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Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon
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Hey all- new around here... After a year of triathlons made the plunge and purchased my first tri bike- a used 2012 Cannondale Slice 5.

This is an all carbon bike- noticed a small crack in the frame near the seatpost. Did i get ripped off? Is this even an issue?


Last edited by: Feny: Dec 5, 12 15:24
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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Did you take the picture in a dark room at night for a reason?

I have no idea what I'm looking at here...?
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [grosso27] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, had the dark lighting to accent the crack.

This is the bike- See the DC sticker? Right below the seatpost. The sticker was covering the crack when I purchased the bike... Because it blended and i was buying it over the lunch hour, i didn't notice it.


Here's a lighted pic of the crack.. It's right above the sticker.




Thanks for helping me with this... Much apprecaited.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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I mean it's still kind of hard to tell, but in general a sticker covering a crack is probably never a good thing when buying a used bike :(

Can you see any fibers coming through? Does it appear to be paint only? Can you compress the carbon at all in that area?
If you take a quarter and gently knock on the surrounding areas & then the crack, does the crack sound much duller than the other areas?
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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The fact that it was covered by a sticker is a red flag. I'd ask for my money back immediately if possible because you don't know if there is anything else wrong that you haven't seen yet.

If you're stuck with the bike, then the crack is probably something you don't want to ignore. Get it checked out and see if it can be repaired if needed.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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when did you buy it? and how long have you had it? Are they a poster on here? Was it on Ebay?
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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It was probably crashed, ask for your money back now.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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If you are stuck with the bike (can't return it) all is not lost. Calfee bikes (Google it) does great carbon repair work at pretty reasonable prices. I think they even warranty their work.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [grosso27] [ In reply to ]
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I know.. I purchased off Craig's List from a very nice guy... He seemed very honest and genuine... I have his phone number and sent him a text or two, but don't have a response just yet. He'll receive a phone call if he doesn't respond by tomorrow.

The quarter test is a bit of a fail... it sounds muted over the area, but sounds good throughout the rest of the carbon structure. I can see just a few fibers poking through.

What does a crack do to the integrity of the bike? I'm going to try and return if possible, but if I'm stuck, how much would carbon work cost? Is a small crack a legitimate concern?

The rest of the bike is in perfect condition. I can't quite figure out how something like this could have happened... Especially considering the area affected.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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Feny wrote:
I know.. I purchased off Craig's List from a very nice guy... He seemed very honest and genuine... I have his phone number and sent him a text or two, but don't have a response just yet. He'll receive a phone call if he doesn't respond by tomorrow.


The quarter test is a bit of a fail... it sounds muted over the area, but sounds good throughout the rest of the carbon structure. I can see just a few fibers poking through.

What does a crack do to the integrity of the bike? I'm going to try and return if possible, but if I'm stuck, how much would carbon work cost? Is a small crack a legitimate concern?

The rest of the bike is in perfect condition. I can't quite figure out how something like this could have happened... Especially considering the area affected.


sounds fishy to me!
Considering that he covered the crack with a sticker that blended in; sounds like he was hoping that you wouldn't peel it off.

Don't mess around with structural integrity of a bike....I would definitely try to get a refund. If not I'm sure calfee would be able to help, call them or email them!
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Mr.Pie] [ In reply to ]
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hard to tell, because the pictures are poor. but from the first pic, looks quite serious to me. calfee could repair it pretty easily though, I think.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
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A DC sticker on a slice with no other sponsors or stickers, and it just happens to be covering a crack?

Yeah, you got screwed. He knows there's a crack and intentionally hid it from you. My guess is that he's a ghost to you now and you'll never hear from him again.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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I have the High Mod Slice frame. The seat post from the factory is really long. The crack spot looks like where the leading edge of the seat post might sit in the frame. Have you pulled the post and looked inside? Look at the front edge of the post as well. The seat post might have taken a hit from a crash or low hanging roof rack incident, pushing its lower end forward in the frame.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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"I purchased off Craig's List from a very nice guy... He seemed very honest and genuine."

Your opinion on this will likely change.

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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [sbinzer] [ In reply to ]
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That's exactly what I'm going to do when I get home... And take it to a local shop to asses the damage.

Also... I found the guy on the Internet... He's an attorney at his own firm... I identified him in one of the pictures... Worse case scenario I can go to his office and talk to him directly.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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You will be laughed at. The guy is obviously dishonest (lawyer joke aside) and meeting him face to face won't accomplish much.
It was a DC sticker over a crack for crying out loud. A DC sticker!!!! You can't be naive enough to think thats a coincidence. The guy obviously mislead you and its shitty. That said, your excitement on getting a new bike and finding a deal aside, there's no way that should have slipped by you.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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Feny wrote:
That's exactly what I'm going to do when I get home... And take it to a local shop to asses the damage.

Also... I found the guy on the Internet... He's an attorney at his own firm... I identified him in one of the pictures... Worse case scenario I can go to his office and talk to him directly.


I was thinking you had a chance until I read this. If he is a lawyer he is probably well versed in seller liability and product representation rules. In short, you really can't intimidate him to get your money back. If you had a chance to inspect the bike and accepted it "as is" then you are probably stuck. You "may" have a chance to recover by taking him to small claims court, but I'm not sure I would do that without some clear substantial proof of an intent to defraud. He could easily say he is a fan of "DC" and put the sticker on there in support and that the crack under the sticker was unknown to him at the time of sale.

Hope this goes well for you.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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I would contact him and say the only outcome that is satisfactory is a full refund immediately. If he balks, speak calmly and explain to him that no other option is acceptable and this is the only time you will offer him such a simple solution. If someoene sells you something and conceals damage that could lead to product failure and your injury, that puts them in a seriously precarious position. He is aware that by putting a sticker over the damage, (and we all know that is exactly what he did), he made an attempt to deliberately conceal this damage. It would not be a common practice to start peeling stickers off of a product as an interested buyer so there is no way you would discover this on a pre-buy inspection. I would not go to his office. He will twist it into some kind of threat or intimidation and will likely turn the tables on you. If this fails, personally, I would hire a lawyer and possibly take him to court even if it cost more money. Why? Because I hate crooks.
Last edited by: nickwisconsin: Dec 6, 12 6:58
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [nickwisconsin] [ In reply to ]
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I would contact Cannondale and see if this guy tried to submit a warranty, I bet he did and was turned down so he sold it. I'd personally show up in his office with the bike if he doesn't respond to your requests.

MC
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [nickwisconsin] [ In reply to ]
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nickwisconsin wrote:
I ... He is aware that by putting a sticker over the damage, (and we all know that is exactly what he did), he made an attempt to deliberately conceal this damage...

We do not know (and I say know) that he did this. We suspect he did this, but there is no clear incontrovertible evidence from what we have been told that he either knew of the damage or made any attempt to deliberately hide it. Further, unless the buyer specifically asked "does it have damage/is it cracked" and the seller failed to disclose the damage the seller is well within legal rights to claim it was sold "as is" and that the seller had the opportunity to inspect the bike before purchase - even if he knew of the damage.

Now, if there was a warranty claim filed, or he took it to an LBS for inspection, or there is an insurance (homeowners or auto) claim made or paid, then we can start talking about what he knew or didn't know at time of sale and a failure to disclose material defects.

is it bad practice - absolutely and he should take the bike back and refund the money. is it illegal or a violation of the selling contract? Not as described so far.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [txtriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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txtriathlete wrote:
nickwisconsin wrote:
I ... He is aware that by putting a sticker over the damage, (and we all know that is exactly what he did), he made an attempt to deliberately conceal this damage...


We do not know (and I say know) that he did this. We suspect he did this, but there is no clear incontrovertible evidence from what we have been told that he either knew of the damage or made any attempt to deliberately hide it. Further, unless the buyer specifically asked "does it have damage/is it cracked" and the seller failed to disclose the damage the seller is well within legal rights to claim it was sold "as is" and that the seller had the opportunity to inspect the bike before purchase - even if he knew of the damage.

Now, if there was a warranty claim filed, or he took it to an LBS for inspection, or there is an insurance (homeowners or auto) claim made or paid, then we can start talking about what he knew or didn't know at time of sale and a failure to disclose material defects.

is it bad practice - absolutely and he should take the bike back and refund the money. is it illegal or a violation of the selling contract? Not as described so far.

Again, a reasonable person would assume that a sticker (that is so out of place in terms with the rest of the bike for a variety of reasons) that just happens to cover a crack on an otherwise perfect bike - was put there deliberately.

That said, I suppose the guy could make an argument that he thought it was just a "paint chip" or something like that and was attempting to cover up what he thought was a minor cosmetic issue.

Look at it this way - if someone paints over a crack, dent, ding, damage, rust spot, whatever - in a car and then sells it (even "as-is" - if the damage compromises the car's safety) - most states have refund laws that allow people to get their money back. Now, obviously the issue here is that this is a ~$1500 bike while cars are much more expensive.

Probably not worth all the hassle and heartache that getting the guy to man up will cost. I would just get the bike repaired - ride the everloving shit out of it - and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

Seriously though...a DC STICKER?!?!?!?!!?
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [sbinzer] [ In reply to ]
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sbinzer wrote:
I have the High Mod Slice frame. The seat post from the factory is really long. The crack spot looks like where the leading edge of the seat post might sit in the frame. Have you pulled the post and looked inside? Look at the front edge of the post as well. The seat post might have taken a hit from a crash or low hanging roof rack incident, pushing its lower end forward in the frame.

I think you nailed it right here
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [txtriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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txtriathlete wrote:
nickwisconsin wrote:
I ... He is aware that by putting a sticker over the damage, (and we all know that is exactly what he did), he made an attempt to deliberately conceal this damage...


We do not know (and I say know) that he did this. We suspect he did this, but there is no clear incontrovertible evidence from what we have been told that he either knew of the damage or made any attempt to deliberately hide it. Further, unless the buyer specifically asked "does it have damage/is it cracked" and the seller failed to disclose the damage the seller is well within legal rights to claim it was sold "as is" and that the seller had the opportunity to inspect the bike before purchase - even if he knew of the damage.

Now, if there was a warranty claim filed, or he took it to an LBS for inspection, or there is an insurance (homeowners or auto) claim made or paid, then we can start talking about what he knew or didn't know at time of sale and a failure to disclose material defects.

is it bad practice - absolutely and he should take the bike back and refund the money. is it illegal or a violation of the selling contract? Not as described so far.

I am not an attorney. It sounds like you have a legal backround. I agree that checking with Cannondale and the local bike shops is a great first step.

I would have no hesitancy in turning this over to my attorney to handle - even if it costs more than the frame. Why? I think the odds of someone placing a non standard sticker on a frame, exactly where there is a crack, and convincing anyone that is purely coincidence is pretty unlikely. It isn't like he placed a dozen stickers on the frame. He placed only one. Where? I also think convincing someone that it is purely coincidence that the frame cracked in the exact spot where a sticker was already present is unlikely. If anything - it will expose this schmuck for what he is - in front of his own colleagues. I do think however it is likely the guy will simply return the buyers money. For all we know the buyer asked the seller if there were any issues. Obviously he didn't disclose them or we wouldn't be reading this thread.
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [Feny] [ In reply to ]
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I think it is VERY likely that this guy knowingly hid the crack with the sticker. This is worse than just screwing you over for the cost of the bike. It very well could have caused you serious injury or death if the bike collapsed under you during a 45mph descent. This lawyer is a very bad man. He also has a lot to lose. Not only does he have at least a little money, it would look VERY bad if his colleagues or senior partners at his firm learned of this. I would get a lawyer to help you out with this. I'm sure that there are some rules covering all classified sales on Craig's list so maybe they can help you out a little.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Picture- Used Cannondale Slice 5- Crack in the Carbon [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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You also might want to check the front fork very well. If this was caused by a roof-rack incident, then the front fork may have sustained damage that is not obvious. I'd be more concerned about a front fork failure than a crack in the area of the seattube. The seattube crack, if it failed would probably not cause a crash, a fork would.
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