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Omega on the rear of an S5
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I finally had a chance to play around with getting an Omega on the rear of my S5. Here's what it took:


  1. An M5x14 button head SS screw (this needs to be tightened with a ball end hex key. edit: before the cable stop is mounted to the brake)
  2. 2 large and 2 small spacers (as supplied with the brakes...luckily I only needed one small spacer for the front so I could use the thick spacer from that brake)
  3. A slightly shorter brake mounting nut (the nut supplied with the brake is just barely too long...it bottoms on the washers before tightening with the S5s mounting plate).
  4. A plastic cable end ferrule that I could trim short
  5. Some creative filing on the backside of the cable stop plate.




Oh...and it appears the brake arms have a bit of "toe-in" built in (tapered part of arms slightly inboard), which works great in the front brake position, but I found out that it leads to horrible squealing under heavy braking when the brake is mounted on the rear due to the "stick/slip" that happens when pads are angled the wrong way. Not wanting to "shave" the pads, I decided to put a couple of plastic shims in between the pad holder and the brake arm in front of the mounting screw to accomplish the proper toe-in on the rear. There was enough "slop" to angle them just right when I tightened pad holder mounting screws. Squealing gone :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jul 10, 12 10:07
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have one on the front too? Can you post pics of that? I am thinking of doing the same on my S3.

ishi no ue ni san nen | Perseverance will win in the end. | Blog | @nebmot | Strava | Instagram |
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I get it, I do. I love it...but what did that gain you over this?



----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Bullshit. I dont buy that for a second. We were breaking the hour in the 40k long before the Scott DH, let alone all this gibberish.

Again, I love it, I love the looks and I love tinkering. But three seconds? I hope there is a flux capacitor under the cover.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Compare the green line to the blue:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/...nthourrecord.svg.png

Record10Carbon wrote:
Bullshit. I dont buy that for a second. We were breaking the hour in the 40k long before the Scott DH, let alone all this gibberish.

Again, I love it, I love the looks and I love tinkering. But three seconds? I hope there is a flux capacitor under the cover.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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So, you are saying that that caliper on its own will save a person 3 seconds over the Record caliper?

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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It is a guess, up front it saves about 6 per Andy Coggan's wind tunnel test.

the rear will be less.

Record10Carbon wrote:
So, you are saying that that caliper on its own will save a person 3 seconds over the Record caliper?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks - my issue that I did not point out was that it was the rear...up front, I really really get it. I for one damn near never use my rear brake (thus Campy also agrees and has had a single pivot for years).

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
3 seconds per 40k!

Says who? They haven't put anything out yet. Is the 3/40k for the rear brake, or total with both?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Quel] [ In reply to ]
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Quel wrote:
jackmott wrote:
3 seconds per 40k!

Says who? They haven't put anything out yet. Is the 3/40k for the rear brake, or total with both?

~6 for 40k for the front brake.
this based on following andy coggan's teaser posts.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Would you really run these on a road bike in a crit/road race? Ugh.

I have an Omega on the front of my P3-SL and it is great, but the modulation/stopping power is awful compared with any other top tiered brake (Red/Force, DA/Ultegra, etc.). I'd likely LOSE time/watts in a pack/cornering than in drag savings. Love the design though.

Carry on if the S5 is your TT rig.

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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And the past comes back to haunt us....




----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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rroof wrote:
I'd likely LOSE time/watts in a pack/cornering than in drag savings.

But you rarely need to hit your brakes if you are cornering fast! =)

I would think it more of a safety concern than a cornering disadvantage, but maybe with a big STI lever it isn't so bad.

actually running it on the rear but NOT the front for a road bike might be perfectly reasonable.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
actually running it on the rear but NOT the front for a road bike might be perfectly reasonable.


But why? Why when the options from Shimano, Campy and SRAM are so damn good?



----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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3 seconds!

Record10Carbon wrote:

Quote:
actually running it on the rear but NOT the front for a road bike might be perfectly reasonable.


But why? Why when the options from Shimano, Campy and SRAM are so damn good?




Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Um.......again.......did the rider take a dump (at the proper angle, that is 10lbs right?) right before the ride? Did he or she also trim their helmet straps?

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Both dump and non dump riders will save the 3 seconds.

Record10Carbon wrote:
Um.......again.......did the rider take a dump (at the proper angle, that is 10lbs right?) right before the ride? Did he or she also trim their helmet straps?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [nebmot] [ In reply to ]
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nebmot wrote:
Do you have one on the front too? Can you post pics of that? I am thinking of doing the same on my S3.

Here you go, although I technically haven't finished the front (my under stem cable stop is being shipped as we speak):




http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
3 seconds!

Record10Carbon wrote:

Quote:
actually running it on the rear but NOT the front for a road bike might be perfectly reasonable.



But why? Why when the options from Shimano, Campy and SRAM are so damn good?


Right ... think a little more clearly about ALL aspects of bike racing ...

I'll go admire my jersey I took home 2 days ago in my state road race without an aero brake (again, I left it on my TT bike where I managed only a silver) ;-)

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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rroof wrote:
Right ... think a little more clearly about ALL aspects of bike racing ...

Sure, I realize that a rear aero brake caliper by itself will likely never affect your placing in a road race.

But, you need a brake back there, and you don't really ever need to use it, so it might as well save you a couple grams of drag, eh?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
rroof wrote:

Right ... think a little more clearly about ALL aspects of bike racing ...


Sure, I realize that a rear aero brake caliper by itself will likely never affect your placing in a road race.

But, you need a brake back there, and you don't really ever need to use it, so it might as well save you a couple grams of drag, eh?

*hitting head against the wall*

I need a front wheel too, but I'm not running a front disc ... or a rear disc for that matter for a road race.

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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There you go, getting your abilities and the fact that 95% + of the aero problem is the rider in the way.

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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A front disc would be dangerous.
An omega rear isn't.


As for the rear disc, I would do it if not for peer pressure. Its actually safer, no skewers or derailleurs going into your spokes!

rroof wrote:
I need a front wheel too, but I'm not running a front disc ... or a rear disc for that matter for a road race.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Nice work, Tom!

I have two questions:

1) Are you concerned at all that the filing on the rear cable holder will weaken that piece?

2) What advantage does the Omega have over the Egg? Aero (besides the possible naked cable)? Leverage? Better modulation? Easier to adjust?

Cheers.

-Mike


"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Record10Carbon wrote:
There you go, getting your abilities and the fact that 95% + of the aero problem is the rider in the way.

compare the green, to the blue:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/...nthourrecord.svg.png



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Record10Carbon wrote:
I get it, I do. I love it...but what did that gain you over this?



That's not the question...the REAL question is what do I gain over THIS:



In reality, the Simkins on the rear mates up with the S5 much nicer than anything else...BUT, it has some drawbacks in that it wasn't designed for wide rims...centering and width adjustments are a bit of a pain.

That's something the Omega does much better. Plus, it allows me to have matching brakes front and rear :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jul 10, 12 10:00
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
A front disc would be dangerous.
An omega rear isn't.


As for the rear disc, I would do it if not for peer pressure. Its actually safer, no skewers or derailleurs going into your spokes!

rroof wrote:

I need a front wheel too, but I'm not running a front disc ... or a rear disc for that matter for a road race.

An there you have it ... a front wheel is "dangerous" but rear Omega is not. We have come full circle.

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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I don't understand what you are getting at.
What is dangerous about a rear omega?
or are you making some other point I do not understand?

rroof wrote:
An there you have it ... a front wheel is "dangerous" but rear Omega is not. We have come full circle.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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He's saying that stopping is important.
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Quel] [ In reply to ]
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Quel wrote:
He's saying that stopping is important.

Of course it is, and I generally agree with not using one up front for safety reasons. On the rear though you are going to have no problem getting 100% of your rear tire, which isn't much.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Quel] [ In reply to ]
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Quel wrote:
He's saying that stopping is important.

1) How is the leverage on the Omega?

2) How much leverage do you need on a rear brake before you lock up the wheel?


"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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rroof wrote:
Would you really run these on a road bike in a crit/road race? Ugh.


In a hearbeat...no question.

rroof wrote:
I have an Omega on the front of my P3-SL and it is great, but the modulation/stopping power is awful compared with any other top tiered brake (Red/Force, DA/Ultegra, etc.). I'd likely LOSE time/watts in a pack/cornering than in drag savings. Love the design though.


Really? Are you running the Koolstop pads? I find that there is WAY more than enough power...in fact, on the rear I can easily lock up and skid the tire if I want to do so. I have no issues with the modulation.

I noticed that there's a bit of a "soft" lever feel with these brakes. That's actually a function of their high leverage. In fact, I recommended to Nick that he might want to change the wedge curve slightly to curve outward as the brake pads press against the rim. This would actually reduce the leverage but give it a more "firm" lever feel when the brakes are engaged. edit: But, that's really just a "feel" thing, and not a performance thing...


rroof wrote:
Carry on if the S5 is your TT rig.


Yes...it is that too :-)

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ing=s5%20tt;#3761058

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jul 10, 12 10:02
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Record10Carbon wrote:
And the past comes back to haunt us....



BTW, the mechanism actuating that brake and the Omega are completely different...and so is the performance. Design and performance-wise, the Omega is closer to the brake pictured below (which have always been known as excellent performers) than it is to the Campy Delta:



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
3 seconds!

Record10Carbon wrote:

Quote:
actually running it on the rear but NOT the front for a road bike might be perfectly reasonable.



But why? Why when the options from Shimano, Campy and SRAM are so damn good?



I would argue it saves no time at all, considering the rear brake position was intentionally shielded by Cervelo witht he seatstays. Now there's a huge gap in between the stays and the rear brake, allowing airflow to separate there at yaw. I would say you LOSE time with going with the Omega rather than the Simkins
Last edited by: justkeepedaling: Jul 10, 12 10:25
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [justkeepedaling] [ In reply to ]
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Possibly, there is plenty of gap with a normal caliper too though.

justkeepedaling wrote:
I would argue it saves no time at all, considering the rear brake position was intentionally shielded by Cervelo witht he seatstays. Now there's a huge gap in between the stays and the rear brake, allowing airflow to separate there at yaw



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [justkeepedaling] [ In reply to ]
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justkeepedaling wrote:
jackmott wrote:
3 seconds!

Record10Carbon wrote:

Quote:
actually running it on the rear but NOT the front for a road bike might be perfectly reasonable.



But why? Why when the options from Shimano, Campy and SRAM are so damn good?



I would argue it saves no time at all, considering the rear brake position was intentionally shielded by Cervelo witht he seatstays. Now there's a huge gap in between the stays and the rear brake, allowing airflow to separate there at yaw. I would say you LOSE time with going with the Omega rather than the Simkins


Don't forget that the rear brake housing is brought in closer to the bike centerline...and, I eventually plan on using some Nokon housing back there and bring the housing right down the trailing edge.

So...there could be a bit of savings compared to a sidepull design (including the Simkins) from that.

However, any potential time savings from mounting the Omega back there was pretty far down on my reasons for doing so.

I also have been contemplating making a custom S5 brake mounting plate that would fill that gap :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jul 10, 12 10:48
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
Record10Carbon wrote:
And the past comes back to haunt us....




BTW, the mechanism actuating that brake and the Omega are completely different...and so is the performance. Design and performance-wise, the Omega is closer to the brake pictured below (which have always been known as excellent performers) than it is to the Campy Delta:


Or, more like this:


http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Still - how many of you are winning, or not at a race by 3 seconds?

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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remember tom and I are TT junkies.
happens all the time.

plus, you do 10 things to save 3 seconds.
that is 30 seconds!

I missed a state championship a couple weeks ago by 16 seconds :(


Record10Carbon wrote:
Still - how many of you are winning, or not at a race by 3 seconds?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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You have no idea what I would pay to see the bikes of the guys who beat you...

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Record10Carbon wrote:
Still - how many of you are winning, or not at a race by 3 seconds?

Happens all the time...


Record10Carbon wrote:
You have no idea what I would pay to see the bikes of the guys who beat you...


Right...and the point you're trying to make is that the motor matters, right? We get that. Both matter.

But, as MOPMike likes to quote me in his sig line:

"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.





http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
Here they are:


Record10Carbon wrote:
You have no idea what I would pay to see the bikes of the guys who beat you...

Oh the shame, it looks like you got beat by triathletes.

_______________________________________________
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Idiots - that is where you make certain that they cant hold your wheel - period. Cross the road, jam your brakes, get them the hell off of you - and what was the start time split?

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [Record10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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What?
It was a team time trial, that is their team.

Record10Carbon wrote:
Idiots - that is where you make certain that they cant hold your wheel - period. Cross the road, jam your brakes, get them the hell off of you - and what was the start time split?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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MOP_Mike wrote:
Nice work, Tom!

I have two questions:

1) Are you concerned at all that the filing on the rear cable holder will weaken that piece?

Not really...all of the material removed was above the narrowest point of the holder, which is where the highest stresses would be anyway.


MOP_Mike wrote:
2) What advantage does the Omega have over the Egg? Aero (besides the possible naked cable)? Leverage? Better modulation? Easier to adjust?

On the rear, the cable housing brought into centerline and the brake being easier to adjust for varying rim widths (my TT rims are narrow and my road rims are wide) were the 2 big reasons. Thirdly was to match the brake on the front :-)

According to AC's mini-tunnel test, the Omega is slightly more aero than the Egg on a fork.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Omega on the rear of an S5 [bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like Ironman Florida.
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