Some of the closest and fastest passes I've had by cars have been cop cars. This pisses me off to no end.

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http://www.facebook.com/ReconFoundationTeam
http://www.facebook.com/MarineReconFoundation
http://www.reconfoundation.org

I was clipped by a cop car's side mirror last year. He didn't stop.

yep. i was once almost cleaned out by a motorcycle cop who pulled an illegal u-turn.

i've had a cop yell at me to get off the road and stop holding up traffic, when i was legally riding with traffic!

this is sad.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8513728?nclick_check=1

More info in that link - says that the cops' car was going north, crossed the double yellow line and hit the cyclists who were heading south. Amazing. How tragic.

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http://thethighmasterroutetokona.blogspot.com

Yes, I just posted in Jonas' thread. My friend and teammate was killed. I have been crying most of the day.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

so sorry to hear it!





(tears)

This was from a race he won last week:



He took 4th in the crit yesterday. I had no idea it was the last time I'd ever see him. He was a genuinely nice guy.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

It doesn't look all that narrow. How could they guy have crossed that far over in a road of that width. Am I missing something?

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

I doubt he's taking it as hard as those of us who knew Matt and Kristy are.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Early reposrt are that he fell asleep. I have no official confirmation of that. But that's what we were told.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Un-fucking-believable. I hope he gets his life turned upside down, much like he has done to everyone involved in this tragic accident. Sorry about your loss.

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http://www.facebook.com/ReconFoundationTeam
http://www.facebook.com/MarineReconFoundation
http://www.reconfoundation.org

I've ridden that stretch of road hundreds of times as it is just a few miles from the store and my house too. There's a pretty good shoulder but I could see an accident happen there depending on the circumstances and speed involved.

Very sad.

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-Darrell

Thanks. I'm off to pick up cathy and head to the beach to meet up with the rest of our team. We'll all cry together for awhile.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

That's terrible. Commiserations.

I don't know if it's the nice weather or something else but the driving down here today has been truly attrocious, far worse than usual. I had to spend half my ride covering the brakes. You'd hope for (although maybe not expect) better from the cops though.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

Thats horrible. Our thoughts and prayers ar with you and their families.

Hi,

I am so sorry, there are no words to fix this pointless tragedy.

Tom

That's awful! My condolences to the victims, their families, friends, and teammates.

I've ridden on Stevens Canyon many times when visiting my parents out in the bay area. Although windy, the road is very wide, it is well marked and the traffic is generally pretty light. I can't imagine how this could possibly happen in broad daylight.

The forth rider, a team mate of mine, said that the officer fell asleep while driving.

They need to make an example out of him, and every other driver who kills. I don't care about the whole "live with it for the rest of their lives" arguement. I'm sick of reading sad stories like this. Change needs to happen before others pay for it with their lives.

I'm deeply sorry for everyone's losses, and hope that they may be a catalyst for change.

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"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

The Dude Abides...

Because the third injured riders name was not released I took it out.

From the fourth rider:

All,
Just a few words to let everyone know how I am doing. I am Ok
physically, but feel quite messed up in the head. Words cannot
describe the accident scene, I thought that I was in a nightmare the
whole time. This is what happened from my side - we were a team of
four, Matt, Kristy, ******** and myself were heading towards the
Stevens Creek reservoir as a team. The other 3 put around 20 seconds
on me before the last stretch to the reservoir. When I took the
corner, it was a horror scene. The sheriff officer got out of his car
and was pacing up and down not quite knowing what to do. I could see
that Matt was fatally hit and ********* was hurt, but, concious and
yelling in pain. Kristy was in bad shape, I stayed with her and
encouraged her to keep breathing until the paramedics took over.
There was another cyclist on scene who happened to be a doctor - when
he asked the cop what hapenned, he said, "I must have dozed off...".
Thank you all for the support. I feel like we should get together as a
team to talk about this, it would definitely help me.

I am so sorry. I wish there was something I could do to help those left behind to cope with their pain and loss.

Linda

The problem with improving road conditions for cyclists (3-foot laws, etc.) is that they always get cut because car drivers are all, "OMG, don't inconvenience me!"

Such a sad story, this one. Best wishes to the families of those involved.

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--
"Rock and roll, dude." -- Dave Z., on winning TTs in all 3 Grand Tours.

Thanks for forwarding that.
I can't imagine how much it would screw with your head, coming up upon your teammates/friends like that.

Very sad.
-Charles

Police are the second worst driver in cars. Their children are worse because they were taught by them.

My father is a driving instructor and he has had to retain police children for about double the hours a normal child takes to learn to drive a car. Police are taught to drive fast and corner and crash not to drive like real people. When they teach their children to drive they usually crash and break most laws.

I was hit by a NYS Trooper while riding a bike when I was 16 and he didn't even stop.

I can not agree more, "I must have dozed off" WTF?!?! If I was a family member of one of the cyclists killed I would be hunting this S.O.B. down. F him.

---

http://www.facebook.com/ReconFoundationTeam
http://www.facebook.com/MarineReconFoundation
http://www.reconfoundation.org

Happened to me when I was 16

this couldn't be further from the truth.........police are trained to be far better drivers than anyone on the road, and they teach their children to do the same, because they see deadly accidents every day and know what can happen (first hand knowledge here). unfortunately it's just as easy for them or an EMT or firefighter etc to fall asleep etc as anyone else. very sad regardless of reason, but one of those very unfortunate things

And if someone "dozed off" and killed the cop, there would be a capital murder trail for the cop killer.

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"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

The Dude Abides...

In the reports I've read the officer was very distraught over what happened. We've all had bad experiences with drivers, but that doesn't make every driver our enemy, and certainly not every cop. I've known more than a few who have helped out stranded cyclists.

Let's direct our thoughts and prayers to everyone involved, and stop the mob mentality.

This is just plain awful. Condolence to those of you connected with this group.

I agree with Raul!

Like others have said, this is truly tragic, prayers go out to the family and freinds.

I hate to agree with police bashing but on my ride today the two cars that came the closest to me were both police officers. I am not sure if its the amount of time the spend behind the wheel or something else, but they get way too close comfort.

It will not bring the riders back, but I hope the driver that killed the innocent people does not receive any preferential treatment because they are cops. Time will tell.

Peace,
RF

My condolences to Katy and other friends and family.

I find it interesting that some of the immediate reactions are "Hunt him down", "F him", "Capital murder".

It was an accident. Yes, it was possibly avoidable, and I'm sure the families have recourse in the civil courts if they wish to pursue it. But it was an ACCIDENT, as in he didn't do it on purpose.

I imagine he feels horrible, killing two and injuring a third. He has to live with the fact that a moment of carelessness ruined several lives.

Hunting him down, or even suggesting it is just juvenile.

John

---

---

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

My heart goes out to you and all those affected by this.

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__________________
JP

my twitter feed

This cop made a mistake, maybe even a terrible error in judgement being behind the wheel in the first place, but cops basically put their lives on the line every single day on the job. Try walking up to the window of a speeding car you just pulled over never knowing if this will be the: dope dealer; escaped felon, cracked out druggie who will point a sawed off out the window and blow you away. And let's not even talk about the domestic situations they deal with each day....

I have never had a police car come to close or harass me in any way while I was riding nor do I know anyone who has experienced that. I'm sure that many of the incidents are unintentional and those that are not are few and far between.

That said, this is a tragic event and my heart goes out to those friends and families of these cyclists. You are in my prayers...

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Nor do I use punctuation in the way a child sprinkles glitter over a ribbon of glue on construction paper - Trash Talk

While this is HORRIBLE and just a tragic ACCIDENT. People need to really get off of the "cop" aspect. A driver fell asleap at the wheel, for that he will have remorse for the rest of his life. We cant bring our friends back from situations like this as much as we would like. This cop fell asleap or was tired. Does that give him a pass? No. Would it change peoples viewpoints if this cop was on his way home from a 20 hour shift saving peoples lives? Would you see it diffrent if the cop had fallen asleap and hit a few pedestrians or homeless people? The "I would get him" aspect of some of these posts is really too far over the top.


I hope the best for the families of the cyclist as well as that of the Police Officer involved.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

"Police are taught to drive fast and corner and crash".

As a cyclist and an officer, I can say that you are incorrect. This is a horrible accident that will change the lives of all parties involved, their friends, families and coworkers for the worse. I have driven a police car while fatigued and have almost been hit by a car while cycling.

I am fortunate that neither have happen to me, from a police stand point, that has to be the worst feeling in the world. And I can't even fathom what the victims families must be going through.

A horrible incident all around.

---

fka: bassman

After the swim, I'm a fish outta water.

No no...dont cops just speed everywhere and do the PIT manuver all day?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Katy
Sorry about your friend....Tragic for all involved.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Wow. I'm so sorry for you and your teammates and everyone who knew and loved these people; you all have my deepest sympathy.

I started reading the story without expecting it to have hit so close to the people here, but then I saw the words "triathlete" and "Clas" and I felt my stomach turn.

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__________
there was no one chasing us... distance is its own reward.

An officer was murdered in one bay area town and was not tried for a capital murder. Life in prison is all he got.

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fka: bassman

After the swim, I'm a fish outta water.

Kristy with Clas:



Condolences to all the families and friends on this terrible tragedy.

Matt was teasing me just yesterday about my "silly triathlete shoes" with the elastic laces, but the fact is, Matt was an Ironman finisher himself. Those silly shoes of mine are filled with sand right now from the beach where our team gathered to tell Matt stories, laugh and cry. Our team is going to join Kristy's team for a memorial ride soon.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

:-) I wish you the best, so so sorry for your loss (-:

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I'm not saying we need to treat him any different than anyone else because he's a cop. Hell, I love cops, except that one in college that time with the keg, but that's a different story altogether.

My point is, i am SICK of hearing about cyclists and runners behind killed by motorists, and everyone talking this crap about the remorse the driver has to live with being their punishment. I don't care who is behind the wheel, a cop, a high school kid, or my freaking grandma, they need to pay. A live is lost, and being sorry and remorseful just doesn't cut it in my book, no matter who you are.

That said, while cops are mostly the "valiant do no harm" types, they are also human. And in my former life as a Phish tour kid, I ran into more bad ones than good. Not saying that this guy was a bad cop, just that people are human, and act different ways in different situations, no matter what they wear to work.

Rest in peace to those who lost their lives, and may their families find some peace as well. As for the driver...

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"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

The Dude Abides...

I don't think that the "cops are good drivers" v. "cops are bad drivers" is really at issue here.
"cops" didn't kill the 2 cylists (thread title notwithstanding). One person did. Yes, that person was a cop (although I get the different CA titles confused, cop v. CHP v. sheriff's deputy, the last being what this guy was).

It sounds a lot like he *chose* to drive when he shouldn't have, if he did in fact "doze off." That's negligence, not an 'accident.'

This is someone being negligent and falling asleep. That is bad. It is no different than if a teenager or a mom or a dad or a judge did it.

People largely do not pay a steep price for killing people in an accident. yes, we all get riled up when the victim is a cyclist, but every day people are killed when a driver does not pay attention. Unless they are drunk, they usually do not pay a steep price (and that was not always the case). The reason for this is human nature. A judge or a jury can put themselves in that situation very easy in their imagination, so they do not punish much. Most people can relate to taking their eyes of the wheel for a bit, going through a yellow then red light, and even starting to nod off. Most people do not do these often, but they have all probably done it. As such, they are not going to toss the book at the person.

I wish this were not the case and I am not supporting it. Just explaining it IMHO.

And if someone "dozed off" and killed the cop, there would be a capital murder trail for the cop killer.

I doubt that.

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Steve Perkins

There's an all too predictable war of words going on on SFgate right now with half the posters claiming that all cyclists should be run off the roads and the other half charging that all cops are scumbag murderers.

Sad. Very sad.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I am sorry for your loss. It is a senseless tragedy. You and your team will be in my prayers. Every spring I lead a prayer service for my bike team in which we remember riders who have been killed. There names will be added to that service... If a memorial of some sorts starts please post it.
Mitch

Thank you Mitch.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Katy - Sorry about your loss - very tragic.

I'm sitting at my desk, going through the flood of emails, crying like a baby. Thanks to all who have offered sympathy. Our team appreciates all the thoughts.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Katy

This is just a horrible loss from a tragic accident. Please know that your friends family and friends will be in our prayers.

db

As someone who lost a coworker, club member, and friend in a cycling accident a few years ago, I can say that if this police officer has a soul, he is truly paying for it. I called the woman who struck my friend, and as soon as I identified myself on the phone, she just broke down. There were victims on both sides - my friend and the wife and 2 kids he left behind, but also a victim was the woman who hit him. I could tell talking to her how shaken up she was and how she would do anything to have avoided the situation. I'm reminded of his life every weekend training ride as we pass the cross at the side of the road bearing his name.

It's a tragic situation, and one that takes time to heal from. Condolences to all who knew the victims. Keep their families in your thoughts as well as the officer, who I'm sure is suffering a great deal as well.

NTM/CLM/Katy

Very sorry for your loss and my prayers this morning go out to you all and the family, friends and teammates of these three.

You all are doing the right things but it's still gonna be hard. One minute you're talking to someone and the next they are just--gone?

Grieve for them and cherish their memories.

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Steve

I called the woman who struck my friend, and as soon as I identified myself on the phone, she just broke down.

Why did you call her?

Because I'm a compassionate person and the club realized there were multiple victims. We wanted to extend to her any emotional support she needed. It was not a witch hunt call but rather, a "we are here if you need us" call. It was an accident. Yes you can be upset about it, but it was an accident.

Thats very magnanimous. Unfortunately, it's not the first reaction most people would have, but very human and I am sure appreciated.

when i first read about and then posted the breaking news, i was sad hearing about this tragedy. i didn't know anyone involved. but after posts by katy and others that added more details, the pics, getting to know the riders, it becomes more and more excruciatingly heartbreaking....

I'm so sorry for your loss.
This is tragic for the whole cycling community.
My condolences to all impacted by this tragedy.

While I don't want to contribute to politicizing Matt's death, I disagree with a couple of your points.\

The fact that he is a law enforcement officer is almost irrelevent. It is not irrelevent, he was working- on duty, paid by us to protect us. there is nothing so far to indicate that he did anything wreckless. He crossed the center line and hit them head on. He said "I must have dozed off". That is definitely wreckless. I'm not going to argue this further, I'm too upset about losing a teammate and friend.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

hi, deepest sympathies for the victims, families & friends...

This is really sad. I didn't know Kristy Gough personally but probably raced with her several times in the local triathlons here. I remember a few years back always seeing her name as a top finisher in the results, she was one age group up from me. As soon as I saw her name in the reports I felt my stomach turn. I've biked a few times in that particular area the accident occurred and from what I remember there is a pretty wide shoulder.

rest in peace.

Jocelyn

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...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar

I'm not looking to argue so don't take it that way. I think what he did was careless, not proven to be wreckless as of yet. I consider that to be an important difference. Dozing off is not necessarily a wreckless act. Driving drunk is wreckless, driving at a considerably high rate of speed can be wreckless.

While it may be more shocking that it is a police car involved it doesn't make the situation that much different than if it was a civilian, just slightly more newsworthy. Police officers are human like the rest of us and no amount of trianing can prevent someone from making an error or having a lapse in judgement.

That's right - you can't fix stupid. My brother has fallen asleep behind the wheel twice in his life, luckily never injuring anyone but himself and his car. For the life of me I cannot understand what circumstances would cause him to continue driving with full knowledge that his body was calling for sleep.

I wonder did daylight savings have anything to do with this? Was the guy extra tired after getting up an hour early to start his shift?

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

The injured rider, a 20 year-old continental pro from Germany, is doing ok at the hospital with a broken arm and leg.
He is doing okay physically. Broken arm and broken leg. He didn't know about either Kristy or Matt and when I told him he was understandably VERY shaken up. The guy is a total mental wreck right now. He is trying to come to grips with being the only survivor from the accident, compounded by the fact that he is far from home and only 20 years old.

"If a pilot showed up without proper rest before the flight they had the option of deciding not to fly."
-----------------------------

if the flying public knew how fatigued many airline pilots were back when I was flying, they would be justifiably fearful. This was especially true of smaller, "commuter" aircraft which operate under different rest rules than larger aircraft. While it has always been the pilot's decision, there has always been a strong disincentive to "NOT call in fatigued".

To get back on topic: I know that road VERY well and have ridden there weekly for years. I have a hard time believing someone could "doze off" while driving on that winding road. Something is not quite right with the deputy's alleged statement to that effect.

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

i don't think it matters when he started his shift, accidents still happen, and the fact that he is a policeman is totally irrelevant. would this be any better if he had been a lawyer, trash man, etc? would this be better if it was a guy out walking instead of a cyclist? he may have been up all night with his newborn kid, sleeping on the couch after an argument with the wife, whatever. point is it still happens. no one thinks they're going to fall asleep at the wheel until it happens. accidents happen all the time, the most unfortunate part is that it's always easy to see what you should have done in hindsight. and of course it's always very tragic, and really sucks that you can't take it back

I don't want to get too involved in this, but I agree. I'm not trying to say that the fact that he is an officer make any difference to what happened. I'm only hoping that people see that any of us could have been at either end of this incident, accidents happen but all off us are responsible for using caution when confronted with similar circumstances.

Katy, my sincere condolences. I'm glad you're spending time with your teammates so that you can share memories of your friends. I'm also happy to hear that you're planning to join a memorial ride for Kristy. Getting back on the bike soon is important to recovering, I think. You want to be able to remember that cycling is a beautiful sport, and that while none of us can choose the hour of our going, your friends left doing something they love. Cherish their memories, and continue cycling.

appropriate punishment is debatable, but I firmly believe that those individuals driving an automobile that causes bodily harm or even death to cyclists should have their license stripped and FORCED to ride a bike to and from work, for errands etc. I also believe that along with a DMV test there should be an appropriate bike awareness session included.

It's extremely sad to hear about instances like this.

This is probably the stupidest thing ever written on this forum.

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"It takes courage to do it, to be a runner. We all found that out a long time ago. Because it's about more than fatigue. It's about pain, and dealing with it for a long time. And its about resolve." - Quentin Cassidy

I think we should hold off on the cop/who's fault is this debate until later time, if even then.


To the family and friends, you are in my thoughts and prayers. Very sad.

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Fortitudine Vincimus

Agreed. Laying blame won't ease the pain.

Deeply saddened by this...

No offence guys, but at this point i think the friends and family involved don't need to hear the bickering of people on a forum as to who's fault it was. I am truly sorry for those that have suffered this lost, and I know nothing anyone can say will make it better.

All of our condolences

---

NCCP certified Comp coach

Update on SF Gate

http://www.sfgate.com/...TVH7DF.DTL&tsp=1

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

BOO...you have no idea what he feels...like he drives around thinkin hey i wouldnt mind if i hit someone w my car and killed them. I know all of us have had bad exp w cars in general and some w police officers but that doesnt mean that all cops r jerks and out to get people. Even if the officer comes back to work he may never be the same. that being said I do feel awful for the Cyclists their families especially and the officer as well. Hopes for a speedy recovery for the injured

That is the most %^$*! up statement I have ever heard! Oh wait, this is Slowtwitch. Yes this is a sad story, but as always, when a L.E.O is involved everyone comes out of the wood work to bash them. Would you feel the same way if it was a Fire Fighter or paramedic? I doubt it.

So very sorry to hear this tragic news. My thoughts and prayers are with the families of Mat and Kristy and also with you and your club. Support each other in this time of grieving.

I'll agree with that one.

I was a cop that was hit, while I was directing traffic. The only reason I am here today is because I had a split second to jump into the air before the girl hit me. I fly over 80 feet before I hit the ground. My injuries still effect me 28 years later. She did NOT stop. She was caught the next day trying to report her car being vandalisized so her insurance would pay for the damage!!! She was charged with 2 felonies. One was dismissed and the other reduced to a misdeamenor......she was fined $50 and sent home.

So don't even go there about punishment when a cop is involved!!

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.
.
Paul

Unless you're a district attorney who prosecutes cases such as that, then I don't give a shit what you're opinion is (and have you even read all the posts ever on this forum, buddy? Didn't think so). I'm not getting into some stupid internet arguement about who did what and who should pay for it. Fact: several people are DEAD. Cyclists just like you and I. People out training trying to make themselves the best they could be. I do not care one little bit who was driving that car, a cop, a priest, a tax guy, hell, even my grandmother. They need to pay for what they've done. And if you think that no one has been charged with murder for falling asleep at the wheel and taking a life accidentally, you're wrong. Watch a little more Dateline. They just had a special on that very topic. So if Joe Shmoe killed some random chick and went to prison for murder, you think they wouldn't nail your ass to the wall for killing a cop, albeit accidentally? If you have more to say to me, do it somewhere other than this thread, because I'm done defending my position. I have a life to go live.

And I cannot stress enough how horrible it is that anyone of us died, by any means. I am TRUELY sorry to those who knew and loved the victims. Let's keep the focus of all this where it belongs, on them, their loved ones, and the families who have to find a way to move on.

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"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

The Dude Abides...

I was wondering the same thing. Insurance reports show that the rate of accidents increase dramatically in the 48 hours after the time change.

Don't effing BOO me. Like I said before, I'm not going to argue. I just came from the crash site where I saw my friend's blood still on the ground, picked up shattered pieces of his sunglasses. As horrible as I feel, I can't begin to imagine what his parents are going through. Guilt holds nothing over the pain of burying your child.

EDIT: It doesn't really matter how the deputy feels or who gets blamed, nothing will bring Matt back.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Dude, who the hell are you? go away, don't come back.

Why doesn't everyone please take a chill (or move the who did what and how punishment is meted out to the LR).

Like Katy said, nothing will bring Matt or Kristy back. And that fucking sucks.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

doesnt matter what anyone thinks...i PROMISE they guy didnt go out in his car today with the intent to hurt someone. and as we are on the roads with vehicles that are obviously bigger than us something like this is going to happen several time a year. all i was tryin to say was not to rush to hang the guy when u dont even know the whole story yet.

Katy, most of us here would just like to give you a hug. Say what you want to say right now ;I think you have that right.

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_______________________________________________________________

"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

Thanks for the kinds thoughts. I'm fortunate to belong to team that is really more of a family than just a racing team. We've had a steady stream of hugs.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Matt, thanks for the update. It is difficult to read, though, with so many people on ST so closely involved.

Katy, Cathy, I am at a total loss of words for you two. It is good to hear that you have a good group of friends out there that are pulling together.

My most sincerest condolences.

Parke

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

There is a video link on the front page here of my teammates and I at the crash site today. The very end is my teammate Ben talking about Matt while I lean on him. The reporter asked me to say something, but I thought Ben could do a better job, and he did.

http://www.mercurynews.com/

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

    I am deeply saddened by this story and have cried for both the victims as well as the driver. Ive been fortunate enough in my lifetime to not have experienced loss of this magnitude, or have taken a life. But I am sure that both are equally and terribly hard. As a person, I have a compassion and cry for the loss of beautiful lives and those who suffer their loss, and I don't even know these souls. I can only imagine how incredibly harder it may be if i were to take a life myself. Id already be saddened by the loss of life--- but to know that I caused all this pain and ruined these lives would truly kill me. I do not believe the course of action for recovery is to place blame and hate on the driver...and say such hateful things...it is more important to focus on yourself , and remembering a dear friend.
I do know the driver of the car on a personal level. He is a coworker of my sister who works in the court system, where he was also a baliff. She has gone on and on about what a kinder soul he has-- how he never swears, or even drinks. Ive never met him, but have heard great, sweet things of him throughout the years. He was released and sent home with a officer in crisis team to help him cope with his actions. He was said to be very emotional, and i'm sure his life will never be the same. Pending investigation his career will be put on hold. But he has to live with knowing he took a life everyday, weighed down with guilt and remorse. He is a nice young man...i hope for the best for him, as well as the friends and family of the victims. And also to remember countless other victims of other similar tragic accidents.

first of all driving is not a right, it's a privilege.

as triathletes and cyclists, every day is russian roullette on the roads as we risk this same deadly tragedy by a reckless driver. it's an accident, yeah, but a reckless, negligent accident. we are human. i don't even know the victims, yet i feel enraged. their brilliant young lives snuffed out in a split second. i want to inflict some form of wrath on that negligent asshole driver for killing two fellow cyclists. will i? no. but i want to.

others can pray for the driver. not me.

"a nice young man?" jeffrey dahmer was a "nice young man."

""a nice young man?" jeffrey dahmer was a "nice young man." "

Get a grip. This was certainly a tragedy, and one I'm sure the officer in question will be paying for in some shape or form for the rest of his life, but it was a matter of drifting off at the wheel. Calling him a negligent asshole and comparing him to a serial killer doesn't add anything to the discussion. Like many accidents, I'd bet he didn't even know he was taking a risk until it was too late. Without any more facts than we know now, it sounds like a matter of the cyclists being in the right place at the wrong time coincident with the officer drifting off, which, contrary to the apparently stellar driving records of everyone on ST, happens all time.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Couldn't agree more. This is a more than tragic incident because two amazing people have been lost. People can be angry because a person was negligent in operating a vehicle and should be held responsible, but this shouldn't become a witch hunt for some person who tried to kill cyclists, it just isn't that.

First, you have the intentional acts (I am going to buzz these bikers who held me up for five seconds/ road rage/ etc.) that occurr as a result of premeditated, malicious intent. These are the incidents that pose a SERIOUS concern to me as a cyclist and should draw the kind of anger that I have seen expressed here.

Then you have the second set of incidents, such as this one. A pure and simple case of being in the right place at the wrong time. This is a dangerous sport because we are on the roads with cars yet don't have the same protections. What if the same people had just finished their ride, been driving around that corner at the exact same time, bikes on top of cars? The news may have hit the forum, but not with the same magnitude that it is at the moment.

My point is that I don't think this is an instance where people should go on a witch hunt because a CYCLIST was killed. This is not that type of malicious incident that raises the rights of bicyclists to be on the road and motorists respect of those rights.

Katy, Cathy and to everyone who knew the cyclists - we are all thinking of Matt and Kristy even if we've never met them before. We all have a common bond with them through this crazy sport of ours. Our thoughts and prayers go out to you, their other friends and their family. I can only imagine how horrible this is for all of you.

dude, seriously - read your post a few times and think, "do I really mean that?"

There are a lot of people much more intimately impacted by this tragic accident than you - let's hope that they take a much higher road than you.

Katy and anyone else who knew these cyclists. My deepest condolences on your loss, things like this should not happen but they do. We have lost people know to others on this board before, but this was the first account that brought me to tears. Be strong, cherish the memories.

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Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

Well fuck all.

Posted: Tuesday, 11 March 2008 6:17AM

Deputy in Fatal Bicyclist Crash Had Prior Driving Conviction



SAN JOSE (KCBS) -- The Santa Clara County deputy sheriff involved in a crash that killed two bicyclists had served probation for a drag racing conviction, state records show.

Deputy James Council, whose car crossed over a double yellow line on Stevens Canyon Road Sunday, was sentenced to 24 months of court probation in October of 2001 for a engaging in a speed contest the month before, according to DMV records. The 27-year-old had finished his punishment before being hired by the sheriff’s department in 2006.

The crash killed 30-year-old Matt Peterson and 31-year-old Kristianna Gough, and injured 20-year-old Christopher Knapp. Witnesses told the San Francisco Chronicle they heard Council say he had fallen asleep at the wheel.

Investigators with the California Highway Patrol said there is no evidence the deputy had lost consciousness while he was driving.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I am relieved to see that the third rider, the 20-year-old German, is doing better.

The Chronicle says his condition at Stanford Hospital has been upgraded from "critical" to "stable."

My thoughts are with all of their families...

Its worse than that Cathy, he has a prior DUI as well.

http://www.sfgate.com/...EVHT6I.DTL&tsp=1

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

There are two parts to this story that I believe are being overlooked. First, as an on duty police officer, the cop needs to be held to a higher standard than what would normally be applied to someone "falling asleep at the wheel." Police officers are to be held beyond reproach, and when they screw up, their punishment needs to be more severe because the public at large has more at stake than with the mistakes of an average citizen.

Second, on this meandering road, (which I was riding on at 10:00 am on Saturday), what are the chances this guy would "fall asleep at the wheel" and hit the only people in the area? Plus or minus five seconds, and this wouldn't have been news. There are more likely explanations. I understand the cop deserves innocent until proven guilty, but I think he was drunk/stoned while on duty. Drunk people have a habit of steering their cars into what they're looking at, and I'm guessing that's what the cop did.

Lastly, I don't trust cops investigating themselves. The CHP isn't far enough removed to satisfy my interest as a concerned citizen. I hope this ends up in court where the public can have all of its questions answered.

My scared, pissed off, and defensive 2 cents.

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Ignorance is bliss until they take your bliss away.

This so completely distressing to me. It was bad enough to believe it was a freak accident, but if we we lost Matt and Kristy because we were paying someone who should not be behind the wheel to drive I'm going to be sick (again).

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

so waddya think of your friend now? "never swears or drinks" huh. "nice young man" my ass.

looks like he'll get plenty of "infliction" behind bars, the motherfucker.

out of morbid curiosity, i anxiously await your response.

Man, I've tried to say that yesterday in the lav room but people don't seem to get that.

And, I really don't want to see this thread turned into any type of debate, Law enforcement bashing etc. I just think it's the wrong place.

Katy.....My prayers and thoughts were/are with you and your team mates. God Bless

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Hurry Up Every Chance You Get

(formerly LuctorEtEmergo)

First my condolences all the friends and family members of those lost. This is obviously a terrible, senseless tragedy. As for the investigation, the CHP will give this deputy no quarter. If any other agency were handling the investigation I would be suspicious, but the CHP doesn't do "cop favors". My brother was a Sheriff's deputy in L.A. for six years and had several co-workers locked up by CHP for DUI (and rightly so).

I cant seem to understand why you put those phrases under quotations, as if they are not true. You clearly did not know him. But unless you can prove otherwise, I'll stick with my sisters character witness of him.

I can reiterate what I've said, because you obviously may not have read it. Ive never met him, and yes he is a kind human. A human because, as humans we all make mistakes. Some bigger than others. He will have to go through life knowing he took these wonderful, phenomenal, lives-- and im sure that will be the toughest thing he'll ever have to do.
When I first read this article, when the name of the deputy wasn't released yet, I felt sorrow for the riders and their families. And still do. After looking at it from yet another view point, after learning it was just an average person like you or me, i find myself obsessed with the idea that it could have been me. As a human being, I can name a handful of times I may have been too tired to drive, and shouldn't have. Luckily nothing ever happened to me, and this is a real eye opener (as many other cases like these are). And based on these posts Ive read- im sure you would all agree, if you happen to be driving and taken a life of a person as extraordinary as these people, in any other circumstance (i.e. blind spots); i know i would be suicidal with grief. I don't think anyone can comprehend that thought...I've tried, and it brings me to tears.

And I'd also like to add- that in my previous post, and at this moment, I take nothing away from the pain friends and family must be feeling. As well as an unfortunate loss of good people who would have gone on to do great things.
I think more than placing blame and hate, what they need now are our thoughts and kind words to get through this terribly tough time. Unless you are still coping with the second stage of loss, I don't think its a mature approach.
My special regards and prayers to the family and friends..

He has a DUI conviction and his father is on the force. This whole thing is not passing the smell test.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

http://www.sfgate.com/...EVHT6I.DTL&tsp=1

I guess plea bargaining doesn't count. Deputy in crash that killed cyclists faced drunk-driving case in 2001
Demian Bulwa, Chronicle Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 11, 2008 More...
(03-11) 12:23 PDT CUPERTINO -- The Santa Clara County sheriff's deputy who struck and killed two competitive bicyclists Sunday was charged in 2001 in Los Angeles with drunken driving and engaging in an exhibition of speed, court records show.

The two drunken-driving charges against James Council - one count for allegedly being intoxicated and one for having a blood-alcohol level above the legal limit of 0.08 percent - were dismissed by the Los Angeles city attorney's office in a plea deal during the arraignment process, the prosecutor who handled the case said today.

Council, now 27, pleaded guilty only to engaging in a speed exhibition, a misdemeanor. Commissioner Gary Bindman sentenced him to 24 months of probation and fined him $713, including court costs, said Deputy City Attorney Larry Shelley. Shelley said he did not recall the specifics of the case.

According to Shelley and court records, Council's violation occurred Sept. 15, 2001. He was charged Oct. 1 of that year and pleaded guilty 28 days later.

Council was hired as a Santa Clara County sheriff's deputy 18 months ago. On Sunday, he was 4 1/2 hours into a scheduled 12 1/2-hour shift when his cruiser crossed over the center line on Stevens Canyon Boulevard in Cupertino at 10:25 a.m., striking three competitive bicyclists head-on and killing two of them.

Two men who came upon the accident scene a short time after the crash said Council had said he must have fallen asleep at the wheel and didn't know what had happened.

Council is on paid leave from the Sheriff's Department while the California Highway Patrol investigates the crash.
Sgt. Don Morrissey, a spokesman for the department, said Monday that he could not legally comment on whether the department had tested Council's sobriety after the crash because it was a personnel matter. However, Morrissey said, "In incidents like this, we take blood (for drug and alcohol testing). That's our policy. And we're to the letter of our policy right now."

Council did not return a telephone call Monday seeking comment, and an older man who answered the door at his Santa Clara home told a reporter to leave.

The crash Sunday killed bicyclists Kristy Gough, 30, of San Leandro and Matt Peterson, 29, of San Francisco. The third cyclist, 20-year-old Christopher Knapp of Germany, was hospitalized at Stanford University Medical Center, where a spokesman said
today he was "doing well."



E-mail Demian Bulwa at dbulwa@sfchronicle.com.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

From www.sfgate.com

County sheriff's deputy who struck and killed two competitive bicyclists Sunday was charged in 2001 in Los Angeles with drunken driving and engaging in an exhibition of speed, court records show.
The two drunken-driving charges against James Council - one count for allegedly being intoxicated and one for having a blood-alcohol level above the legal limit of 0.08 percent - were dismissed by the Los Angeles city attorney's office in a plea deal during the arraignment process, the prosecutor who handled the case said today.

http://rememberingmatt.blogspot.com/

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

how do you have the audacity to so arduously defend the criminally negligent driver, given these new revelations?

are you insane?

my apologies for my mis-information and to you katy. I was replying to the previous post, in which the article only spoke of drag racing, nothing about DUI.

that story is all too common, 20 year olds drinking and driving. I hardly blame that piece of information that is 7 years old, on the events of sunday morning. Based on what ive heard of him, i stick by my previous postings.

It looks like his future from here on out is pretty foggy, and will be figured out through the proper channels.

All im saying.. its a terribly tragedy for everyone. The families, and the one who has to live with himself for doing it.

it most certainly is a DUI...he admitted to driving under the influence and plea bargained a lesser charge. He was driving drunk, that is a fact, not an accusation.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I'll stick to what I know, first hand. Without a doubt, the world was a better place with Matt Peterson in it.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

i agree.

I'm in no way defending the guy's actions from the previous incident but as of yet nothing has shown that his complete fuck up from 7 years ago had anything to do with this incident. Believe me, if it turns out that he was drunk and hit an innocent person (regardless of whether they participated in the same sport as I do) I'd be calling for his head as loudly as anyone.

Katy, thanks for the video link.

I'm 3,000 miles away and still find myself speechless over the whole thing.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

I know if someone I knew was killed, I would be devastated. But I know Deputy Council, and he is a kind, considerate, atypical deputy. He has a heart and conscience. He is completely devastated. My heart goes out to him because I know he is in pain. I care about him as a person as much as the cyclists friends and family cared about them. Any human lose is beyond comprehension to the people that care about them. I understand if people can't see that Deputy Council is a human with feelings and is a decent, caring, giving person. If you needed an officer, he is the one you want. He never bullied anyone. He treated everyone, even in-custodies, with respect. He listens to people when they had problems. There are some arrogant cops out there, I've met some. But he wasn't one. You can demonize him if you want, but that isn't the truth. God help you if you, in a split second lapse of judgement, cause injury to anyone and the vultures come out and pick you apart. He has a conscience. My heart hurts for him.

how is it that someone with a conviction for dui and street racing ends up driving a cop car.

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_______________________________________________________________

"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

Yeah, he is a nice young man. He has more class and compassion than you. He doesn't drink or do drugs, you can rest assured that was no contribution. Just by your postings and hate, he is a much better man than you.

yup. that he does.

Nobody really takes a first post from an anonymous person who has just registered very seriously. What you and the person who claims to know the officer because their sister knows him say does not carry any weight for this reason. Nobody has any reason to believe you.

The facts will come out in time. As you weren't there, your assurances are as groundless as the accusations flying around. If you like this person so much your time is better spent with them.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

You don't have to believe me. He has a lot of friends and people who care about him and know him.

That's great. I hope they're not all wasting their time posting on internet forums.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

Why do you care what I do?

This is a triathlon forum. We don't like to see cyclists killed. This thread is in essence about the loss of the cyclists and the grief of those amongst our number who knew them. The cop is not really the issue at this moment in time and most of us are reserving our judgement until the facts are known.

The cop is getting a bad press. This is to be expected, he did cross the road and hit the cyclists. Some people are jumping to conclusions. This is also to be expected. Any attempt at defence of him at this point is, given that you are not a member of this community, useless.

If he is your friend, I am sure that you can be of more comfort to him doing something else. Unless you actually know what happened (and you don't) you can't assure anyone of anything.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

Zackly. Out of deference and respect for the members of the forum who knew and rode with them, can we lock this thread? I don't think they need to see the raging accusations and witch hunting going on while they are trying to deal with the grief and loss.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Not to lessen things here...fact is that this police officer is not guilty of anything PRIOR that MOST of the people I know are with certainty guilty of. I have drag raced, I have driven tired (never ever driven intoxicated at all)...but I know many many who have and either made it safe, or got a DUI.

We as a community have had a great loss. But, this guy was ONLY 27. Lets not convict him for prior errors...they have NOTHING to do with the horrible tragidy that occured. We all may want to lay blame and find guilt...is he guilty...if he fell asleap, yes. BUT, he was NOT drag racing and he was NOT DUI at the time. Every one deserves a second, third, forth chance...tell me that you all have not gotton another chance at something.

Not to take away the heavy burdon of what happened, nor the pain of the survivors.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I think that is a most excellent idea. This forum is posted for the world to see on an online newspaper article as a link. People of all wakes of life, and opinion, are reading the things that are being said, and are grieving in their own way. If there is a criteria that needs to be met in order to become a member...that should be specified.

I usually mind my own P & Q's here..... but I need to put this out there because I'm a bit lost a one big fact in this tragedy....

Cop said he must have dozed off and that is what supposedly caused him to drive across the road causing this senseless tragedy.

We're all taught (or so I think)... if we're driving along day or night and are tired (and can't make it to our destination), we should pull over and get off the road, right?Sleep until we can continue without causing harm to other drivers and ourselves.... etc...

So, if this officer was so tired and couldn't keep his eyes open, why didn't he pull over and get off the road? Why did he keep going? He had to have known well before dozing off that he was coming close to having to close his eyes even for a second.....

I don't know the area where this happened (whether is was close to his HQ's or not)....and why he didn't take precaution when he felt the need to close his eyes....

Maybe I'm just wondering out loud. I just can't figure it out.....I just can not figure it out......

"Every one deserves a second, third, forth chance...tell me that you all have not gotton another chance at something. "


Cool! Doing wrong automatically guarantees you a second, third, forth chance!
Just with the sorry excuse that we all make mistakes, so nobody should be held responsible for their errors/mistakes?
Freebies for all?
Sounds like we don't really need rules of society and it's laws! Just let it sort out itself by survival of the fittest and meanest.

Where do I sign up?

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___________________________________________
Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

1. Yes, it is a tragedy. I feel awful for everyone.

2. I'm no shrink and I'm no lawyer, but let's not forget that it is *** alleged *** because of a hearsay comment that he used the term 'dozed off' in an attempt to rationalize what might have happened, while he was obviously in a state of mind because of an extremely disturbing circumstance that very few people will ever (fortunately) have the opportunity to experience. Maybe he did but maybe he didn't.

yes, true... I agree....

and if he didn't doze off, we're now facing the question of what DID cause him to cross the centre lines and hitting the 3 riders?

what was he really doing ? what was he really doing that could have caused such a horrific accident?

i know evidence will play a part in finding out the answers (if he doesn't come forth and admit to what he was doing or did).

i just muddle over it day in and day out because to me, it makes no sense... that's all.

i'm not by any means, angry at anyone on this forum for their opinions on what they post. i'm just looking at the situation from where i sit and ask myself these questions (maybe too much).

ride safe everyone! and wear your helmets!

I'm not from SF and don't know what the road is like but,...

1. from reading the description of the accident the speed at impact must have been substantial, was this on an incline?

2. prior convictions aside, dozing off 4 hours into a shift seems unlikely. As someone who has been around cop cars (never inside though, fraternity brothers and frat parties!) the radio is always going and extremely loud. If that is soothing enough to put one to sleep then he was extremely tired and should have called in sick.

3. They should check the in car computer (laptop) to see if he was surfing the net while driving, just a hunch?


We can't bring them back, but we can try to keep others safe.
I think we all owe that to them, so lets move on with a new thread of ideas for improving cyclist visibility and overall awareness.

Yes, Matt, Kristy and Christopher were coming downhill, the deputy up. There were no skidmarks, no signs of an attempt to stop.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

the diagram appears to show the opposite, the deputry was coming downhill and riders traveling uphill.
http://www.sfgate.com/...2&type=printable

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Nor do I use punctuation in the way a child sprinkles glitter over a ribbon of glue on construction paper - Trash Talk

No, you're reading it wrong. Uphill/downhill as labeled on that diagram are correct, but refer to East /West. The road runs North/ South. There is also a downhill grade going South. Matt and Kristy were traveling South, downhill.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Maybe he was running a plate on his SCMOD....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

hey. what's with the ~.!?

That is another thread! Need to change it back! I however think your new ST name should be "`~^"

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

record10carbon is way cooler.

didja see the latest legal strategy? blame it on fatigue....i think he was drunk.

http://www.sfgate.com/...VVIOS9.DTL&tsp=1

I took five photos near the accident during my ride this morning. It's a very slight incline/decline and the maximum speed limit on this road is 35 on the straight sections. All of the paint on the road used by the police to mark locations was on the rider's side of the road.