with the black boxes would be the easiest but probably the bulkiest option and keeping things internal is a priority.

Half the fun of having a di2 system is looking for ways to modify it....and i definitely like the challenge. Be sure to update with anything you develop!!

For the bullhorn shifters, I used the cateye remote buttons. They are small, flat, surface mount, tactile switches. I use vision levers and found there was plenty of room for two on each one. The good thing about those buttons is that they are surface mount...you can still run the wires internal but mounting the switches doesn't require drilling and can be placed anywhere. I will take some pictures and post them here when I get home.

Thank you for suggesting these ideas and have fun on your project!

Locutus, did you use the Ultegra Di2 system checker at all when you did this? If not, it's probably something you would like a bit. Lets you change around function of the buttons, reprogram shift points, etc...

Meet the man behind the DIY Shimano Di-2 Ultegra TT shifters. Our random age grouper of the week.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ave_Toshio_2563.html

H

Hey,

is it possible to use the DA shifter and levers and connect them with the Ultegra System?

Ultegra and Dura Ace electronic are not compatible

Even the shifters?

Why do you think someone did this DIY Ultegra project for the TT shifters? Yes the shifters don't work.

Why is it impossible to connect the shifter with the Ultegra cable in some way??? There must be a way to bridge this issue.

I think it's more about cost saving? If you wanted to use the DA shifters, you would need to buy both the DA Di2 TT shifters and brake levers/shifters AND the Ultegra Di2 brake levers/shifters, then extract the black boxes from the Ultegra units to use in conjunction with the DA Di2 shifters. As I understand it, this would work because I think the DA Di2 shifters are just a plain switch like you need to interface to the Ultegra Di2 black boxes? But it would be extremely expensive compared to the DIY approach in the OP, and you may as well just buy the full DA Di2 groupset if you were going to do that.

I figured it was the same reason you never saw "Ultegra" bar end shifters on the mechanical 10 speed. There really isn't much to them.


I don't know why people do a lot of things on this forum. Simple question really.

Thanks for this.

I've been doing a bit more digging around and looking at prices and so on. My thinking so far:

1. If I do it, there's obviously a risk of breaking something expensive. I guess that is partly mitigated by there being some sort of chance that some shimano TT shifters will come out some time and so if I only break the shifter controllers its not too bad. The cateye remote buttons aren't available in the UK from what I can see but I know what you mean now so I could create my own.

2. I like the sequential shifting mountain bike that has already been developed. That's got to be the way to go. There seems to be two ways of doing that. The inline way and the canbus way.

3. Starting with the inline way, at the simplest, I just need to come up with a decision tree to move the front and/or rear derailleur depending on what gear I am in and whether it is an "up" or "down" command. However, I am not that good at doing that with simple components (I'm bound to get it wrong n+1 times) and so I was looking at an Arduino. This is a cheap open source prototyping platform. It is easily programmable and has built in input/output ports. I need to do some more reading but it seems like it should be relatively straightforward to get it to read two inputs and change four outputs. It's also got the handy feature of working on the same voltage as the shimano battery. There's also quite a bit of open source code for it to give me clues how to programme it (e.g. debouncing buttons). I would guess one of the problem will be waterproofing it and making it reliable. It will always be a risk doing an ironman with it...

4. The thing about the Arduino is that it also looks like it can be used to sniff out canbus signals. Quite a few people have done work on that in the context of cars and there is an open source project out there to make it easier. So, version 2 would be to try to get the Arduino to decode the shifters and then pretend to be them. Not sure whether that is possible yet though but from what I have read it would seem like it is possible. The Arduino forums are a great source of info for this sort of thing.

5. Out of interest, it seems you can link an Arduino to an ANT/ANT+ module. This, linked to your powermeter and cadence, could get you a fully automatic gearbox. I am sure it would be a completely useless but it couyld be fun trying...

DA Di2 was first generation in some ways, and Ultegra offered a chance to rethink some of this. The main difference is they went to
a 2 wire wiring harness with Ultegra Di2 vs the 4 wire harness in DA. Everyone assumes at some time there will be a new rev of DA designed around the
2 wire harness...that is not yet announced but rumored around late 2012.


Until the two systems utilize the same wiring harness, they won't be comparable, hence the need for the 'hacks' like the Ultegra TT shifters.


.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

I did not use the system checker but after looking into its capabilities, it does sound interesting. Looks to be fairly cheap and can check all the components at the same time. Thanks!

Dont worry about breaking anything as long as you take your time. The modules will pop right out after you remove the torx screws.

I did look into the automotive canbus systems which do seem to have signal cloning capabilities. The down side is that they are 3 wire shielded systems. From some of the diagrams, the third looks to be a ground but Im not too sure yet. I did order a canbus signal analyzer and software that can interpret the signals as an input. The easy part will be getting the signal...the tough part will be finding a way to clone it. Either way, the first step seems to be interpreting the signal which will be done soon hopefully.

As you can see, all sorts of fun can be had with di2. What type of switches did you end up going with?

I know some stuff about CAN which might help. The auto industry uses differential (2-wires) CAN-bus because they have all kinds of electronics and have to be robust against noise. Since there are almost no electronics (compared to a car) on a bike I would think that the 3 wires are just Ground, Vcc & CAN-signal. After all the ECU in the STIs also need power so I would expect them to get the Vcc & Ground from the battery. Then the Signal is just single wired which should be plenty. Especially since there is no need for a high data rate. That's all just my guesses but I'd be very curious what's the setup. (my guess is 125 Kbit)

To generate the signals all you need is a uC with a CAN controller. They're super cheap and nowadays there are tons of uC that have one already integrated. I think the Arduino doesn't have any but for such an easy setup with just 1-2 messages you can hook up a controller over SPI or whatnot. I think there are also some projects that already have realized Arduino+CAN.

What if I only use the housing of the DA TT Shifter and put the cables of the STI`s in, connectin the cable with the buttons? Will this work?

Hello, the DA di2 barend shifters are just momentary switches so those could be used with the module from the ultegra shifters. You will need to use the housing and switches, not just the housing though.

So I will need the cables from the Ultegra STI`s too? For the shifter and the levers? I have to buy two pairs of U STI`s?

You will need the Ultegra STIs (one set) and the cable that connects the two (called handlebar harness) as well as some type of momentary switch for shifiting. You can use the DA di2 shifters as the momentary switches but you will still need the parts from the Ultegra STIs. Sorry, its a little confusing at first.

For shifting on the base bar, you can use any type of momentary switch also, even the DA brake/shifters...just wire them to the module the same way as the bar end shifters.

So to make it clear, I need:

Electronic Kit Ultegra
DA Di2 TT Shifter
DA Di2 TT Levers
Handlebar harness

is that right?

The question is whether all that ends up any cheaper than just buying the DA Di2 mechs and cables instead of the Ultegra.

Electronic Kit Ultegra (FD, RD, Shifters, junction boxes, battery, battery mount, harnesses).
DA Di2 TT Shifter (or the much much cheaper cateye buttons)
DA Di2 TT Levers (or any momentary buttons, most of which can be much cheaper.)
Handlebar harness

Soldering skills and a bit of nerve.

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Styrrell

It should. My project cost me about $1000 all together including switches and a LiPo battery. Even if one where to use the DA shifters and brake levers, it will still be cheaper....just not as cheap.

Styrrell has it correct. Though the only harness you really need is the handle bar harness since it has the adjustment button and battery level monitor. You can make the rest of the harness and the junction box and save about $100 if you are comfortable with your soldering skills. Like he said, any momentary button (push, tactile, lever, toggle...whatever) can be used to trigger the shifting. But if you dont mind the cost of the DA shifters and levers, you can wire those in in place of the momentaries. Let me know if youd like to see a wiring diagram of how I ended up doing things. If theres interest, I can post it/send it.

A wiring diagram would be great. I don`t know the buttons you`ve mentioned because I`m from Germany, maybe it is possible to send me any links of those buttons.

Thank you in advance.

Sounds like somebody needs to take this to market. If Shimano makes no 2 wire TT shifter the market could be huge.

The official Shimano Ultegra electronic TT shifter is supposed to hit stores in September

Just in time for another season to have passed.

Heres a diagram and some notes:



Also, a link to the cateye buttons which are very popular for this application:
http://www.performancebike.com/...chTerm=cateye+remote

Fascinating stuff - thanks for all the detail.

Since you are answering questions, and I have not seen this clearly in the thread, how did you manage the brake levers? It is not clear if
you deployed satellite shifters or not on the brakes. If so, could you post pics and provide a bit more detail? From the talk about simple
surface mount, it seems one could splice a shifter switch onto any pursuit/brake combo , such as my Vision setup.

I'm beginning to get enthused on this...

.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

Yes, I have the vision levers also and mounted the switches on top and on the side ( so that the thumb can trigger down, finger trigger up). The good thing about these switches is that they are surface mount and small...and can be put any where youre willing to run them. I will take pictures and post soon.

Thanks a lot for this. So I connect the cateyes with the blackbox of the sti for the extensions and then I Need the handlebar harness for shifting at the breaks?
Two pairs of these cateyes are a Lot more cheaper than the DA shifter and levers

No sorry, 4 pairs of the cat eyes buttons!?

After looking at some shimano tech docs (http://techdocs.shimano.com/...6577569830773904.pdf) it seems that the thing to get is main lever assemblies:
Y6VE98010 right side
Y6VD98010 left side

I wonder when Shimano will start selling replacement parts. Of course, our discussion of this may force them to not sell any replacement parts.

Scott

Hello, You will need a minimum of two pairs (or two double throw switches if you choose). If you want shifting on the base bars, youll need two additional pairs.

On that tech document I dont see the electronic assembly labeled. The part number you listed seems to be the mechanical parts to the lever assembly. Youre right though: it would be a whole lot easier if shimano sold just the internals.

Heres some more pictures for those who asked. The first couple pictures show the routing for the handlebar harness, third picture show shift buttons on the vision levers (sorry for all the scratches!), fourth show the wiring for the internal battery to the external battery mount under the seat, and the last shows that the ultegra di2 wiring will fit in existing holes with no mods. Im happy to answer anymore questions or take more pictures if you need.

Thanks for the idea and info Dave.

The Di2 upgrade kit came on Friday (Euro 999). I resisted doing anything 'til 8pm Saturday and spent two-half hours putting the kit on my Planet X Stealth. I had to use external wiring and took my time but got it working with the STIs (dangling from the aero bars). The battery did mean I lost one of the bottle mounts (or have to use a tiny bottle). I can see the battery getting put in the seat post before too long.

Today I probably spent three hours then making it work with my bars. I couldn't get the cateye remotes in the UK (and the US shop still hasn't delivered) and so I went with a combination of: two momentary push buttons on each of the aero bars and an "(on) off (on)" toggle switch on each of the bull horns. I used some blue tack and tape to keep the toggle switches to front of the brake levers (after removing the rubber caps). To block up the holes in the aero bars I cut up a DVD case and drilled small holes in it for the push buttons.

I didn't bother undoing the torx screws in STI levers, just cut the wire and pulled the "black" box out. I then used three small junction boxes to connect the "up", "down" and ground wires. The "black" box and the junction boxes fit inside the aero tubes.

It rides well. The toggle switches (which go left/right) are intuitive when on the bull horns. The push buttons on the aero bars are less intuitive but I am sure that will come with time. The best bit so far was coming down a hill and turning left just after a parked car. I was on the bull horns and just changed from big to little chain ring, changed the cassette without worrying about getting my hands back to the ends of the aero bars. And the shifting has been good, even changing chainrings while pedalling hard up a hill.

As I have done everything in a bit of a rush, with cheap and ugly switches, I am going to take a bit of time riding it and then decide what switches I want, etc. Then I'll put on the new switches, new bar tape on and get rid of the junction boxes. Oh, and it needs to be more waterproof. I am sure it could handle a bit of rain at the moment but I wouldn't be confident about a long ride on a rainy day.

My spring project will then be to turn it into a "sequential" gear box (i.e. deciding when to move chain rings and cassette at the same time). The programming should be relatively straightforward - I've had a play with it in VBA - and the input/output hardware should be pretty easy and small. The issue then is getting a small microcomputer that will fit into one of the shifters with a battery. The Arduino Nano might just fit the bill (and there actually even smaller ones). Even if I can get it to work though, it would need to be reliable and robust enough to use in the rain. That's going to be the difficult bit.

Here's some photos. Remember, I am still at the "its ugly but works" stage.

Firstly may I say what you have done is great and well done on the nerve to try this with relitivly expenceive kit and kudos to you to go on and to produce this thread.

But please, please, please can you and other people who may copy this idea read and take on board what I am about to say.

I flew RC Helicopters before Triathlon and saw the rise of Lipo batterys to the Hobby market.

These batterys have separate cells to make up one "Pack"

LiPo batteries should only be charged on a charger that is specifically compatible with LiPo batteries and some have a built-in cell balancer.

Unbalanced cells within a pack will reach full charge at different times, increasing the chances of one cell being overcharged and causing a fire.

Lithium polymer cells (Lipo) can swell and expand when shorted, charged incorrectly, overcharged, overdischarged, heated, punctured, dropped, kicked, or otherwise mistreated. And the results can be catastrophic as this can also cause fires

LiPo batteries should only be used in conjunction with a low-voltage cutoff or alarm to prevent the pack from being discharged too far (Fire again)

Also never store a LiPo battery at full charge LiPo batteries should be stored with a percentage of its total capacity, usually around 50%. Refer to your battery’s instructions on storing the battery safely

Treated properly Lipo batterys are safe and powerfull

When I was flying RC Helis I have seen Lipo fires 1st hand and they are scary, no warning and the things are in flames and belive me they burn.....really burn !!

But hey at the end of the day it may never happen to you and it is your bike after all treat them right and it won't IMO and it's likly not just mine, I wouldn't "hide" one in my pride and joys frame and charge it with any old charger and if for some reason I did (and I wouldn't) the bike would not come in the house it would stay at the bottom of the garden !

If you think however I am taking $hit google lipo battery dangers

(No disrespect to you great job + thread, just making you aware of some potential dangers)

Looking good! Its nice shifting from the bullhorns right? Luckily switches are easy and cheap to swap so if you decide you dont like your current set up, its easy enough to experiment with different buttons. Im not sure what the cost of international shipping is but if youd like, I can pick up some of the cateyes and forward them to you. They worked out great mounting to my levers. Be sure to keep us all updated on your sequential shifting project!

Hey,

but how do I connect 4 pairs of momentary switches? Can I use two EW-SD50 cables and connect them to the blackbox and the momentary switches? Your diagram shows only the option with two pairs of switches.

Thanks for helping me.

You just splice into the three wires from the black box. I modified the diagram to show an example of how it can be done. Let me know if you need help with anything else or want further clarification.

how long is the cable from the blackbox to the STI levers? So, I splice the cables (yellow, grey and purple) and extend them with a normal cable to the break levers?

Hello the wires from the black box to the the sti shift buttons are only about 2 inches long so once you remove the black box, you'll need to lengthen the wires. Yes, you just splice in and extend to the brake levers. If you'd like actual pictures of how I did mine, I can take some when I get home. It sounds complicated but is fairly simple once you start things.

Hi,

pictures would be great. Sorry for my questions, but I don`t want to make mistakes.

I cut the wire between the "black box" and the switch in the STIs without undoing or unscrewing anything.

Then I joined the wires to my new switches using blocks like this:


I cut the connector blocks into six separate one to make it easier to fit inside the aero bars. Each side (left: chainring, right: cassette) has three blocks (up, down, ground) and I put the end of each of the three "black box" wires into the end of one of the connectors (and screwed it in). Then I screwed in the wires from the two switches (aero bar and bull horn) to the other side of the connector block. So if you look at the connector block, one side has one wire going in (from the "black box") and the other side will have two, three or four wires coming out (two "ups", two "downs" and 2, 3 or 4 grounds, depending on the type of switches you use).

Using connector blocks adds weight, makes things a little harder to waterproof and stuff but makes it very easy to change switches, swap the "up" one for the "down" one, etc. Once I am happy with my switches and set up I will just join the wires direct and get rid of the connector blocks.

Out of interest, I think I like the toggle switches compared with the momentary switches. A few times I have tried to "toggle" the momentary switches on the aero bars and so that is something I might change.

This is very cool. My buddy and I have been talking about trying something similar for months and you have inspired me to try it. I have a few more questions. First, Is the battery mount necessary if you plan to run a different battery? Scond, should I get a down tube harness just to use the connectors if I pan to make my own harness and junction connections? And finally, do the di2 derailleurs just have connectors on them or is there a short harness coming off them to solder to? Thanks for all the great information and pictures.

I wonder the same thing. Do you really need the battery mount? If you run a different battery like Locutus did, couldn't you simple run the pos-neg wires does to where you join all your wires?

It's my understanding that there is a CAN controller chip in the battery mount that is required to interface with the system; it doesn't just send constant uninterrupted current. So the Di2 battery mount is required; the battery itself can be third-party.

Thanks Carlton. That is the last bit I needed to get mine set up.

has anyone else heard of availability problems with DA di2 TT setup? I have been trying to get it for > 2months now from my LBS in FLA. At first it was out of stock for 2 months, then when it came in finally last week, it was apparently external wiring harness not internal. They are now telling me the internal wiring harness is on backorder at wholesaler AND Shimano? My LBS is calling the Shimano rep to see if they can locate this internal harness. when is the Ultegra TT coming out? i might as well wait?

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John

What do you need exactly? Di2 TT with internal wire? Which length internal? I think I can help you out.
Send me a PM.

this is really nice work,

---

Formely stef32

This is so fun! Thanks for all information. I did this to my newbuilt chinese frameset. Fully internal cable routing.
http://technicmix.bloggplatsen.se/

Christer, that setup looks absolutely awesome, well done on some extremely ingenious and well-thought-out work.
I recommend anyone thinking of DIY Ultegra Di2 to look at what the guy has done on his blog.

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-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

   
Finding this site is gonna cost me lots of $$$. Check out a Clifford Valet switch. 3 wire with rubber buttons. Would mount nicely in my aerobars.

I would be very interested to see/ get the diagram, since im about to embark on a P5 / SHIV - TT project, and I believe your Info to be of a vital significance to me right now (national TT championship end of May).

I would greatly appreciate it, cheers so much.

What are the details on the frame? Looks much more aero than other Chinese frames I've seen.

After a bunch of reading this thread and ordering and delays I have finally finished (well mostly) my Shiv Ui2 project. It was not that difficult once I figured out what i wanted to do and use for parts and such. I did run into a few issues that had to be overcome but nothing that difficult. All in all it cam out pretty clean looking and all that is left to wire up the remote switches on the bullhorns. This process will be easy as the wires to the shifter black box are already in place and just need to be connected to the cat eye buttons I have.
Have only done the around the block so far but the shifting is crisp and quick. The bike needs fitting as well. Them stem/spacers are going to get changed and removed as it is too short and too high for now.

Here are the pics.


Here are the custom made shifters. I bought a carbon fiber tube cut and drilled holes for waterproof switches and put the back box inside carbon tube which then slid over the aero extension.


pretty clean cockpit...


and finally the battery lives inside the seat post. This was one of the more difficult parts. I had to cut and grind down battery mount so it would fit down the seat tube. This took a while to get just small enough but once it was it slide right in and the battery is fixed in the post.


A special thanks to Locutus who was a great help with the start of this thread and by patiently answering a number of private messages I sent him.

Now I need to get out and ride!!!

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JW (on the comback trail)

Hello,

I posted some basic diagrams on how to modify and wire in momentary switches. If youd like, I can email them to you or help you out with specific details. Just let me know! And sorry for the delay in responding!

Dave

Looks great! How difficult was it to trim down the battery mount to fit inside your seat tube? Your setup is very clean, good job!

Hey Dave,

sorry for not coming back to you. I had knee surgery 2 weeks ago. As soon as I will be fit I post some pics of my BMC TM01 with the DIY Ultegra Di2.

once I commited to making the battery mount smaller it was not so bad. I first removed the locking lever by pushing out the e-clip then removing the rod and platic lever. this is where it got interesting. It was still no where close to fitting. So i started o with some sharp tin snips and cut away anything that looked "extra." It still did not fit. I then used my dremel with a grinding bit to finish it off. It then fit down the seat tube. I soldered some wires to the remaing prongs, heat shrink wrapped connection and attached a plug to match the LiPo battery on the other end. The battery fit snug in te seatpost so I did not have to do much there except put the excess wire up into the seatpost.
I also forgot to mention that I made my shimano wires longer as the longer ones all seem to be out of stock! I will try and take some more pics of the small parts. I will warn you that I did not try to make the stuff I knew would be internal pretty.

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JW (on the comback trail)

Where's a good place to find waterproof buttons to purchase?

I'm doing a similar project, but I'm really worried about what my sweat is going to do to those buttons.

I've tried a bunch of google searches, but I'm ending up with large waterproof / marine buttons or little ones that aren't.

Is there a good source for this stuff?

Thanks!

Keith

http://www.amazon.com/...mputer/dp/B000R5PK0I

We've been installing Ultegra compatible batteries and shrinking the Shimano circuit board down rather small so it fits in the smallest places. Although we need to update on the latest offerings, like a super clean "wireless" front end and remote shifters for both Dura Ace and Ultegra, here's the site: http://www.calfeedesign.com/...iber/di2-retrofit-2/

If I'm offered to get a 2-way switchbox on a SHIV TT SHIMANO DA Di2 bike (meaning only extentions will have shifting and not on bull bars) will I be able to proceed and adjust through that configuration the same things as you did (momentary switches on bull bars!) ?
Should I build and buy the bike and MOD it later (that I'm willing to do so!) ?? (purchase pending)

cheers, fantasic job you did , really, phenomenal indeed ....!!

Can you give more precise dimensions on the size of the modules? I am trying to determine if they will fit in the nose cone of my Felt DA (2010). Thanks.

Hello, sorry for the delayed response. If you are using DA Di2 then adding in momentary switches will be relatively easy. You would just wire the momentary switches as shown in the diagrams and splice into the harness going to the aerobar shifters. Depending on the switches used, this can be done for $10 or less.

Hello,

I will be able to give you a precise measurements tonight but they are small enough to fit into the aerobar extensions so I would think that it wouldnt be difficult to fit in the nose cone.

Thanks! I would really appreciate that - maybe I can get them in the bars instead - even better!

Fitting in the bars is highly dependent on what bars you have. The Ultegra black box would NOT fit into my zip or oval concept round bars. I think they will fit in the profile ones that are larger on the end. I fit mine in the shifters I made out of carbon fiber tubes with a 222mm inside diameter. I also had to shave down the black box a little to get it to fit.
I would check on the size of your bars first.

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JW (on the comback trail)

Have joined the forum just to ask this question. Do you think/know if this will work? I have Cervelo S5 with Ultegra Di2 STI shifters and have clipped-on aero bars and want to get shift buttons on aero extensions. Am thinking about splicing the Cateye remote buttons to an extra Shimano e-wire (cutting off one plug end) and plugging other end into second "input" on STI shifters. Thanks.

What you're describing won't work because an encoded signal needs to be sent to the input on the STI shifter. The cateye buttons by themselves won't do this.

One option would be to splice into the wires leading from the contact switches inside your brake levers; the wires are how the internal switches connect to the circuit that sends the encoded shift commands. This would be the cheapest option, but you'll need to open up your existing levers. You would use standard wires, not "Shimano e-wire." Space within the lever and routing of the additional wires to the aero bars may be difficult.

The second option would be to buy an new set of Ultegra Di2 brake levers, remove the circuit board, connect the Cateye buttons to those leads, and then connect the circuit board to the second input on the existing brake levers using a Shimano e-wire. In this setup, the new circuit board would send the encoded shift commands for the aero bar buttons and the cateye buttons would be the inputs. The existing levers would continue to use their own circuit board to send shift commands.

Here's a picture of the circuit "black box" and 3 wires that you will need to either splice into (option 1 - existing levers) or add (option 2 - dismantle new levers)

Hello,

Yes, it would work if you spliced into the wires between the black box and x/y (up/down) shift buttons on the levers. I've done this mod before for someone who wanted satellite shifters with the STIs....space is tight in the splice area but can be done with small wires and patience!

Before you do anything...Are you using Dura Ace Di2 or Ultegra Ui2? They function differently.

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JW (on the comback trail)

Thanks. I thought maybe I would be sending input to STI "black box" to be encoded by the circuit board there.

The biggest source of confusion for me is the battery charger. I'm building a 1x10 dura ace system and am using a hyperion battery.

What charger are you using?

Scott

I have finished building up my Scott Plasma 3 TT bike with Ultegra Di2 and I'm really pleased with the results. Many thanks to Locutus, YahamaFX1 and others for their support and advice. I managed to get a great deal on a new 2011 Plasma 3 and went with the Ultegra upgrade requiring only shifters and derailleurs. I'm still running my old Shimano 6601 crank with Q rings and works great. For the "find" of the project, I managed to locate some really sweet rocker momentary (mom on -off- mom on) switches that fit perfectly into the ends of my HED extensions. With this setup I needed only two switches, instead of four, to mount in the extensions and I don't need to press, but rather just rock the switches forward or back to switch gears. Also, the Plasma 3 has a neat little opening above the bottom bracket covered by a metal plate. I drilled out the plate and ran my FD wires and Control box through the modified hole and mounted the control box on top of the bottom bracket. I have an internal battery and full internal cable routing, with only minimal cables and wires exposed in the back of my HED corsair bars. I bought Cateye switches to give me shifting control on the horns, but have not yet installed them. For now I like the clean look of this setup and for the events I ride I think they will have little real benefit. I'll see how it goes and if I decide on them it may be my winter project.

I'll post some pics below.

Some more pics of my Scott Plasma 3 TT Project:

Dkblume: Your bike looks amazing, especially with the near invisible Di2 install. Those toggle switches look better than anything Shimano might come out with. Do you have any details on them (brand, part #, where to buy)?

Carlton, Thanks. Yes, I feel like I got pretty lucky with these switches. In my opinion they make the build. I did a lot of searching and think these are a great choice for this application. They are fully sealed and high quality. Not cheap ($50/ea), but ideal for the application. I bought them at Digikey.com. I did not use the mounting hardware, but simply rolled electrical tape around the threads, reversed the tape halfway so the "sticky" side was exposed and wedged them into the bar ends like bar end plugs. They come with the rubber "seal" rings shown below, but the fit is so good, I just put a little silicone on the bar ends to form a seal. The Switches are rated waterproof/dustproof and I soldered the wires and sealed the connections, so I am not concerned about exposure to the elements.

http://www.digikey.com/...t-detail/en/MTG72AD2





http://www.apem.com/pdf/MT.pdf

Hello Dkblume,
That is a beautiful assembly ;) I also own this bike and I'd like to make the same.
I have a question :
I would like to know how you do to pass the cable di 2 through the fork?
I know the scott plasma TT (only for Di2) have a hole in the fork to pass the cable but the Premium don't have it...
an other question :
have you removed the cable guide?
Please help me ;)
best regards

Thank you. I'd be happy to try to help you. I ran both the rear brake cable and the shifter wires through the fork. In my build, I used Ultegra shifter modules, which I mounted in the frame near the BB. As such, I ran six wires through the frame and fork. The key here is that you must drill two holes in the fork. One is in the rear of the fork and the other is just below, or even an extension of the existing front hole for the metal post that is used for the stem preload screw. For the hole at the rear of the fork, there is a white sticker/label which is where the hole should be drilled. You'll need to be careful in drilling these out, but the steerer tube is a much thicker steerer tube, so these holes can be made.If you send me your email, I can send you some photos taken by another slowtwitch member showing these hole drillings.

As others on this thread have described, I used a hobby knife to cut slits in the cable guides to run the rear brake cable and to run the Di2 cable to the rear derailleur.

Thanks a lot for your quickly answer...
I'd like to have some pictures showing this hole drilling.
You can send at hussard29@yahoo.fr

Hi locutus
Why is it required with the connection box from the sti 6770?
Can't i just solder the wires from the Sm-ew67?
Or is there any components which is needed for the can bus to indicate left and right shifters?

Hi All!

Here's how I did my setup.
http://rundtramp.blogspot.se/...egra-di2-remote.html
It is inspired by all previous posts, but slight variant.

Have a nice day!
/Richard, from Sweden

That's a very technical and beautiful build - enjoyed reading your blog.
Don't think I quite have the sodering skills, fortunately a true 'Ultegra TT Di2' is coming out after the show :)

Want to try and convert my Foil to Di2 so I'm soaking in all the tips I can find.

---

Trying to find that old 60 min / 40k tt split!
http://www.supergosam.blogspot.com

That may be the most "complete" bike I have ever seen on here!

Beautiful.

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__________________________

I tweet!

locutus,
thanks for sharing this diy.
i built my bike with cateyes and da brake lever/shifters based off your schematics.
my question is:
have you had any rear der shifting issues?
mine would shift back a few gears after i press the shift button and would sometimes not shift all the way to the largest cog.
i have a compact crank and 11-28 ultegra 6700.
any comments/suggestions?
has anyone else had this happen?
thanks

Now with the new 9070 DA setup, can we just plug in the sw-r671 into the-ew67?

http://www.tririg.com/articles.php?id=2012_08_Shimano_Ultegra_Di2_TT&mp=all

What is the latest news regarding Ultegra Di2 TT shifters to come out of interbike? Can we at least use the DA shifters on the newest Ultegra derailers?

The latest news is linked in the post previous to yours. Ultegra TT bar-end shifters available soon. Next year for brake levers.

Major thanks to loctus and the other contributors in this thread. This is fantastic stuff.

I am going to go ahead and add electronic shifting to my P2.

It would seem that the best approach for hiding the battery and other electronics is in the seat post, under the saddle and bike frame under the seat post.

My plan is to put regular, off the shelve, switches on aero bars and on pursuit bars and wire them all the way back to the seat post inside the frame. Then put the electronics, STI box, in the bike frame under the seat post. Purchase a replacement battery and put it in the seat post. Drill a hole in the seat post and put the battery mount box under the seat so that I can connect here to recharge the battery.

I really need to do this because I don't have any place in my aero bars to conceal electronics. I don't see any reason why this approach would not work but curious if you see any reason why I could not take this approach.

In more detail:

Purchase momentary switch and mount on aero bars and on vision brake levers. Wire inside aero bars and then into P2 frame in the top tube all switch wires (this would be my own wire). This would be longer runs then what you have to the STI box as my electronics will be under the seat post. Splice here into the STI box. Then wire from the STI box up to the battery mount SM-BMR1 which is under the saddle. Then wire from the SM-BMR1 to the battery that is in seat post. Then wire straight down from the saddle to the FD and to the RD.

This would seem to be very clean. First concern is the momentary switches being so far from the STI box. Second concern is I am not exactly sure of the wiring from battery mount, battery and FD and RD so not sure if that is too many wires through the seat post. Alternative would be to not have anything under the saddle but instead have everything in the seat post and bike frame. It would then require me to remove the seat to charge the battery. Which might not be that big of an issue.

Appreciate any input.

I don't get it. A lot of 2013 tt bike features Ultegra Di2 derailleurs with both DA Di2 brake levers and shifters. So, does it mean that a cable makes that possible ????

http://www.culturevelo.com/...loha_Ultegra_Di2.jpg

Yah, they call it the eTube system. The new DA Di2 is totally compatible with the Ultegra DI2.


So you could have a Ultegra rear derailleur, Ultegra front derailleur and DA TT shifters/brakes. They all plug into a junction box through their eTube wires.


Later on you could switch out your Ultegra rear derailleur with a DA one and the system would be just fine.

---

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast

Are all the new TT bikes with DA di2 and Ultegra Di2 TT buttons from shimano new versions of the tt buttons or is it the old ones?

Anything that works with integrate Di2 components is the new stuff. Ultegra is only available in the eTube system (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

---

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast

Locutus,
Thanks for this DIY.
I followed your schematics and used DA brake shifters with Cateye remotes on the aerobars.
Is there anything special I need to do with the wiring?
I soldered the Cateye wires directly o the STI and DA wires.
Everything works but the rear der is shifting erratically.
When I shift under load, it would shift then jump back a few cogs.
Is this because I didn't use the extra thick gage wires to connect the cateyes to the other wires?
Thanks

Hello, I would try making sure there are no shorts anywhere in the connections. Try re-soldering your joints....use shrink wrap tubing if possible. Let me know if you are still having problems afterwards. Also, post pictures of your final project!!

Ok thanks!
I will re-solder and post some pics.
What's the best way to do that?

Hello
I found this great thread while googling for more info on ultegra di2 which I am planning purchase soon. Just need a couple clarifications.
1. What is the type of plugs I need to make my own EW-SD50 wires? I have seen several plugs on market - just need to be sure that I get the correct plugs.
2. How should I solder the wires if I am not using the SM-JC41 junction box? Can I solder all four negatives together and then do the same with all four positives?

Thank you for your help.

I've seen several Ultegra Di2 bar end shifters for sale recently. They are about the same price as a pair of road brake levers, so there is no need to do the conversion now. Still waiting for Ultegra TT brake levers...

Carlton, I to am in the process of getting the Ultegra Di2 system put together for my Trek SC and just wanted to confirm with you that with the new Ultegra TT bar end shifters there is no need for getting the electronics out of the STI levers. It sounds like you are saying that the electronics for the canbus are already in these new shifters, could you please confirm that. thank you, Glen

You are correct. Note, from the other thread, that you will have to use a junction box JC40 (or splice the wires) between the front junction box EW67 and the R671 shifters. EW67 and R671 both terminate into female ends and won't directly plug together.

Exactly what I was going to say.

I've been holding out for a complete TT kit, but haven't seen one. I'll probably buy a road kit and sell the levers.

locutus, can you provide more detail on the seat post modification? It looks like you drilled a hole in the side, installed a Shimano grommet, and routed a wire out to under the seat? Is the battery inside the seat post or under the seat? Any additional details you can provide on how to do this and the battery used would be appreciated.

Hello every body.
First, sorry for my English, I'm French.
I hope someone can help me.

I try to connect Cateye remote on a Ultegra Di2...
I connect my remote to the blackbox. it doesn't work... But I try something else. I connect the black box directly to the remote, without using cat eye wire... It works...

Someone already had this problem? Are cateye's wire bad? any solution?
I can test with an other wire between the blackbox and the remote, but I'm afraid about the sealing of the button...

thanks for your help...

Maël

i had similar issues with the cateye wires. i found them so thin that it key to get enough contact and wire together and solder carefully.

---

JW (on the comback trail)

Is it required that the R671 bar-end shifters (or ST-6770 shifters) be routed through the SM-EW67 controller? Or can they be located on different "branches" and coupled together at the bottom bracket? As I understand the system, the EW67 does not intercept/interpret commands from the shifters and pass them to the front derailleur but rather the shift command can be sent directly from the shifters to the main controller in the front derailleur. But I'm not certain of this.

The reason I'm asking is because I would like to relocate the EW67 to under the seat and run as few wires as possible. So I would wire the shift buttons directly to a junction box (SM-JC41) near the bottom bracket area, locate the EW67 under the seat, and run a single cable from the EW67 down the seat post to the same junction box at the bottom bracket. The two "input wires" of the EW67 would not be used in this situation. (This would probably require 2 junction boxes near the BB.)

I thought those following this thread might be interested to know Shimano is now shipping several new Ultegra Di2 compatible parts. They make internal installations a bit cleaner/easier.

Shimano Dura Ace Di2 SM-BTR2 Internal Battery Pack - this is a round battery with an integrated charging control board. It fits inside most round seat posts. Snap rings are included for securing it into compatible hardware.


Shimano SM-EW90-B Junction - This front (A) junction straps under the stem and has 5 ports: 2 for brake-mount shifters and 2 for TT shifters, and a 5th to go to the B Junction. There is also a charging port for the internal battery. It includes ANT+ capability to broadcast gear selection and battery status to a compatible device (only the Shimano FlightDeck computer at this point; hopefully Garmin will add support)


Shimano SM-EW90-A Junction - This is a smaller version of the front (A) junction that has only 3 ports and no ANT+. This would be used with only 1 set of shifters, or with TT shifters daisy-chained into the open port on the brake lever shifters. It also has the charging port.
http://imgur.com/Tg0nEiM

Shimano Dura Ace Di2 SM-BCR2 Charger for SM-BTR2 - this charger has a USB plug on the input side. The output plug connects to a port behind a flap on the front A junction. This only charges the new internal battery, not the older external battery as it doesn't include the charging control circuity.
http://imgur.com/soA25af

I would also be interested to know how you extended the battery wire to the top of the seat post...is this a Shimano wire or did you use some other type of wire?

I found out that the battery was mounted inside the seatpost in the battery mount adapter was attached to the seat. This was done as opposed to cutting down the battery mount. So there are 2 wires, the standard Shimano wire from the junction to the battery mount, and a second custom wire running back from the mount to the third-party battery in the seatpost.

Any idea where you can buy these?

I ordered the battery, charger, and 5-port junction from http://www.bike24.net/ in Germany and they have shipped. Prices were below MSRP. TwoHubs.com has the battery, charger, and 3-port junction in stock; prices weren't as favorable.

great, thanks for the heads up!

I was able to get a partial set of Ultegra Di2 last summer and planned to put it on my road bike (but haven't done so yet). I pretty much have shifters (road), the derailleurs and the battery. My plan was to order the cables, the front junction, the rear junction and the battery mount. Now I am thinking about putting this on my tri bike instead. I know I need the new TT shifters (SW-R671). If I buy the SM-EW90 junction (either one), do I still need the 'road' front junction (SM-EW67-A-E)? Or does this new front TT junction replace the 'road' one?

Also, it seems like the TT shifters all say '11 speed' when I see them for sale online. I have a 10spd rear derailleur (and everything I own is 10spd, so I'm not planning on switching). It appears as if there is a way to switch between 11spd and 10spd via some kind of software adjustment....do I need to buy the 'computer' that Shimano has for sale in order to do this?

All 3 of the front junctions are interchangable. The 2 new ones are "Dura ace" but work with Ultegra.

Same for the shifters: they work with either. They just send up/down shift commands; the deraileur determines the number of available gears.

Thanks that is helpful. I interpret to mean that you can harvess the little black boxes out of the Ultegra Di2 shifters (6770 STI) and do a Dura Ace 9070 setup. If you wanted to you could then use Dura Ace 7970 shifters with 9070. Not sure why you would want to.

Sure would be nice if Shimano would give us a cheaper solution to get from Momentary switches to CanBus.

The older 4-wire Dura-Ace 7970 is not cross-compabile. Ultegra 7970 and Dura-ace 9070 2-wire (e-wire) are interchangeable.

Realize they are not compatible off the shelve. But as this is a DIY thread if you harvest the little black boxes out of the 6770 STI you can make the 7000 series dura ace shifters work. Not sure if you would want to do that. Personally, for this go around I am using DA 7000 series versus the first time I used Ultegra. BTW, the DA 7000 Di2 is on pretty significant sale as they move to the new generation. I was able to purchase everything for a less than Ultegra.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new TT bike. I want Ultegra Di2 TT, but as I understand it, the pursuit shifting isn't available.

So, how challenging would it be to order the Ultegra Di2 setup and install the electronic pursuit shifters once they become available?

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

I wonder about using the remote climbing buttons, SW R600, on the base bar.

If you get the 5 hole junction box, I think it's just a matter of plugging in the second set of shifters once they become more readily available. If you get the three holer, I think you'd have to swap out the junction box as well....but I think it will be pretty simple to do either way.

Why not Dura Ace 7970 di2 instead of Ultegra?

IMHO, it looks better, performs as well if not better, more easily use a different battery, shifters, etc. Depending on components the cost is close depending on where you buy from. You can actually do 7970 for less than Ultegra if using only FD, RD, front harness. Only negative to DA is the thickness of the wires and possibly the level of waterproofing.

You could either get 2 of the lower junctions to mate cables for the areo shifters, brake shifters, and upper controller... or replace the upper controller with the new 5-port version.

Great thread.

I'm a hobbyist electronics guy and been installing car audio systems since. So basically, the only needed parts are the RD, FD, Mount and Battery, right? Then use hook-up wires and push-button switches. Sounds like a great project!

You need a "brain" at each end point of the system. You can not wire push button switches into the system without using donor electronics from a set of shifters or shimano button set. There isn't much of a way to do it homestyle cheap unless you are a electrosavant.

Thanks, got it. I noticed after reading the posts here and the other threads. I thought it was as simple as giving some voltage to the derailleurs and they instantly move.

Will search for the 7970. I think they are "simpler" in schematics than the Ultegra di2

Plus if shop around 7970 can be purchased at a competitive price as Ultegra if not cheaper.

I have done one bike Ultegra around 6 months ago and doing a 7970 bike now.

First post here, and first dabble with Di2, so please excuse any ignorance on my part.

I bought a complete Ultegra Di2 upgrade groupset, with the intention of hacking the shifters as per the original post and adding additional Cateye switches onto my base bars. I bought the SW-R671 aero switches to piggy-back onto the internals of the hacked-up levers, but then when I looked carefully at a photo of the complete TT groupset, it appeared as though maybe I didn't need to hack up my shifters at all.



I have subsequently ordered a SM-EW90-A as seen in the top right of the photo above as the gender of the cables was wrong for connecting to the SM-EW67A-E which is for the normal shifters. I am still waiting for a couple of connectors, so haven't tested anything yet, but wanted to pick the collective brains here.

I did a quick dis-assemble of my aero levers, which I am planning to piggy-back some extra wires onto for remote switches, but the internals are pretty tiny!


complete unit


with the cover removed


the micro-switches


Haribo for scale

I am assuming that there must be a CANBUS controller in that tiny little unit or is the controller actually in the SM-EW90-A? Has anyone else taken one apart and been faced with tiny surface-mount components, or accidentally destroyed the unit while opening it up?

Cheers, Rich

If you just want to add shift switches to your base bars, my guess is that, based on the diagram posted, you only have to splice the wire between the R671 and the front junction box: grey (common), yellow (up), purple (down). As an alternative, you could also get that beautiful TT brake lever with shift switches.

I might go this route as somebody here is selling a TT Di2 upgrade kit for about $1000 which already includes the R-671 aero switches, maybe $900 without the mechanical brake lever included. But since the included front junction box is the 3-port, might as well do the splice and install some switches near the brake lever.

The cable between the aero switches and the junction box is only 2 wire, so much already have an encoded signal, so cannot be spliced with a momentary action switch, only something else which already has a CANBUS signal.

The junction box is also available in a 5 port version: SM-EW90-B

3 port version: SM-EW90-A

I'm not particularly keen on the Shimano base levers with switches built in, they're rather bulky, not particularly light, €350, and I already have some very nice carbon levers which I want to use.

Just wondering if anyone had already opened up the aero switches to hack.

Cheers, Rich

Oh okey, my bad. How about the SW-R600 (or cannibalize this so you can use your cateye basebar switches), though I guess you have to use the 5-port switch and I dont know if the connectors would mate. :-)

[img]http://www.excelsports.com/...imbing%20Shifter.jpg[/img]

Those bar-top switches are the old 4-wire Dura Ace system which was much easier to hack, not the new CANBUS system, so that wouldn't move me any further forward.

Just wondered what I will face inside my aero switches, as if I can avoid cannibalising my drop-bar shifters so that they can go on another bike intact I would like to do so.


Cheers, Rich

Here are some very detailed instructions for soldering remote switches onto the Ultegra Di2 shifter circuit boards:
http://rundtramp.blogspot.se/...egra-di2-remote.html

Given the complexity of the modification, my personal opinion is that you'd be better off mounting a climbing shifter or disassembled TT shifter near the right brake lever.

Ah, that's spot on, just what I was looking for!

Many thanks, Rich

Hi,
I just finished to receive all my ultegra di2 components (including the 5 ports junction box).


Unfortunately, when I connect everything, it won't powered up. Is there any battery inside the SM-EW90-B that I need to charge? What would be the charger ref then?


thanks for the help, you all have been very helpful already :)

I have the same setup. I connect the bar-end shifters to the 5-port junction, to an internal B junction, and on to the internal SM-BTR2 Battery, front derailleur, and real derailleur. The battery had a low charge, but everything shifted. I fully charged the battery by attaching the i2 SM-BCR2 Charger to the side of the 5-port junction.

That's my setup right now.



For now, I'm still missing the ST-9071. All I know is all is properly connected but it's not powering up. My first guess would be the issue is coming from the SM-EW90-B but I don't know what and how to confirm...

You should be able to charge the battery to test if it works. Also check all of the connections and make sure they are completely snapped.

The battery? SM-BTR1 ? yes, fully charger and verified with a voltmeter.
Is there a battery in the SM-EW90-B? If so, how can I charge it?

All the connections have been verified and inserted until the "click" sound.

Thanks

It sounds like you've verified everything properly. There is no battery in the upper junction. Your best bet would be to ise the PC software and adapter to troubleshoot. Unfortunately, it's pretty expensive. Maybe calling Shimano would help? I'm out of ideas...

FYI ST 9071 TT is now available in the aftermarket.
Mine are waiting for me at the post office.
Finally....

Question to anyone listening....When fishing harness wires through are you doing so with connectors attached or are you cutting them off and re-splicing?

Thanks

footwerx,

Can you tell us where the TT brakes/shifters are available? The on line shops I visit still show as Mid March arrival.

Japan at least: http://www.alexscycle.com/...ontrol-shifters.html

I'll wait until they are available in EU so I don't have to pay 100 euros extra for customs.

I did all of mine with the connectors attached. The connectors (and internal wires) are so small that I can't imagine a situation where it would make sense to splice.

• drill a 15/64-inch (6mm) hole
• tape the cable to a piece of brake cable and run it through
  
• use the SM GM01 6mm round grommet

It looks like they are in stock here (Germany): http://r2-bike.com/...ebel-Zeitfahrhebel_1

Thanks for the tip, placed the order since they replied to me that they can ship in 1-3 days.

Do the ST-9071 come with E-tube cables to connect to the junction box or do these need to be purchased separately. Thanks!

-Pete

---

"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

ST-9071 and SW-9071 have fixed E-tube cables that are 600 mm long.

ST-9071 and SW-9071 shipped from r2-bike.de yesterday. :)

BTW, does anyone know of a shop that has the SM-EW90-B in stock?


Thanks!

---

"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

that's the 5 port one right?
mine arrived from http://www.bikecomponents.de 2 weeks back

I'm still waiting on mine. Can you tell me does it have the charging port for on board charging?? Will that work for both the internal or external battery??

It has the charging port and only works with the built-in battery (which includes the charge monitoring circuitry.)

I have just received my junction box (SM-JC40) and top 3 port connector (SM-EW90-A) and wired the whole system up with my SW-R671 bar-end shifters, and nothing happened.

I then substituted the 3 port connector and bar-end shifters with the standard SM-EW67 and normal drop-bar Ultegra STI units, and everything worked fine. Plugging the bar-end shifters into the satellite ports and they worked fine.

No combinations using the 3 port SM-EW90 connector resulted in any action at all.

Any thoughts?

Cheers, Rich

Have you updated the firmware?

No firmware updates - one assumes I need the USB connector to do so? Is this a common scenario?

Seems strange that one configuration works fine out of the box, swap one connector and it does nothing....

Cheers, Rich

I think you may need the 5-port connector. According to the Shimano diagrams, the R-671’s do not connect to the ST-9070.

http://dev2.infocaster.net/...20cockpit%20area.pdf

Well, firstly I'm not using the ST-9070 levers, I'm going to hack my own, but at this stage that isn't relevant.

Below is how I plugged everything together and it worked fine, both from the STI units and the aero shifters (hopefully the images are all visible)



When I substituted the SM-EW67A-E for the SM-EW90-A and just the aero shifters, nothing worked at all, not even a battery light on the 3-port junction box



As far as I'm aware I'm using all of the same shifting components as the complete groupset photo below:



Any assistance would be appreciated, and if I can avoid spending €163 on a PC interface or €115 on a 5-port junction when I'll only be using 3 ports that would be great!

Cheers, Rich

Have you solved the ew90b problem? My rig is configured identically to yours and has been working successfully with the 3 port junction box (ew90a) Now that I have finally received the brake shifters and replaced the 3 port with the 5 port (ew90b), I can't get it to work. Basically the ew90b doesn't power up?

Same problem here and the local Shimano rep confirmed that a firmware update is necessary.

Thanks for the info, looks like I'll have to buy a PC interface then, as I doubt many shops in India have one!

Just another quick query, do I need a spare port to plug the interface into, as that would mean swapping to the 5-port junction, or can individual components be flashed with new firmware in isolation?

Cheers, Rich

The Shimano rep said that you can flash the components in isolation. But you must plug the interface into a female port.

Same problem here. Finally got the SM-EW90-B and nothing works. Totally bummed. I have the internal battery coming as well as the charger which also doubles as an interface from what I have been told. So I hope that a firmware update is all I need to get the 5 port junction box to work.


Anyone know of North American supply of the brake/shifters? Have not found any in stock on the sites I checked last week.

Sorry to hear the 5-port junction isn't working for you. I'm not sure why it's working fine for me. I have only the SW-R671 bar-end shifters attached and I'm using the internal battery. I hope you get it fixed soon. I ordered the Di2 PC Adapter to update the firmware and switch the upshift/downshift buttons, but it hasn't arrived yet.

I haven't found the brake/shifters anywhere in North America yet.

Why did you do that? The SM-BCR2 charger for the internal battery is a PC interface for updating the firmware and making changes to the components.

---

Greetings from the German Wine Route,
Roland

That's hilarious - I had no idea! I wondered how I missed something so obvious, but the box, instructions, and label on the SM-BCR2 all say "battery charger" and make no mention of any additional functionality.

Anyway, I downloaded the Shimano Etube Project software and connected the SM-BCR2. I was then able to update the firmware, switch the upshift and downshift buttons, and enabled multi-shift. The only thing the SM-BCR2 can't do is troubleshooting; the SM-PCE1 is required for that. But I don't think that feature would be needed very often; the problems people here are having are firmware related. FYI, here's the firmware versions that shipped with my setup:

Well, to be completely fair to Shimano, they do say it in the User's Manual. See the segments "Features" (top of the right half) and "Downloading application" (bottom of the right half).

http://si.shimano.com/...7FJ0A-000-00-ENG.pdf


Why they don't advertise this feature more strongly, is beyond me. Maybe to push sales of the SM-PCE1?

---

Greetings from the German Wine Route,
Roland

awesome！

That is very useful to know, especially as it's half the price of the PC interface unit.

Cheers, Rich

I just got my SM-EW90-B 5-port junction box from Europe. I upgraded to the latest firmware. I now have a functional Ultegra Di2 TT system with ST-9071 shifters/levers and SW-R671 shifters. I'll post photos when I can. Pretty cool!

-Pete

---

"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

Can I use this SM-BCR2 to charge my old type of battery also?

This type: http://img.artscyclery.com/product/SHUI2BTRY-1.jpg

No, the old type of battery does not have the charging circuits integrated in to it.

Updated the firmware and RD-6770 now works with SW-9071, ST-9071 and multi-shift. The FD-6770's braze-on bolt inserts came loose during installation and the derailleur is out to Shimano for warranty.

After this firmware update, when the RD-6770 RD is paired with the ST-9071, does the RD shift properly on an 11-speed cassette or on a 10-speed cassette?

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

10-speed CS-6700 11-23 on a FFWD disc wheel.

You would need the new Dura-Ace Di2 RD-9070 for 11 speed compatibility.

Does anyone know if the reverse is possible? Can you use 6770 shifters with 9070 RD for 10-speed action? I really don't care to upgrade to 11-speed at this time but really like the looks and weight of the 9070 RD compared to the 6770 RD.

I also wonder about this. What parts decide 10speed ore 11speed ? ?

The rear derailleur only.

so would 6770 shifters work the 11-speed 9070 derailerus?

EDIT: Yes, both are e-tube and are cross-compatible.

Those are both e-tube systems...

9070 is the new DA not 7970.

To answer your question if I remember correctly

If you have a 6770 system (Ultegra Di2) and you install a 9070 RD, (technically Shimano would suggest a 9070 FD as well), 11spd chain, 11spd cassette, and compatible wheels you would have an 11spd system. The shifters, once plugged into the RD (which contains the important stuff) think it's an 11spd system.

Yes, this is correct.

Carlton, James...Thanks

Hi Carlton,

Are the recently released sw-r610 11 sp sprint shifters compatible with Ui2 10 speed? I want to add sprint shifters to my setup but cant seem to confirm this info. I'm assuming that once you plug these sprint shifters they would automatically just function as an extension of the rest of the system which is 10 speed, what are your thoughts? I appreciate any advice on this matter:)

---

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

Everything except the sprint shifters are cross-compatible between Ultegra and the new Dura-Ace Di2. You may need to update the the firmware though...

For whatever reason, the sprint shifters work with Dura-Ace 9070 only. The climbing shifters work with both.

Ok, thanks for the update. I'll order them and update the firmware.

---

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

I've heard that the sprint shifters fit into a special port on the Dura-Ace STI levers and that port is missing in the Ultegra version.

Is there anyway to confirm what you heard? Do you know a shimano rep or someone in the know?

---

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

i wondering if the following setups would work -

1) DIY or third-party charger
a) Cable Junction SM-EW67-A-E
b) Internal Battery SM-BTR2
c) Charger with DIY connector to plug into EW-SD50 cable
2) SM-BCR2 Charger
a) Cable Junction SM-EW67-A-E
b) Internal Battery SM-BTR2
c) SM-BCR2 Charger, with DIY adapter to plug into EW-SD50 cable

With setup 1, the cost is reduced by not using 1 x SM-EW90-A junction, 2 x additional EW-SD50 and 1 x SM-BCR2 Charger (substitute with 8.4V, 0.4A charger).
With setup 2, the cost is reduced by not using 1 x SM-EW90-A junction, 2 x additional EW-SD50. The OEM charger is used for firmware updates.

Both setups are based on the assumption that the SM-EW90-A junction does not have any circuitry. Besides cost saving, the advantage of this approach is no hacking to the OEM parts is required.

I asked the exact same question of our Shimano tec rep at a recent tour. Wanted to use the sprint shifters for customers with Cervelo P5s with hydraulic brakes. Unfortunately, the new e-tube sprint shifter will only work in the 3rd port of the 9070 STI lever.

But I also pitched the question of the tri bike setup where replacing the brake levers with 9071 is not an option ... still awaiting a response

why not buy this?
http://www.ebay.com/...id=p3984.m1555.l2649

Looks interesting, but I'm not sure if the price is low enough to outweigh the "factory-ness" of the Shimano internal battery solution. Regardless, good luck with the new product.