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Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan
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riltri
Jul 9, 12 16:53
Post #1 of 55
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Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan
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That should get the good ole economy primed!!
TheForge
Jul 9, 12 18:00
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [riltri]
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I thought this was a thread about the porno. Obamas stimulus plan.
morey000
Jul 9, 12 18:30
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [riltri]
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A little skewed, dontcha' think?
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy.
or was this just pogey bait for people like me. Really- this should be in that category of too stupid to respond to.
patf
Jul 9, 12 19:02
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [riltri]
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That 55% estate taxes is the one I find ridiculous. I've already paid income taxes on this money, and having worked and saved all my life they want to take 55% This is classism at its worst. How shameful of the government to basically steal my money that I have saved for my children and grand children.
As for the other rates, I'd be willing to pay them after the government goes on a big cost cutting spree. But raise my taxes at the same time you are constently adding to programs.
blueraider_mike
Jul 10, 12 3:36
Post #5 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [morey000]
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morey000 wrote:
A little skewed, dontcha' think?
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy.
or was this just pogey bait for people like me. Really- this should be in that category of too stupid to respond to.
I just don't thing "we can afford" tax breaks for those less than 250K...We have a 1.5T deficit.
morey000
Jul 10, 12 4:47
Post #6 of 55
(1419 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [blueraider_mike]
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blueraider_mike wrote:
morey000 wrote:
A little skewed, dontcha' think?
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy.
or was this just pogey bait for people like me. Really- this should be in that category of too stupid to respond to.
I just don't thing "we can afford" tax breaks for those less than 250K...We have a 1.5T deficit.
According to the CBO, Romney's economic plan has a significantly higher deficit.
chainpin
Jul 10, 12 4:48
Post #7 of 55
(1417 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [riltri]
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This is why Obama will lose in November.
It's a political gamble, but one that will fail.
And let's be clear, all his huffing and puffing about reducing the deficit is horseshit.
These increases won't raise jack shit in terms of revenue relative to what is being spent by his socialist regime these days.
In fact, I say raise these taxes, I dare you Soetoro.
"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06
(This post was
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by chainpin on Jul 10, 12 4:50)
Old Hickory
Jul 10, 12 5:46
Post #8 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [riltri]
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Why is another plan needed? I was told the $900 billion plan passed by a super majority of Democrats in February of 2009 would be "cure all" to our sour economy. I remember it needed passing without debate and that shovel ready jobs were waiting to begin.
morey000
Jul 10, 12 6:08
Post #9 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [Old Hickory]
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Old Hickory wrote:
Why is another plan needed? I was told the $900 billion plan passed by a super majority of Democrats in February of 2009 would be "cure all" to our sour economy. I remember it needed passing without debate and that shovel ready jobs were waiting to begin.
I can't wait to get back to a GOP economy. Things were so much better then.
justgeorge
Jul 10, 12 6:20
Post #10 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [morey000]
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I can't wait to get back to a GOP economy. Things were so much better then.
Been a long time since we've had a "GOP Economy" as you call it. The Bush economy that Obama keeps blaming things on was driven by the Dems who were in charge of both the House and the Senate. And yes, Bush didn't veto any spending IIRC, so he gets his share of the blame.
Bring back Bill Clinton and the GOP-lead House and Senate, that was the last time we had any fiscal responsibility.
chainpin
Jul 10, 12 6:29
Post #11 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [justgeorge]
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justgeorge wrote:
I can't wait to get back to a GOP economy. Things were so much better then.
Been a long time since we've had a "GOP Economy" as you call it. The Bush economy that Obama keeps blaming things on was driven by the Dems who were in charge of both the House and the Senate. And yes, Bush didn't veto any spending IIRC, so he gets his share of the blame.
Bring back Bill Clinton and the GOP-lead House and Senate, that was the last time we had any fiscal responsibility.
Nah, that was a mirage economy driven by the tech bubble, Greenspan's low rate policy (a total disaster), and MEW (mortgage equity withdrawals), which artificially boosted tax revenues leading to a small surplus.
We are paying for all our past mistakes--and will be for a long time.
Our problems are so deeply rooted in our debt fuled economy, that no political figure is going to be able to jack fucking shit to right this ship.
We are going down.
"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06
dave_w
Jul 10, 12 7:44
Post #12 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [riltri]
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This new tax push is a winner in the polls, and that's something Obama needs to grab on to, given how poor the surrounding economic realities are. The linked to article below gives quick overview to some of what Obama has, and has not, done re the economy.
"WASHINGTON -- One would think, given so much practice, that the Obama White House would have been better prepared for last week's wretched jobs report.
Instead, we witnessed the five stages of bad public relations. Delusion: It was a "step in the right direction." Dismissiveness: Don't "read too much into any one monthly report." Grudging acceptance: "It's still tough out there." Cliché: "There are no quick fixes." Self-pity: "I suspect that most people in Cincinnati would acknowledge that I've tried real hard."
I suspect that most people in Cincinnati and elsewhere would prefer an economic strategy that consists of something more than blame shifting and the systematic lowering of expectations.
Obama's economic agenda is debilitated by a political problem. Announcing an ambitious new set of policy proposals would be an admission that previous approaches were insufficient -- that the economy is not moving in the right direction. But winning re-election during a serious labor market recession is no easy task.
Up to this point, Obama has successfully finessed the issue -- recalling the initial challenges he faced, urging patience and criticizing congressional obstruction on a series of incremental reforms. At some point, however, claiming to be a victim of fate just appears feeble. Patience takes on the air of complacency. And the lowering of expectations seems more like the acceptance of permanent decline -- a new normal less ambitious and optimistic than the old.
Obama's economic message is currently premised on the denial of a crisis. But last month -- three years into an anemic recovery -- more American workers went on Social Security disability (85,000) than got jobs (80,000). Hispanic unemployment is at nearly 11 percent; African-American unemployment at about 14 percent. In any other political circumstance, the Democratic Party would be seized with urgency. A McCain administration would be seeing preparations for a union-sponsored Labor Day march on Washington demanding jobs, jobs, jobs. The Obama administration, in contrast, gets some muted criticism from Robert Reich, who argues for "large and bold things to turn the economy around."
But it is not clear what such things might be. Given the federal budget crisis, prospects are poor for major new stimulus spending or backfilling state and local budgets. While the jobs number for June was bad, it was probably not bad enough to result in another round of quantitative easing when the Federal Reserve meets late this month. So Obama is left with a series of smaller-scale proposals -- maintaining existing middle-class tax breaks, spending on infrastructure, funding some jobs for teachers -- that no self-respecting Keynesian economist would judge sufficient."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/...n_denial_114744.html
TheForge
Jul 10, 12 7:48
Post #13 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [justgeorge]
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justgeorge wrote:
I can't wait to get back to a GOP economy. Things were so much better then.
Been a long time since we've had a "GOP Economy" as you call it. The Bush economy that Obama keeps blaming things on was driven by the Dems who were in charge of both the House and the Senate. And yes, Bush didn't veto any spending IIRC, so he gets his share of the blame.
Bring back Bill Clinton and the GOP-lead House and Senate, that was the last time we had any fiscal responsibility
.
+1
riltri
Jul 10, 12 8:30
Post #14 of 55
(1316 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [morey000]
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morey000 wrote:
A little skewed, dontcha' think?
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy.
or was this just pogey bait for people like me.
Really- this should be in that category of too stupid to respond to.
Really- this should be in that category of too stupid to respond to
You are referring to your reply...correct?? ;)
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy
I'm curious, do you know any poor people who create jobs?
Duffy
Jul 10, 12 8:43
Post #15 of 55
(1309 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [TheForge]
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TheForge wrote:
I thought this was a thread about the porno. Obamas stimulus plan.
No kidding. WTF? The economy is going gangbusters. Private sector is making money hand over fist. The fed has been drastically cutting spending and it's time for those greedy Americans to start paying up.
____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
blueraider_mike
Jul 10, 12 9:53
Post #16 of 55
(1285 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [morey000]
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morey000 wrote:
blueraider_mike wrote:
morey000 wrote:
A little skewed, dontcha' think?
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy.
or was this just pogey bait for people like me. Really- this should be in that category of too stupid to respond to.
I just don't thing "we can afford" tax breaks for those less than 250K...We have a 1.5T deficit.
According to the CBO, Romney's economic plan has a significantly higher deficit.
Not sure about Romney's plan - in general he is up for a lot of reform which is impossible for CBO to score. Meanwhile, Obama's budgets are soundly defeated. But their are conservative congressmen and Senators that have presented multiple plans that move us in the right direction. Heck, even the Bowles Simpson plan does it; meanwhile Obama doesn't have a plan. Hell, even Obamacare isn't his healthcare plan, he pushed for it didn't really have a clue what was in it, really. I just find it funny that Obama who blames Bush economics (Bush Tax cuts) and then continues to move them forward - Obama is an empty shirt. He is a cult figure, any other man in his position would be 15-20 points down - H. Clinton or some other D would be challenging anyone with his record, I cannot for the life of me understand why he is supported so much by those on the left.
morey000
Jul 10, 12 9:53
Post #17 of 55
(1285 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [riltri]
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riltri wrote:
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy
I'm curious, do you know any poor people who create jobs?
Reality check. The economy grows when you have a strong middle class. Not when you have a handful of rich people and a bifurcated system.
your bumpersticker politics ain't cutting it here.
dave_w
Jul 10, 12 9:57
Post #18 of 55
(1282 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [morey000]
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morey000 wrote:
riltri wrote:
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy
I'm curious, do you know any poor people who create jobs?
Reality check. The economy grows when you have a strong middle class. Not when you have a handful of rich people and a bifurcated system.
your bumpersticker politics ain't cutting it here.
...and a lot of the job producers are small business middle class folks, a group that is being pinched by Obama policy as much or more as the big guys. Nevertheless, feel free to keep saying it's Bush's fault..
chainpin
Jul 10, 12 10:59
Post #19 of 55
(1258 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [dave_w]
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dave_w wrote:
morey000 wrote:
riltri wrote:
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy
I'm curious, do you know any poor people who create jobs?
Reality check. The economy grows when you have a strong middle class. Not when you have a handful of rich people and a bifurcated system.
your bumpersticker politics ain't cutting it here.
...and a lot of the job producers are small business middle class folks, a group that is being pinched by Obama policy as much or more as the big guys. Nevertheless, feel free to keep saying it's Bush's fault..
Oh come on Dave, its not like small business optimisim is in the shitter or anything these days....err...oops, guess I messed that up huh?
http://thehill.com/...imism-takes-a-tumble
Small-business owners grew more
pessimistic
in June, according to an industry index, in just the latest sign that the economic recovery has slowed.
The National Federation of Independent Business said Tuesday that its small-business optimism index plunged three points, to 91.4, in June, wiping away incremental growth from earlier this year and dropping the index back to roughly its October 2011 level.
A three point drop is quite a lot, but just look at the outlook for revenues, which got crushed by 7 points.
"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06
MJuric
Jul 10, 12 12:58
Post #20 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [chainpin]
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Unlike many other recessions small business start ups are also in decline as a percentage of employment and has been since ~1984. Normally you see a significant spike post a recession. So far not the case this time around.
HERE
is a link to some of the data.
As small business faces more global competition, more regulation, more burden and more taxes at nearly every level it becomes more and more desirable to be an employee and not an owner.
~Matt
riltri
Jul 10, 12 13:06
Post #21 of 55
(1226 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [morey000]
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morey000 wrote:
riltri wrote:
Those rates only apply to the wealthy and very wealthy
I'm curious, do you know any poor people who create jobs?
Reality check.
The economy grows when you have a strong middle class
. Not when you have a handful of rich people and a bifurcated system.
your bumpersticker politics ain't cutting it here.
And exactly how do we get a strong middle class? Seriously, do you think it's by increasing taxes on those that hire the middle class? If you want a strong middle class you need business owners and the evil rich to invest. If taxes go up, what happens to investments? That's right, investments go down.
I own my own company and will be effected by several of Obumers proposed tax hikes. I can assure you that if they are implemented, it will decrease how much I plow back into my company. Do you seriously not understand that????
Glade Runner
Jul 10, 12 15:54
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [chainpin]
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chainpin wrote:
justgeorge wrote:
I can't wait to get back to a GOP economy. Things were so much better then.
Been a long time since we've had a "GOP Economy" as you call it. The Bush economy that Obama keeps blaming things on was driven by the Dems who were in charge of both the House and the Senate. And yes, Bush didn't veto any spending IIRC, so he gets his share of the blame.
Bring back Bill Clinton and the GOP-lead House and Senate, that was the last time we had any fiscal responsibility.
Nah, that was a mirage economy driven by the tech bubble, Greenspan's low rate policy (a total disaster), and MEW (mortgage equity withdrawals), which artificially boosted tax revenues leading to a small surplus.
We are paying for all our past mistakes--and will be for a long time.
Our problems are so deeply rooted in our debt fuled economy, that no political figure is going to be able to jack fucking shit to right this ship.
We are going down.
...and Janet Reno summoning mortgage lenders and informing them "There will be investigations!!" (...if you don't start writing sub-prime mortgages to people who have no earthly chance of
ever
repaying them.) Yeah, predatory lenders.
Edit to add: Yes, methinks we
are
going down. Like a drunk prom queen. Like Obama on Reggie Love. Like Chris Matthews on Obama. Going. Down.
(This post was
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by Glade Runner on Jul 10, 12 16:13)
morey000
Jul 10, 12 17:51
Post #23 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [riltri]
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riltri wrote:
And exactly how do we get a strong middle class? Seriously, do you think it's by increasing taxes on those that hire the middle class? If you want a strong middle class you need business owners and the evil rich to invest. If taxes go up, what happens to investments? That's right, investments go down.
I own my own company and will be effected by several of Obumers proposed tax hikes. I can assure you that if they are implemented, it will decrease how much I plow back into my company. Do you seriously not understand that????
I understand it. I just disagree with it- perhaps not for you personally, but for our economy in general. Given the extreme income disparity we have in the US right now- I don't believe that the 'top down' method is the right direction. Instead- I believe that we need to grow middle america, not put more money in rich pockets. I want to create more customers for your business.
Back when we lowered the cap gains tax to 15% to encourage investment- it may have made sense. But these days, companies (overall, not necessarily yours) are flush with cash but are not investing it to grow- because there's no market for their products. You see- it's not a one solution fits all problems kinda' thing. That's what's wrong with leading with ideology. One needs to look at the current situation and respond to it.
anyway- here's an overview everything Obama has done — and wants to do — on taxes
http://wapo.st/Mg0QVv
(This post was
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by morey000 on Jul 10, 12 19:12)
AnthonyS
Jul 10, 12 22:35
Post #24 of 55
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Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [morey000]
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morey000 wrote:
riltri wrote:
And exactly how do we get a strong middle class? Seriously, do you think it's by increasing taxes on those that hire the middle class? If you want a strong middle class you need business owners and the evil rich to invest. If taxes go up, what happens to investments? That's right, investments go down.
I own my own company and will be effected by several of Obumers proposed tax hikes. I can assure you that if they are implemented, it will decrease how much I plow back into my company. Do you seriously not understand that????
I understand it. I just disagree with it- perhaps not for you personally, but for our economy in general. Given the extreme income disparity we have in the US right now- I don't believe that the 'top down' method is the right direction. Instead- I believe that we need to grow middle america, not put more money in rich pockets. I want to create more customers for your business.
Back when we lowered the cap gains tax to 15% to encourage investment- it may have made sense. But these days, companies (overall, not necessarily yours) are flush with cash but are not investing it to grow- because there's no market for their products. You see- it's not a one solution fits all problems kinda' thing. That's what's wrong with leading with ideology. One needs to look at the current situation and respond to it.
anyway- here's an overview everything Obama has done — and wants to do — on taxes
http://wapo.st/Mg0QVv
What you and Barry and all the other Socialists fail to understand is that your behavior discourages work and rewards sloth. You take from the hard working and give to the lazy idiots that contribute nothing. Then more people give up and quit and become stupid lazy non contributors too. Then you need more money to coddle them too. Well when the rest of the working people quit their jobs, and stop paying taxes because they won't have any income, what is the plan then?
I'm all for paying more in taxes, but only if I get more for my money. But since education is in the shitter, there are tons of homeless, tons of overpaid underworked government employees, and the infrastructure is crumbling, I say fuck tax increases.
Giving more money to the federal government is just like giving crack to a crackhead. Nothing good can come of it.
If I let regular people keep more of their money, they might hire someone else or set up a soup kitchen and actually fix a real problem. But you know best don/t you money000? That's the real problem with communist pinko socialist mother fuckers. You actually think you know better than I do what I need. What I need is for you and everyone like you to disappear or un-fuck your grey matter.
Communism doesn't work, because for everyone to eat, someone actually has to do some farming. We can't all sit on our asses all day long and expect to eat. Someone has to do the work, and once the rewards for working are a net negative no one will work. So keep telling the lazy stupid idiotic voting majority (which is the real problem in the US), that you are going to steal from the rich and give to them. I'll give you a hint. If you took every penny from every earner making more than 250K, you couldn't fund your pinko commie dream for even one year. Do the math, retard.
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You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.
morey000
Jul 11, 12 5:08
Post #25 of 55
(1107 views)
Re: Obama's Economic Stimulus Plan [AnthonyS]
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So let me see if I understand you.
If capital gains taxes are 15% and the maximum rate is 36%- it's capitalism
but if Cap Gains taxes are 20% and the max rate is 39%- we're pinko fascist socialist commies?
I think you're read too many Ayn Rand books.
Me - I have no convictions of being a liberal or a conservative, a socialist or a capitalist. I just want a system that works the best for the most people and creates a happy, productive society. Show me an example of a modern, post industrial society that fits your model- and then perhaps I'll believe. But- there are none. There's a reason why there are none. The model doesn't work. You want small gov't and low taxes? Live in Somalia or Haiti.
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