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Mooseman climbs
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TheBeek
May 15, 12 17:00
Post #1 of 38
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Mooseman climbs
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I know this has been covered in previous threads, I've read them, but can't seem to figure out where things stand as of right now.
It looks to me like back to 2009, Mooseman's worst climb was devil's hill (or el diablo or whatever), but that this climb was replaced in more recent years with what people call moosezilla. Is the 2012 race course the same as 2010, 2011?
People describe this new course as other-wordly in terms of its brutality, so I want to be prepared.
I'm currently on a compact with a 25 in back (Cervelo P2 stock).
JoeO
May 15, 12 17:29
Post #2 of 38
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Re: Mooseman climbs [calsbeek]
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In 2010 the course was changed to include the climb up North Groton Road. It is quite nasty and you have to climb it twice. The current map indicates that that it has not changed. There is also a screaming descent afterward
I would recommend a 27 or 28 in back, even with a compact crank. You'll make it up without it but you'll be very happy if you bring it.
The good news is that the run is easy
PlacidPirate
May 15, 12 17:46
Post #3 of 38
(1575 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [calsbeek]
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raced it for four years on a 25 rear (both new and old course)....can do it on a 25.....but twice with other good legit hills a 27-28 would make things nicer.. dont stress too muc if you are from the NE.
So depressed Im missing it this year.
devashish_paul
May 15, 12 18:32
Post #4 of 38
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Re: Mooseman climbs [JoeO]
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I confirmed with Audra that course is identical to 2010 and 2011. There are not that many courses around, especially on the WTC circuit with "signature features" like the Moosezilla climb :-). As JoeO said, I'd go 34x27. Sure, you can manage with 39x25, but 34x27 makes the pacing much more manageable especially if you are 4W per kilo FTP or less. If you are in the 4.5 category, then fire away with your 39x25.
If I have it correct, there is >3000 feet of climbing on this course, but realistically it is concentrated in approximately 4 climbs (2x Moosezilla and 2x main highway heading south). There is some elevation elsewhere on the course, but they are small rollers. Basically you are climbing Alpe d'Huez split up over 4 chunks, two of which are steeper than Alpe d'Huez, 2 of which are slightly less steep.
To put it in perspective, my Mooseman bike splits (2:46, 2:51) are slightly slower than my 3 attempts at Wildflower and 3 trips to St. Croix. (2:43-2:47 range for those 6 races)
Dev
cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013
Mrdavidalex
May 15, 12 18:55
Post #5 of 38
(1537 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [devashish_paul]
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devashish_paul wrote:
I confirmed with Audra that course is identical to 2010 and 2011. There are not that many courses around, especially on the WTC circuit with "signature features" like the Moosezilla climb :-). As JoeO said, I'd go 34x27. Sure, you can manage with 39x25, but 34x27 makes the pacing much more manageable especially if you are 4W per kilo FTP or less. If you are in the 4.5 category, then fire away with your 39x25.
If I have it correct, there is >3000 feet of climbing on this course, but realistically it is concentrated in approximately 4 climbs (2x Moosezilla and 2x main highway heading south). There is some elevation elsewhere on the course, but they are small rollers. Basically you are climbing Alpe d'Huez split up over 4 chunks, two of which are steeper than Alpe d'Huez, 2 of which are slightly less steep.
To put it in perspective, my Mooseman bike splits (2:46, 2:51) are slightly slower than my 3 attempts at Wildflower and 3 trips to St. Croix. (2:43-2:47 range for those 6 races)
Dev
Dev-How do you attack the bike course? I am planning on going pretty slow on those hills then hammer the rest.
devashish_paul
May 15, 12 19:09
Post #6 of 38
(1531 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [Mrdavidalex]
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Best to hammer the run and hold back a touch for the entire bike. The bike course would otherwise hammer your run before you get to hammer the run if you know what I mean. There are some hills where it is hard to keep the power down, but still, it is best to throttle back. I'm not one to talk.....both years, my run split has been very very bad, but the last 2 years, I raced a half marathon the weekend before. This year, I won't race a half marathon, on the other hand I'm just getting some run legs back, so I doubt I can pull of anything heroic anyway, even if I'm a total tourist on the bike.
The best thing you can do before the Mooseman bike is lose weight :-(
cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013
Newyorkfan21
May 15, 12 19:16
Post #7 of 38
(1526 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [devashish_paul]
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+1 on losing weight.
Haven't done Mooseman yet but I plan on attacking most of the bike; in regards to the hill I am going to "take it easy" on the first loop and attack the first desend and see how I feel. I've been biking more and more than ever so its going to be hard for me to "take it easy" on the first loop. Was going to race a 1/2 marathon the weekend before....but now I decieded against it. I want to be fresh for this race.....I am hoping people are going to be gassed on the run cause that is where my real strength is.
Btw I am going with a stock P2 not changing the cassette.......
GL out there....what age groups you guys in?
Mrdavidalex
May 15, 12 19:34
Post #8 of 38
(1515 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [Newyorkfan21]
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35-39
Can I lose 10 lbs the next 3 weeks?!
jimruns
May 16, 12 2:35
Post #9 of 38
(1485 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [devashish_paul]
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I had 1085m of climbing on my garmin from last year.. so agree something over 3000 ft.
Kevinschus
May 16, 12 3:43
Post #10 of 38
(1461 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [JoeO]
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Anyone familiar with the international distance bike course? From what I hear there's no insane climbs just looking for a better idea of what I'm up against. Good luck to you guys racing the 70.3
TheBeek
May 16, 12 4:39
Post #11 of 38
(1442 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [Newyorkfan21]
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also 35-39
looking for a cassette with a 27....anyone out there with a used shimano?
konaexpress
May 16, 12 5:14
Post #12 of 38
(1433 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [devashish_paul]
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Weight trumps aero on this course. Last year I had a 27 on the back. This year I will have a 28 (don't know if it will make much difference, but every little bit helps). I don't think it will get me up the climbs any faster, but should be a little easier on the legs. Be prepared to do 2 X 20:00 - 25:00 of non-stop uphill climbing on Moosezilla.
Barry Dmitruk 31 X IM Finisher / 7 X Kona Finisher
Sponsored by:
http://www.facebook.com/...leans.cycles?fref=ts
IM Mont Tremblant 70.3 2013; IM USA Lake Placid 2013
Newyorkfan21
May 16, 12 7:58
Post #13 of 38
(1369 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [Mrdavidalex]
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Mrdavidalex wrote:
35-39
Can I lose 10 lbs the next 3 weeks?!
Sure 10 pounds in 3 weeks no problem at all!
Same AG 35-39; looks like we are competitors ;0)
Good Luck to everyone
konaexpress
May 16, 12 8:28
Post #14 of 38
(1342 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [konaexpress]
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Oh, 50-54.......
Barry Dmitruk 31 X IM Finisher / 7 X Kona Finisher
Sponsored by:
http://www.facebook.com/...leans.cycles?fref=ts
IM Mont Tremblant 70.3 2013; IM USA Lake Placid 2013
dalestephanos
May 16, 12 8:35
Post #15 of 38
(1337 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [konaexpress]
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konaexpress wrote:
Weight trumps aero on this course. Last year I had a 27 on the back. This year I will have a 28 (don't know if it will make much difference, but every little bit helps). I don't think it will get me up the climbs any faster, but should be a little easier on the legs. Be prepared to do 2 X 20:00 - 25:00 of non-stop uphill climbing on Moosezilla.
I've been wondering about this. I used to train in NH and Groton road (Locals call it the dump road) was in the middle of a nightmarish 6 hour loop we'd do. I wonder if I'd be better off using my nice light R3 instead of the fast P3. #thethingssuburbanwhitemengetstressedabout
konaexpress
May 16, 12 8:39
Post #16 of 38
(1332 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [dalestephanos]
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I cannot offer any advice there, as I am not familiar with either bike.
Barry Dmitruk 31 X IM Finisher / 7 X Kona Finisher
Sponsored by:
http://www.facebook.com/...leans.cycles?fref=ts
IM Mont Tremblant 70.3 2013; IM USA Lake Placid 2013
k89533720
May 16, 12 15:20
Post #17 of 38
(1277 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [Mrdavidalex]
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I am attempting to do the same thing right now! -10lbs would be fantastic for mooseman!
TallTris
May 16, 12 17:22
Post #18 of 38
(1250 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [calsbeek]
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Just looked at my power file for last year's Moose race. Mr. Joule tells me that it was 4200 feet of total climbing, and my split was just over 3:00, with a NP of 215 and average of 188 (a lot of 0 Watts descending). My weight that day was about 181 (No, I'm not fat - just tall).
The 2 big climbs are each about 850-900 feet, and the lesser climbs are only about 350 feet (2x) plus a bunch of smaller stuff that adds up to a lot of shifting. On the big climbs, the power file shows repeated excursions into the 325W to 350W range and sometimes up to 425W for short periods. I ran a 34x28 setup, and it was still a lot of work the second time around on the big climb. I was glad to be done with the bike that day.
JoeO
May 16, 12 17:25
Post #19 of 38
(1243 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [dalestephanos]
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dalestephanos wrote:
konaexpress wrote:
Weight trumps aero on this course. Last year I had a 27 on the back. This year I will have a 28 (don't know if it will make much difference, but every little bit helps). I don't think it will get me up the climbs any faster, but should be a little easier on the legs. Be prepared to do 2 X 20:00 - 25:00 of non-stop uphill climbing on Moosezilla.
I've been wondering about this. I used to train in NH and Groton road (Locals call it the dump road) was in the middle of a nightmarish 6 hour loop we'd do. I wonder if I'd be better off using my nice light R3 instead of the fast P3. #thethingssuburbanwhitemengetstressedabout
Use the aero bike. Weight does not trump aero on this course (though I suspect konaexpress is merely using a bit of hyperbole there for effect)
vwkismet
May 16, 12 19:25
Post #20 of 38
(1212 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [Newyorkfan21]
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Newyorkfan21 wrote:
+1 on losing weight.
Haven't done Mooseman yet but I plan on attacking most of the bike; in regards to the hill I am going to "take it easy" on the first loop and
attack the first desend
and see how I feel. I've been biking more and more than ever so its going to be hard for me to "take it easy" on the first loop. Was going to race a 1/2 marathon the weekend before....but now I decieded against it. I want to be fresh for this race.....I am hoping people are going to be gassed on the run cause that is where my real strength is.
Btw I am going with a stock P2 not changing the cassette.......
GL out there....what age groups you guys in?
I'm sure relative to the field you can "attack" if you are a strong biker and have big stones, but having only driven this route I can't imagine going very hard on the descent. Much of the descent is along a winding mountain stream with guardrail and likely death on one side (if you leave the road) and sharp mountain walls on the other. The turns are significant and without intimately knowing the route it would be hard to safely go into them hard. There is also a more than 90 deg. turn at the base of one of the hills. It is steep enough that you could not simply coast in the aero bars - you are going to have to ride the brakes at times.
This is not meant to dampen your enthusiasm. I think it looks like fun to ride, but try to drive it ahead of time to see where you can reasonably go hard on the descent. The people I know who have done it are more concerned with the descent than the climbs!
devashish_paul
May 16, 12 19:41
Post #21 of 38
(1204 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [vwkismet]
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I'll add one more thing. Threre is a big speed differential on the descent. On loop 1 if you are a young rider, who is a timid decender, there will be older riders who are strong descenders passing. Likewise if you are strong older descender, there will be many younger riders 3 abreast riding the brakes in front. If you are a strong rider, on loop2, you will be passing riders from other waves on loop1 on the descent. There is also a speed/no pass zone on the descent to account for all of this.
It's not congested, but with the potential for some riders to be at 45 mph and others riding the brakes at 25 mph, we all need to be prudent. In year, 1, I did not see why they had to have a speed zone because for some reason at the moment I was descending I had a clear shot and there was really no one in my "line". In year 2 on loop 1, I had a lot of congestion on the descent...perhaps in year 2, I simply swam 5 minutes lower putting me behind more traffic than year 1. But you guys generally get the picture. There is nothing inherently difficult on the descent where the speed zone it. Its just the possiblity of speed differentials that makes it dangerous. The most difficult part is actually the first hard right hand turn after the crest of the climb. I found that much more dangerous than the sweeping part of the descent that has the speed zone.
Dev
cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013
jonnydubaya
May 16, 12 19:53
Post #22 of 38
(1199 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [devashish_paul]
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I've seen the mapmyride data, but I don't trust that...because last weekend, I went on a ride in an unfamiliar area....The ride was supposed to have 10% max, and I encountered a 15-20%wall that lasted a long time.
What types of % gradient would be expected on the big climbs? sustained, average...etc.
Newyorkfan21
May 16, 12 20:01
Post #23 of 38
(1195 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [vwkismet]
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thx for the heads up bro
devashish_paul
May 16, 12 20:14
Post #24 of 38
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Re: Mooseman climbs [jonnydubaya]
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On the Moosezilla, there is mainly 6-10% with a few short stretches of 16%. I don't recall anything that even remotely resembles 20% as I've done some climbs where it goes over 20 (ex: Beast in St. Croix). Nothing that steep. On Moosezilla you are alternating between standing and sitting, but when you are standing, you're likely going well above 100% FTP, more like 120% minimum for short sections of 50meters at a time. Just make sure your smallest gear is working and it does not slip under high crank/hub torque scenarios.
cannondale.com |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 6/7 2013, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2013
Mrdavidalex
May 17, 12 7:37
Post #25 of 38
(1154 views)
Re: Mooseman climbs [devashish_paul]
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Anyone going for a Vegas slot or Lake Placid entry? i wonder what time will be need to qualify for one of these this year. If I can get sub 5(~4:55), do I stand a chance getting one of these in the 35-39 age group (Male)? I imagine the Lake Placid slots will roll down...I bet some of the competitive age groupers are already signed up for it. Thoughts?
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