http://www.cyclingnews.com/...erful-gallery/312939

I wonder what the reason is ..

Is there a stages team? Do they use stages PMs?

Do we know that they were made available to the team and that the team or riders don't have previous pedal sponsor commitments?

As for Stages, I've been told by a couple of Team Sky rider's coaches that they are only used for show (i.e., in races) - for training, it is still SRMs.

As for Stages, I've been told by a couple of Team Sky rider's coaches that they are only used for show (i.e., in races) - for training, it is still SRMs.

I am a former user of the Vectors. I used them for a few weeks and I could never get them to give me consistent readings. I installed them numerous times exactly as they said with the tools they recommended. My baseline was using a Computrainer and Wahoo Kickr. My readings were inconsistent by a significant margin. I'm less emotional about it now , but I was a very pissed off customer.

I ended up getting a Quarq Riken and couldn't be happier. My readings are extremely close +/- 3 watts compared to my Computrainer and Kickr.

I have a hard time believing that a professional cycling team would use a completely different power meter for training as they do for racing

Hey, I'm a fan of your book. But I can tell you that that is BS. They may have used both at the same time at times for comparison purposes.

Interesting Andy!

I'd guess they could do that, but why deal with different +/- values or inconsistency?

We at FasCat have done testing with PT / Stages and SRM on the same bike numerous times

$$, plus the opportunity to have input into the development of Stages' dual-sided powermeter.

So far, I've been very happy with my Vector. Matches my Kickr within a watt or 2. My only problem is that I get dropouts when using my 910. Fortunately no dropouts or very few when using my 510 which is the more important factor anyway. I bought the Vector because I wanted to switch between my 3 bikes. I've only done 3 swaps between 2 of the bikes as I was scared of breaking the pods, but so far everything has gone well. My Tri bike uses 650 wheels and my road bike(s) has 700 wheels so I really wanted something easy to switch.

"...a gauge on each crank arm."

Isn't that what Pioneer did?

or!! or!!
a gauge on the crank spider!!

I take it you're not a big fan of Stages. lol

Team Sky on Stages, and when I toured the Stages Factory, they make sure each PM is within 1% accuracy before sending to the team and rider. Will never run another powermeter myself!

As for SRM on Garmin, it's because the Vectors are FUBAR.

We coach a pro on the Garmin team, and his power files are all over the place. It's either 50% high or low. Not even the Garmin mechanics know what they are doing. Wonder if it has anything to do with Garmin pulling it's sponsorship next year????

If you're looking at getting Vectors, just get a two Stages for two bikes if you need different crank arms!

interesting that the Garmin stock is getting destroyed today on an analyst down grade.

Just so many goofy solution to this problem when rear hub and crank spider are so (comparatively) simple and effective.

We have seen that with the Stages and Vectors with the Garmin 910XT. We think that the radio transmitter location of the watch just isn't strong enough to pick up the signal down in the pedal/crank area.

Could also just be the strength. Just as you said, the 510 works perfectly.

We had an athlete with a 910XT, always had the dropouts, switched to 510, and works flawlessly on TT bike.

Is the firmware currently up to date? Could see if that helps.

Is it more a problem with power meter pedals rather than just Garmin?

Abstract

Powermeters have traditionally been integrated into the crankset but several manufacturers have designed new systems located elsewhere on the bike such as inside the pedals.
PURPOSE: This study aimed to determine the validity and reliability of the Keo power pedals during several laboratory cycling tasks.
METHODS: Ten active male participants (mean ± SD age 34.0 ± 10.6 y, height 1.77 ± 0.04 m, body mass 76.5 ± 10.7 kg), familiar with laboratory cycling protocols completed this study. Each participant was required to complete two laboratory cycling trials on an SRM ergometer (SRM, Germany) which was also fitted with the Keo power pedals (Look, France). The trials consisted of an incremental test to exhaustion followed by 10 min rest and then three 10 s sprint tests separated by 3 min of cycling at 100 W.
RESULTS: Over power ranges of 75-1147 W the Keo power pedal system produced typical error (TE) values of 0.40, 0.21 and 0.21 for the incremental, sprint and combined trials respectively, compared to the SRM. Mean differences of 21.0 W and 18.6 W were observed between trials 1 and 2 with the Keo system in the incremental and combined protocols respectively. In contrast the SRM produced differences of 1.3 W and 0.6 W for the same protocols respectively.
CONCLUSIONS: The power data from the Keo power pedals should be treated with some caution given the presence of mean differences between them and the SRM. Furthermore, this is exacerbated by poorer reliability than that of the SRM powermeter.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/24896154/

You'd think that the face Team Garmin's headquarters is literally across the highway from Stages (maybe 1/2 mile as the crow flies)...that if Garmin steps out, they'd pick up Stages as a power meter sponsor. I mean...they're right there & they could walk across the highway. Great opp for pro team research on product & whatever else. Seems like a marriage that would be logical.

Minus the fact that Team Garmin is called...uhh...Team Garmin, not Team Stages. ;)

Fwiw, I've sent over a note asking for an official reasoning.

I also find it a bit odd that they didn't at least keep up appearances and fit the units with pods.

The 910XT/Vector thing is a 910XT thing, not a Vector thing. It occurs on other PM's (Stages and Quarq most notably) in the aero position, depending on frame, body position/composition and just pure luck. Garmin came about as close as you could get to an admission that something was up with the 910XT's and reception for some PM's back late last year, but has since sorta backed away on that (though, it's clear that's really the issue).

I have a hard time believing that a professional cycling team would use a completely different power meter for training as they do for racing. I seem to recall several benchmark studies showing that the data points don't map consistently across the different platforms.

He has a Stages and PowerTap to train with

we never see any riders with much more than 1% difference over the course of a whole ride.

I wouldn't recommend worrying to much about L/R balance.

We talked about that. He was saying that most of the riders he trains/races with, or the trainers aren't ever worried about left/right balance.

Kind of skeptical about the whole issue. Unless you're in the 3-5% of people who have had physical issues with one leg or the other, we never see any riders with much more than 1% difference over the course of a whole ride. That could also just be the 1% error from a power meter.

I wouldn't recommend worrying to much about L/R balance.

When training with power, if you're making your numbers, you're good. If not, you need rest :D

That's interesting....so I'm understanding that after 90ish miles or so, you start seeing the difference in your leg balance??

Definitely could be a "stronger" leg taking hold of the fatigue in the other. Maybe some more single leg or functional strength, isolating the legs.

That's interesting....so I'm understanding that after 90ish miles or so, you start seeing the difference in your leg balance??

Definitely could be a "stronger" leg taking hold of the fatigue in the other. Maybe some more single leg or functional strength, isolating the legs.

That's what totally baffles me. At least try to keep the appearance of using the units.

I just mis-read his statement about it happening due to the wind, and just a suggestion.

Are you saying that functional strength training is bad in general? If not trying to build "strength", what about for better posture on the bike and injury prevention.

The imbalance begins recording as soon as I hit crosswinds and spans entire time of the ride, no connection with fatigue. I rode extensively East-West during those times and our prevailing winds are S-SW, many days of high and gusty winds, so not really related to fatigue.

Interesting - maybe something about leaning the bike that alters how you pedal?

Garmin out next year as a sponsor right?

Like they could care less..re public perception...

Warranty on their product is likely killing them :)
Hence they can't be bothered fixing the 910xt ... Just walk away quietly..... Ssshhhhhh no one will notice

Garmin out next year as a sponsor right?
Like they could care less..re public perception...

For those curious, official answer back from Garmin regarding the team not using real/complete Vector systems and instead using SRM systems (it was a two-part question):

"In regard to the pictures posted – as part of our partnership with Slipstream Sports, Garmin works with the athletes, mechanics and head of Sport Science to continue to develop our products, including Vector. By doing so, we are able to make improvements and enhancements before these products are made available to the general public. As such, it is not at all uncommon to see different combinations of Vector, pedals, and other power meters on team bikes. We are committed to the constant improvement of our products, including our Vector power meters."

Obviously, from my standpoint kinda sidesteps any real answer. Anyway, fwiw.

Well a non-answer is just as good as the truth in this situation, I think. I don't really understand how Garmin can do hardware/software development on the Vector if the pedals are not being fitted with transmitter-battery pods.

I've looked at heaps of pictures of the TDF races bikes (S5's, R5's) fitted with race numbers and pictures of bikes on the team car without being able to find a bike where it appears that the battery-transmitter pods are fitted. Maybe I'm missing it.

I've looked at heaps of pictures of the TDF races bikes (S5's, R5's) fitted with race numbers and pictures of bikes on the team car without being able to find a bike where it appears that the battery-transmitter pods are fitted. Maybe I'm missing it.

Found it for you:



Look closely and you can see the pods attached.