I don't focus on base at all in the winter. I find endurance easier to build and the spring weather motivates me to ride and rise a lot. The cold, dark days are for shorter harder workouts.

Yeah im relatively new to this. i know base is good for running, why wouldnt we apply the same concept to biking? or is that not the normal, different systems being used?

an oldie but goodie (?).

http://biketechreview.com/...ase-a-new-definition

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My week currently consists of 3 2x20 tempo workouts, 2 2x30 tempo workouts, and a 2.5 hour endurance ride. It use to be 4 2x20 tempo workouts, but I'm dropping one now that I can start back running somewhat after my ankle sprain back in September.

Base is going to look alot different between an early season IM goal, an olympic distance triathlete, and a cyclist-only guy like myself.

I think 4 hour high-zone 2 rides have a place in each of those plans, but their context and frequency will look much different.

-Physiojoe

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-Physiojoe
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When did "base" and "ftp" become decoupled?

Do you work on some sort of extraordinary metabolism not found in creatures big and small on this planet?

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It seems there is a trend towards higher intensity workouts in the winter and away from traditional "base" training.Some feel that reversing the two can be even more helpful for long-course racing.

Personally, I am not convinced for a number of reasons:

• My "higher intensity" workouts would be pretty schitty in the winter, simply because I would not have the fitness required to execute them well. My power would be down and the idea of doing multiple intervals (or even extended intervals) w/o some base training just doesn't seem logical.
• Endurance fitness seems to stick around longer, while higher intensity fitness tends to fade more quickly. So doing a bunch of high intensity stuff in the winter to switch later to longer, lower intensity stuff would mean much of that hard work disappears.
• The broader my base, the better I can endure longer periods of lowered training (illness, travel, general life issues). There have been years where I have had to bypass a "base" period and jumped right into higher intensity stuff. I could get "fit" pretty quickly, but it was always a struggle to maintain it. If I took any time off, it seemed to disappear very quickly. I used to refer to this as "surface fitness". I could race and do OK, but w/o the necessary foundation, the fitness just wasn't "deep".

That said, I think it is something that each person needs to evaluate on their own. I've done enough years on the bike where I feel very confident that the traditional winter base training, later-season intensity stuff works best for me.

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I think that a majority of cyclists have a difficult time riding for hours while on a trainer, so the higher intensity, shorter duration stuff works best for me during the late fall, winter, and early spring months when its difficult to get outside.

Yes, this is a good point. I would also point out that "base" is not a physiological adaptation. People continue to talk about building "base" like it is some type of specific adaptation.

I think Steven Sieler did the best job of explaining all of this. Google Sieler and Understanding Intervals. Good stuff.

Base training is bull shit. Everything you do all year round contributes to your base. unless you take an extended break you still have your base.

The questions you need to ask revolve around specificity of training, not base training.

Power13: What you describe is specificity and you need to determine if you race short or long course for you most important races. That should dictate a lot of what you do in the winter.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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I should have added that I normally take an extended break in the late Fall / early winter....Chicago weather sucks and keeping motivation to train 365 is not worth it for me. So that is why I said doing any kind of "intensity" during the winter months is simply not worth the effort....for me.

I'll also add that my experience above is based more on my time as a cyclist, not as a triathlete.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Your response to Power13 has me wondering, DD, if you were going Long course, what would your focus on over the winter look like?

I was intending to do a long block of tempo (4x20m, 3x40m) finishing up with 3 weeks of vo2 max work, but I'm curious what your thoughts on it are. Would you go for shorter, more intense sessions in the hour / hour and a half range, and then build specific fitness over the early spring build period, or go for more of the endurance during the winter?

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I'd think about what is most needed to do an IM then i'd do the opposite more or less.

The devil is in the details and I may slice the cake 2 or 3 different ways depending upon the athlete.

It's all about specificity, do the least specific away from your event and the most specific as you get close to it.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Thanks! This really made it click for me. I've just signed up for my 2nd IM next year and this sums up how I will plan the next year of training now. I trained long and slow before my first IM in October and guess what? I "raced" longer and slower than I would have ever imagined based on my past race performances ( 19:2? 5K's, Olympic PR of 2:16ish, and 1:36 half marathon). Granted I went in with the goal of just finishing the race, high fiving every kid I passed, and thanking every volunteer. IM is a different beast totally.

Thanks for another simple, yet precise, nugget of info, desert dude.

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"It's too dangerous and expensive to ride with d*ckheads" -tridork

Base starts after a break that takes place after your season finishes.

So if your last race is mid-Oct., I'd start base at the beginning of November.

I would not suggest doing that type of training load on the bike for a long period of time as you're likely going to ride yourself ragged and come race time be dead. Base should be focused more on increasing aerobic development than maximizing anaerobic abilities as those erode the aerobic base. Doing weekly 5x5min and 20 min TT tests should come later on in a build period, 4-6 weeks out from the main part of your season. You just can't sustain that sort of workload for very long before you crash headlong into a wall of diminishing returns before falling off a cliff of staleness and overreaching.

If you can't get out for significant bike volume (12+ hours) I'd focus more on working FTP from the underside with tempo, sweet spot, and threshold work: ~80-100% of FTP, especially in the range of 85-90% as that work is repeatable over multiple days throughout multiple weeks if your volume isn't too high

Not to challenge you directly, but to put this more into a context that might be useful:

The concept of base as a means to strengthen your aerobic foundation isn't b.s. That's always been the way it's been defined. It's the biggest block of the "triangle of fitness" we always see. It's just the way we put that definition into practice that's changed.

Now "base" doesn't mean getting out for 25-30 hours of distance rides every week. It means shoring up that aerobic fitness that was likely eroded through high intensity workouts and racing. The more time you have to train, the more endurance-type (z2) stuff you can get in. Conversely, the less time you have the higher-intensity/more bang-for-the-buck workouts you would do.

It still has to be understood, though, that a disproportionate amount of VO2 max work and all-out efforts is NOT sustainable over a long-term period and unless that aerobic foundation is repeatedly visited and touched up, that pyramid is going to fall over. This is applicable for everyone from the weekend warrior to the TdF vet.

What is this mythical "aerobic foundation" you speak of? If I read Desert Dude correctly, that would be the part he is calling BS on. Me too. Does not exist. There is only more or less specificity, and considerations regarding timelines of adaptation and how long before you begin to plateau using a particular training tool (i.e., VO2 max intervals). The pyramid concept is the wrong way to look at it and leads to misunderstanding. I am not saying that "steady" paced training is not important or that it should not make up the bulk of a person's mileage, it should, generally. But this is not due to building "base" or "aerobic foundation" but rather due to the time course of adaptation and plateau.

My plan is to take a few weeks off after cross season (dec) and get back on it after christmas. I do 8 weeks of base, building hours throughout that time, with one rest week of less hours. So first week will have about 12 hours, last will be up around 24. My max hr is about 188 and I do all this around 135-140 without exceeding 155-160 on hills. I train intensity after that

Actually, yes it is. As DD said you build base throughout the year.

We've had this discussion many times already. Periodization is from general to specific, not from slow to fast.

You've got it all wrong. By 'base' they mean 'pretend to train by spinning easy in front of a TV for a few hours'. I think they want to know exactly how long they should spend doing that per week.

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Pick up the December 2013 issue of Bicycling Magazine. There is an article in it titled "The Case for Base", which you might want to read. You certainly do not want to peak during the Winter months and have your base eroded away by Spring.

Here is a 12-Week Winter Training Program that will yield great result: http://www.training4cyclists.com/...rogram-testimonials/

And what is in this great 12 week program?

Wait, now you've confused me. Ok not really but I want to make a point.

You say that aerobic fitness erodes through high intensity workouts and racing. Then why would I want to race or do high intensity stuff to get faster if it's going to make me slower?

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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