Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

I picked a Ph.D. program for next year
Quote | Reply
I am going to Oregon State University to study mathematics education.

I just got back from a trip ... nice place. Lots of green. Very cycling friendly, so now I will have NO excuse (except being busy with school, which is the one I use now).

Finding schools, applying, waiting to hear back, visiting, and choosing has been a long process ... I am glad it's done. I can move from this nest to a new nest and avoid the real world for at least four more years. HA :D

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congratulations!
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Now that is coast to coast young lady

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Go Beavs!
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
my uncle (now retired) was big in math ed, wrote lots of books on the topic and traveled the world (one would not think math ed peeps would trot the globe)

anyways, here in WI, it looks like public teachers are going to lose any pay raises for acquiring adv. degrees or PD (and perhaps lose salary raises already acquired from adv degrees) - and if Gov. Walker survives recall, this will likely be passed in other states. You might consider avoiding any efforts involving adv degrees in Education and stick with developing undergraduate programs - or like my uncle, wrote math books for High Schoolers
-
Last edited by: LorenzoP: Apr 30, 12 14:46
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wow, big change. I think you'll like it there.

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congrats Ms. Chik. Phd program was my favorite time in life. Cool location too.


****************

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [LorenzoP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
my uncle (now retired) was big in math ed, wrote lots of books on the topic and traveled the world (one would not think math ed peeps would trot the globe)

anyways, here in WI, it looks like public teachers are going to lose any pay raises for acquiring adv. degrees or PD (and perhaps lose salary raises already acquired from adv degrees) - and if Gov. Walker survives recall, this will likely be passed in other states. You might consider avoiding any efforts involving adv degrees in Education and stick with developing undergraduate programs - or like my uncle, wrote math books for High Schoolers


I intend to stay in academia/ college-level math.


PM me your uncle's name? I've probably read some of his work - my master's is in math ed.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Wow, big change. I think you'll like it there.


It appears to be like Maine only greener... I didn't think any place could rival us for trees, but Corvallis does!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [NCtri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks. I've loved my masters work and I imagine Ph.D. school will be similar.

At least I hope it is...

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congrats Alyie!

Friend Brad thinks that's a great choice. Dad Brad is not as happy. ;)

Brad

3SIXTY5cycling.com
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It all depends on your advisor and project.

But, Oregon is pretty badass nonetheless.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cornvalley?!? Gack. Hope Halloween is your favorite holiday, cuz it's orange & black 24/7/365 there. The ride up Mary's Peak is killer, though, and you're only an hour & change from the Coast. Osborn is the nicest pool anywhere in the mid/south Valley, too.

Go Ducks! (just had to get that in... sorry, couldn't resist)
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [hillier99] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Congrats Alyie!

Friend Brad thinks that's a great choice. Dad Brad is not as happy. ;)

My parents will be ok. They'll get over it...


maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
The ride up Mary's Peak is killer, though,


Tell me about this... how far from Corvallis?

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [LorenzoP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
LorenzoP wrote:
my uncle (now retired) was big in math ed, wrote lots of books on the topic and traveled the world (one would not think math ed peeps would trot the globe)

anyways, here in WI, it looks like public teachers are going to lose any pay raises for acquiring adv. degrees or PD (and perhaps lose salary raises already acquired from adv degrees) - and if Gov. Walker survives recall, this will likely be passed in other states. You might consider avoiding any efforts involving adv degrees in Education and stick with developing undergraduate programs - or like my uncle, wrote math books for High Schoolers
-

Why would you need advanced degrees to teach in K-12?
I am not saying there is anything wrong with getting advanced degrees if you want, but I don't see why you should get an automatic pay raise for doing so (especially when the taxpayers end up footing the bill).

I work as an engineer. I happen to hold a PE. My employer does not pay me anything extra for having this credential. Likewise, I have a Masters degree. I received no change in compensation when I got this.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't want to teach K12, I want to teach college. (I know your reply wasn't directed at me).

I also just want to stay in school... :-)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_yoda wrote:
LorenzoP wrote:
my uncle (now retired) was big in math ed, wrote lots of books on the topic and traveled the world (one would not think math ed peeps would trot the globe)

anyways, here in WI, it looks like public teachers are going to lose any pay raises for acquiring adv. degrees or PD (and perhaps lose salary raises already acquired from adv degrees) - and if Gov. Walker survives recall, this will likely be passed in other states. You might consider avoiding any efforts involving adv degrees in Education and stick with developing undergraduate programs - or like my uncle, wrote math books for High Schoolers
-


Why would you need advanced degrees to teach in K-12?
I am not saying there is anything wrong with getting advanced degrees if you want, but I don't see why you should get an automatic pay raise for doing so (especially when the taxpayers end up footing the bill).

I work as an engineer. I happen to hold a PE. My employer does not pay me anything extra for having this credential. Likewise, I have a Masters degree. I received no change in compensation when I got this.

You really got screwed, didn't you?


****************

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [NCtri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NCtri wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:
Why would you need advanced degrees to teach in K-12?
I am not saying there is anything wrong with getting advanced degrees if you want, but I don't see why you should get an automatic pay raise for doing so (especially when the taxpayers end up footing the bill).

I work as an engineer. I happen to hold a PE. My employer does not pay me anything extra for having this credential. Likewise, I have a Masters degree. I received no change in compensation when I got this.


You really got screwed, didn't you?

Sounds like it.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
I don't want to teach K12, I want to teach college. (I know your reply wasn't directed at me).

I also just want to stay in school... :-)

You want to teach college level math or college level math education?



sometimes you just have to eat the cake
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [VO2Matt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Both. Some math educators work in math departments and teach math ed classes as well as some beginning undergrad math courses, like calc/stats. I want to be a math educator in a math dept., not a math educator in an edu. dept. The trick is acquiring the pure math background to make the former work, and that will be part of my doctoral studies.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
Both. Some math educators work in math departments and teach math ed classes as well as some beginning undergrad math courses, like calc/stats. I want to be a math educator in a math dept., not a math educator in an edu. dept. The trick is acquiring the pure math background to make the former work, and that will be part of my doctoral studies.

This was the point I was going to make to you, but it seems you are aware of it already. I would look into picking up a pure math masters degree along the way. Many universities will let you cross count a certain percentage of your non-research credits towards a related masters degree, which makes it much easier.



sometimes you just have to eat the cake
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [VO2Matt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
already talking about it :-) thanks for your insight. Love the new sig line btw.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
awesome. sounds like you have things well thought out. Have fun in grad school. Its been the best 5 years of my life so far.



sometimes you just have to eat the cake
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [NCtri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NCtri wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:
LorenzoP wrote:
my uncle (now retired) was big in math ed, wrote lots of books on the topic and traveled the world (one would not think math ed peeps would trot the globe)

anyways, here in WI, it looks like public teachers are going to lose any pay raises for acquiring adv. degrees or PD (and perhaps lose salary raises already acquired from adv degrees) - and if Gov. Walker survives recall, this will likely be passed in other states. You might consider avoiding any efforts involving adv degrees in Education and stick with developing undergraduate programs - or like my uncle, wrote math books for High Schoolers
-


Why would you need advanced degrees to teach in K-12?
I am not saying there is anything wrong with getting advanced degrees if you want, but I don't see why you should get an automatic pay raise for doing so (especially when the taxpayers end up footing the bill).

I work as an engineer. I happen to hold a PE. My employer does not pay me anything extra for having this credential. Likewise, I have a Masters degree. I received no change in compensation when I got this.


You really got screwed, didn't you?

Not at all. Why would having a piece of paper mean you are somehow instantly more valuable to your employer? An additional degree may or may not be valuable. Although I am employed as an engineer, my employer does not require the services of a professional engineer, so it is a worthless credential in their eyes.

I was just commenting on the fact that someone else thought teachers were getting screwed because they were not going to instantly get raises for accumulating advanced degrees. So I do get screwed in the sense that I pay high taxes so that teachers can get raises for acquiring advanced degrees, whether the degrees are of any value or not.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_yoda wrote:
NCtri wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:
LorenzoP wrote:
my uncle (now retired) was big in math ed, wrote lots of books on the topic and traveled the world (one would not think math ed peeps would trot the globe)

anyways, here in WI, it looks like public teachers are going to lose any pay raises for acquiring adv. degrees or PD (and perhaps lose salary raises already acquired from adv degrees) - and if Gov. Walker survives recall, this will likely be passed in other states. You might consider avoiding any efforts involving adv degrees in Education and stick with developing undergraduate programs - or like my uncle, wrote math books for High Schoolers
-


Why would you need advanced degrees to teach in K-12?
I am not saying there is anything wrong with getting advanced degrees if you want, but I don't see why you should get an automatic pay raise for doing so (especially when the taxpayers end up footing the bill).

I work as an engineer. I happen to hold a PE. My employer does not pay me anything extra for having this credential. Likewise, I have a Masters degree. I received no change in compensation when I got this.


Still sounds like you got screwed. Or took the wrong job.

You really got screwed, didn't you?


Not at all. Why would having a piece of paper mean you are somehow instantly more valuable to your employer? An additional degree may or may not be valuable. Although I am employed as an engineer, my employer does not require the services of a professional engineer, so it is a worthless credential in their eyes.

I was just commenting on the fact that someone else thought teachers were getting screwed because they were not going to instantly get raises for accumulating advanced degrees. So I do get screwed in the sense that I pay high taxes so that teachers can get raises for acquiring advanced degrees, whether the degrees are of any value or not.


****************

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [NCtri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Am I missing something? Do most private sector employers automatically give people raises if they earn an advanced degree or credential?
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_yoda wrote:
Am I missing something? Do most private sector employers automatically give people raises if they earn an advanced degree or credential?

Apparently, why on earth would you pursue certs or advanced degrees if they didn't result in promotions/raises? Did you just pick very poorly?


****************

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [NCtri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NCtri wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:
Am I missing something? Do most private sector employers automatically give people raises if they earn an advanced degree or credential?


Apparently, why on earth would you pursue certs or advanced degrees if they didn't result in promotions/raises? Did you just pick very poorly?


All I said is that they did not result in raises from my current employer. They are most likely of value to other employers; I don't believe most people would think obtaining a Master's Degree in Mechanical engineering or a Professional Engineer certifications are poor choices objectively. My employer paid all the costs associated with the Master's degree, so even though they did not increase my compensation, I think getting $25,000 in free tuition and books was a pretty good deal. Getting a PE, even in NY where there are high fees, is not going to cost you more than $1000 out of pocket. Yes, it will cost you some time, but time spent increasing marketable skills is usually time well spent. So no, I do not think I picked poorly.

Just because you are not automatically/immediately going to get a raise or promotion from your current employer for doing something doesn't mean that it will not result in getting a raise or promotion at some point in the future. My employer might be screwing me in other ways, but not giving me an automatic raise for getting an advanced degree or certification is not one of them in my eyes.
Last edited by: tri_yoda: Apr 30, 12 20:01
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [VO2Matt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
VO2Matt wrote:
awesome. sounds like you have things well thought out. Have fun in grad school. Its been the best 5 years of my life so far.

X2

(though 7 years in my case ;)

__________________________

Oh yeah!
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maine requires teachers to have masters degrees and will pay for teachers to complete those degrees. I am not sure if one is paid more after completing it; I am now interested. I didn't go this route - I am student teaching, not a full-time teacher and a student on the side.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_yoda wrote:
They are most likely of value to other employers; I don't believe most people would think obtaining a Master's Degree in Mechanical engineering or a Professional Engineer certifications are poor choices objectively.

I had an engineering professor who would disagree! For economic reasons, he thought getting a masters in engineering was a waste of time if you weren't pursuing a PhD. At the time, the increase in average pay for the engineering masters wasn't more than just going out and working for 2 years, getting 2 years salary and getting 2 raises. But that's only for full time students, so I'm not sure what he would think about part-time students like your situation.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are complaining about on this case. You've admitted several times that the degrees and certifications have value for the employer. It's just a matter of how (part of) that value is passed on to the employee. Teachers just have a rigid pay scale, that's how it works. In this case, it can be considered a bit of a benefit, though that depends on how much the increased compensation is! They also don't have the ability to get a 10% raise one year for doing a kickass job, like you or I could.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [Quel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In the real world, degrees and certifications only have value for the employer as the employee translates the knowledge and skills into actual on-the-job performance improvements. Do a better job and take on more responsibility and that is rewarded with better pay.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wow! Big move for you, congrats! You are in my neighborhood now :-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [Hubblesmith] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You will get paid more going into a job with an advanced degree so you start off earning more than someone hired with the same experience at the same time but no advanced degree.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JenSw wrote:
You will get paid more going into a job with an advanced degree so you start off earning more than someone hired with the same experience at the same time but no advanced degree.

That is conventional wisdom, but generally speaking is no longer true. With the recent economic downturn many students chose to eschew the real world and stay in school getting advanced degrees so they wouldn't have the stress of finding a job. Employers now look at the advanced degree with several grains of salt and will favor the undergrad degree with a couple years of experience over the masters degree with no experience.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Very cycling friendly, so now I will have NO excuse (except being busy with school, which is the one I use now).

I thought it rained all the time there? If so, there's your excuse.

Anyway, congratulations on your new program. I'm envious; I had some visions of becoming a math professor when I was growing up.

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Wow! Big move for you, congrats! You are in my neighborhood now :-)


:-)


I know I will be in your corner of the world - will I be in your literal neighborhood? I know you just moved... PM me :-)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Good choice. I love Oregon. If I could come up with good jobs for both me and my wife at the same time I'd move there in a heartbeat.

Crater Lake may be my favorite place on the planet.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Does this mean you are going to change your handle to beaverchick?

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congrats and welcome to the Pacific Northwest.

Now you'll finally have a chance to do the Tiger Tri in WA. :-)


"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congrats!!! Too bad you didn't look a little further North at the largest and best math faculty on the planet. :) H2O Loo
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [chainpin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Does this mean you are going to change your handle to beaverchick?


No!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply

Quote:
Am I missing something? Do most private sector employers automatically give people raises if they earn an advanced degree or credential?

You are comparing aples and oranges.

Engineering is dictated by the free market. If you get a masters degree or P.E. you may or may not get a pay bump by your employer. In engineering pay is based on a combination of A) your value to your employer and B) your value to teh competition. If you get a P.E. and your employer gets no advantage from your P.E., then they may not pay you more provided that you weren't already worth more to them. However, your market value does go up and they might be more likely to lose you to a higher paying company, so they may decide to give you a pay bump. Even if they don't, your degree can still earn you more money.

Teaching, OTOH, is a union driven government job. There are many reasons behind this, but for simplicity sake lets just say that one of them is the fact that an older more experienced teacher isn't really worth that much more than a teacher ~5-7 years into their career. Teachers know that they can't make a profession out of a system that encourages employers to fire you simply for being old and replacing you with younger teachers. So they unionize and come up with a pay structure, one that guarantees incrimental pay increases as you gain more experience. It also guarantees more pay as a result of increased personal eduactional growth.

This doesn't cost *you* anymore money. It costs the teachers that don't persue advanced degrees money as it shifts the income from them to those that do. The cost to you is no different.

Does it make sense? I personally support some degree of merit pay, but beyond that, it seems to encourage teachers to expand their education and knowledge. I don;t necessarily see that as a bad thing, and if teacher *want* to have their money dispersed this way and bargain to do so, then I don;t really see why I should care.

The only real complaint comes from, "It's not fair that my job does this but their job does that." If you think teachers have it so easy, there's nothing stopping you from jumping onto the gravy train and livign the posh life of a teacher!


And believe me, every year around this time I wish I was still teaching! ; ^ )



-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
One comment, T.C. It drove me nuts as a teacher and a math ed. student that educational acedamia was run by people who were ideologues who had no clue what the teaching environemt was really like.

Don't be that person.

Good luck.....I was looking forward to seeing you in town, but I'd certaing pick Oregon over Delaware too! ; ^ )

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
One comment, T.C. It drove me nuts as a teacher and a math ed. student that educational acedamia was run by people who were ideologues who had no clue what the teaching environemt was really like.

Don't be that person.

Good luck.....I was looking forward to seeing you in town, but I'd certaing pick Oregon over Delaware too! ; ^ )


I've taught a little bit - 4 mo. in a public school (very little) and 6 semesters of university teaching (college algebra; college geometry; calc I).

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [M~] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Congrats!!! Too bad you didn't look a little further North at the largest and best math faculty on the planet. :) H2O Loo


I don't have a passport! Good to know I'm in the right area, though...

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congrats. You will have a great time exploring Oregon--it's got everything from rain forests to coastline to the cascades (better skiing than Maine) to the high desert.

Take a long weekend at some point and go the the Alvord desert in the SE quadrant. It's worth the drive.

___________________________
De que depende?
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
College teaching doesn't count. ; ^ )

Just something to keep in the back of your head. There have been a lot of serious problems with the way math education has been approached over many many decades. I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to become very familiar with them.

The biggest problem I've seen with educational research in general is that it isn't very honest. A true researcher should go out of their way to try and disprove their own claims and see if they will hold up to rigorous scrutiny. To often they try to force the facts to fit an ideology rather than make the facts drive the conclusion.

There's also a problem with indentifying the practicality of a lot of approaches. I'll give you just a few examples:

First I'll show you my approach, and keep in mind that I had very little experience (2 1/2 years of teaching), yet still had the *highest* test scores and passing rate in the school for my algebra classes.

1) I didn't waste time going over homework. They turned it in, and instead I would have them work on problems on the board that were very similar to the homework problems. This saved a lot of class time as most people just tune out when going over homework. It's better to get them *solving* new problems rather than passively listening to me explain old problems.

2) I didn't have kids write out explanations or write them on the board and explain them to the class. The claim was that this would help them learn.....except that it took too much time. Only 5 kids would actually be able to participate at a time, while 25 kids would watch and do nothing. The explanations were poor and no one could understand them (because they are kids explaining it, not teachers).

3) They would work on problems by themselves. If they didn;t understand, they'd have a partner help. If they still couldn't get it, I'd help them. This all heppens while I take attendence and collect homework. Again, EFFICIENCY!

4) I'd quickly go over the problems and explain how they should have done them, but this won't take much time because the problems were basic and the class had their chance to get my help already.

5) New topic - explanation "This is the pythagorean theorem. Here's how it works. Here's why it works." I don't waste time deriving it because they get nothing out of it at 14.

6) We work through an example together while they watch me on the board.

7) They do an example on their own, get help from partner if needed, or me if needed.

8) I go over the answer. I do another example with the class. I have them do another one on their own. I then give them 10-20 problems to work on.

Remember - *highest* grades in the school!


My adminsitration hated this process. What I was supposed to do is have them work in groups of 4, explain to each other how to do the problems, write answer on the board, and explain them to the class. For learning the Pythagorean theorem, for example, they were supposed to do an activity where they measured the sides of a bunch of triangles, put them into some sort of grid, and see if they can "discover" the relationship between the different sides. In theory this is supposed to be a better method than having me just tell them and then have them work on problems. The problem is, by employing these methods, I burn about 20-30 minutes of class time and end up having to just tell them anyway.

This kind of method works much better in a smaller setting, or possibly with a more advanced group of students, but it is horribly inefficient with teaching a larger group of average to below average students. They require structure, and efficient activities that they can work through.

Much of modern math ed. programs focus on trying to make math class not seem like math class. The bottom line is, they actually have to work through the problems. there just isnt any way around that! As an old physics grad told me, "you learn physics (or math) with your arm, not your eyes."

My 2 cents.....I can rant on. ; ^ )

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Outstanding. That is the kind of teaching I would want my kids to receive.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
In Reply To:
The ride up Mary's Peak is killer, though,


Tell me about this... how far from Corvallis?


It's a slightly long-ish, but very doable ride from town (pretty popular club ride), or you can drive somewhere further out of town and then ride. I've never ridden it straight from Corvallis (done it either from the south near Monroe or from the opposite side instead), but I'd guess from OSU (which is near the edge of town going that way) it's maybe a 50-60mi round trip depending on whether you just stick to the Hwy or try to take less-busy roads around Philomath. Total elev gain is probably 3500' or so, of which maybe ~2300 is the 'main' climb from the hwy turn-off approx 9-10 miles from the top, where there's an improved viewpoint and a couple public cans. If you do the math, avg grade of Mary's Peak Rd is probably something like 5%, which doesn't sound too bad, but there's a pronounced 'dip' about 1/2-2/3 of the way up and it slacks off near the summit plateau so if you subtract those there's several miles of 6-7%.

It's certainly less than Mt Lemmon (although MP gets steeper), Mt Palomar, McKenzie Pass, Hurricane Ridge, etc, but it hosts a hillclimb race every year which has also rotates as the state hillclimb championship some years. For being so close to town, it's also a great place to just go hiking and such, even a little snowshoeing in winter without having to drive another hour+ each way to the Cascades.
Last edited by: OneGoodLeg: May 1, 12 15:29
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Awesome. I can't wait to ride it.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BarryP wrote:

Quote:
Am I missing something? Do most private sector employers automatically give people raises if they earn an advanced degree or credential?


You are comparing aples and oranges.

Engineering is dictated by the free market. If you get a masters degree or P.E. you may or may not get a pay bump by your employer. In engineering pay is based on a combination of A) your value to your employer and B) your value to teh competition. If you get a P.E. and your employer gets no advantage from your P.E., then they may not pay you more provided that you weren't already worth more to them. However, your market value does go up and they might be more likely to lose you to a higher paying company, so they may decide to give you a pay bump. Even if they don't, your degree can still earn you more money.

Teaching, OTOH, is a union driven government job. There are many reasons behind this, but for simplicity sake lets just say that one of them is the fact that an older more experienced teacher isn't really worth that much more than a teacher ~5-7 years into their career. Teachers know that they can't make a profession out of a system that encourages employers to fire you simply for being old and replacing you with younger teachers. So they unionize and come up with a pay structure, one that guarantees incrimental pay increases as you gain more experience. It also guarantees more pay as a result of increased personal eduactional growth.

This doesn't cost *you* anymore money. It costs the teachers that don't persue advanced degrees money as it shifts the income from them to those that do. The cost to you is no different.

Does it make sense? I personally support some degree of merit pay, but beyond that, it seems to encourage teachers to expand their education and knowledge. I don;t necessarily see that as a bad thing, and if teacher *want* to have their money dispersed this way and bargain to do so, then I don;t really see why I should care.




Since I am a tax payer, it does cost me money. That's the whole point.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_yoda wrote:
BarryP wrote:

Quote:
Am I missing something? Do most private sector employers automatically give people raises if they earn an advanced degree or credential?


You are comparing aples and oranges.

Engineering is dictated by the free market. If you get a masters degree or P.E. you may or may not get a pay bump by your employer. In engineering pay is based on a combination of A) your value to your employer and B) your value to teh competition. If you get a P.E. and your employer gets no advantage from your P.E., then they may not pay you more provided that you weren't already worth more to them. However, your market value does go up and they might be more likely to lose you to a higher paying company, so they may decide to give you a pay bump. Even if they don't, your degree can still earn you more money.

Teaching, OTOH, is a union driven government job. There are many reasons behind this, but for simplicity sake lets just say that one of them is the fact that an older more experienced teacher isn't really worth that much more than a teacher ~5-7 years into their career. Teachers know that they can't make a profession out of a system that encourages employers to fire you simply for being old and replacing you with younger teachers. So they unionize and come up with a pay structure, one that guarantees incrimental pay increases as you gain more experience. It also guarantees more pay as a result of increased personal eduactional growth.

This doesn't cost *you* anymore money. It costs the teachers that don't persue advanced degrees money as it shifts the income from them to those that do. The cost to you is no different.

Does it make sense? I personally support some degree of merit pay, but beyond that, it seems to encourage teachers to expand their education and knowledge. I don;t necessarily see that as a bad thing, and if teacher *want* to have their money dispersed this way and bargain to do so, then I don;t really see why I should care.





Since I am a tax payer, it does cost me money. That's the whole point.

Then you deserve the shitty public education you will get for your children. Me, I'm ok with paying for more training.


****************

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [Blue Rider] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Blue Rider wrote:
Congrats. You will have a great time exploring Oregon--it's got everything from rain forests to coastline to the cascades (better skiing than Maine) to the high desert.

Take a long weekend at some point and go the the Alvord desert in the SE quadrant. It's worth the drive.

+1... Steens/Alvord is really an amazing place; hard to do it justice in any description, but safe to say it's about as unlike Maine as you can get in OR. Did a 5-day bike tour around there several years ago starting & ending in Frenchglen; wish I could carve out more time to go back but it's pretty close to a full day's drive each way and it's not really on the way to anything else so you gotta set aside at least a 3 or 4-day weekend minimum to justify the burn.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Since I am a tax payer, it does cost me money. That's the whole point.

Did you not just read what I just wrote? It does not cost you *more* money for someone to get a pay bump for getting a masters degree. All it does is shift the budget toward the more educated teachers and away from the less educated ones. A program like this attracts the more ambitious and harder working teachers (and more educated) to your school district and pushes the slackers toward other school districts.

Why on Earth would you not want that?

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BarryP wrote:
Quote:
Since I am a tax payer, it does cost me money. That's the whole point.


Did you not just read what I just wrote? It does not cost you *more* money for someone to get a pay bump for getting a masters degree. All it does is shift the budget toward the more educated teachers and away from the less educated ones. A program like this attracts the more ambitious and harder working teachers (and more educated) to your school district and pushes the slackers toward other school districts.

Why on Earth would you not want that?

No. Pretty much all teachers get a masters degree, it is a *requirement* in most states, so it results in salary inflation. It is not like the school budget is fixed. If they want more money for teachers compensation, they just raise taxes to get more money. There is no reason K-12 teachers need masters degrees. However, since the degree is easy to obtain, teachers like to get them to justify more pay, because hey it is a masters degree. I am sorry but all masters degrees are not created equal, a masters degree in education from a branch campus of a state university does not equal a masters degree in physics from MIT. However, it doesn't matter where they get it (probably must at least be accredited) or what the subject is, a teacher will get an automatic raise.

Better educated does not equal better teacher. I know plenty of people with pHDs who could not teach you anything.

So, I don't think it attracts ambitious or harder working people. To get a masters degree in education all you have to do is pretty much show up for class. My sister has two masters degrees in education and I know what she had to do to get them, not much. It would be stupid not to get one, when you consider all the extra money you will earn over a lifetime. By making the raise automatic, you set a low bar and attract lazy people. Basically the raise is the equivalent of a finishers medal.

The entire union based teaching system systematically discourages anyone ambitious from going into teaching. Why would I go into teaching when I would make significantly less than a slug who has been working there for 20 years and is offered a better pension than I would ever be able to get as a new hire, even if I was a top performer?
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
No. Pretty much all teachers get a masters degree, it is a *requirement* in most states, so it results in salary inflation. It is not like the school budget is fixed. If they want more money for teachers compensation, they just raise taxes to get more money. There is no reason K-12 teachers need masters degrees. However, since the degree is easy to obtain, teachers like to get them to justify more pay, because hey it is a masters degree. I am sorry but all masters degrees are not created equal, a masters degree in education from a branch campus of a state university does not equal a masters degree in physics from MIT. However, it doesn't matter where they get it (probably must at least be accredited) or what the subject is, a teacher will get an automatic raise.


Schools al over the country are laying off teachers right now due to budgetary problems. They can't simply "just raise taxes." It doesn't work that way, at all!

And your masters for teachers vs maters for physics is completely and entirely nonsensical. They don't work the same jobs and aren't even competing for the same pool of money. How would getting a masters in physics from MIT make one better at teaching dyslexic children how to spell?

Every conversation you enter on education is centered around "they should get paid this much compared to this other person because of how difficult the job is." Sorry, you don't get paid because of the difficulty of the job, or the degree. I don't know why you keep bringing it up. Apples and oranges!

Quote:
So, I don't think it attracts ambitious or harder working people. To get a masters degree in education all you have to do is pretty much show up for class.

And you don't think that's more difficult than not going to class at all?

Quote:
The entire union based teaching system systematically discourages anyone ambitious from going into teaching. Why would I go into teaching when I would make significantly less than a slug who has been working there for 20 years and is offered a better pension than I would ever be able to get as a new hire, even if I was a top performer?


I would think you would go into teaching because of all those amazing perks you keep complaining about. You get tons of cash for working a part time job, and then get automatic pay raises just for taking a few online courses that give you automatic A's. Meanwhile, you never have to worry about money or work because schools don't have budgets. Seriously, why on Earth did you give all this up to be an unappreciated engineer who slaves his ass off for pennies?

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
that post sets a record for the highest number of thoughts pulled out of one's ass
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 I have a PhD in engineering and a PE and I have great respect for teachers. Their work is arguably harder than mine and bet most of them work harder than I do. They get shit on, get paid little, and have a very important job that is highly under appreciated, particularly by people like you who measure someone's value by their salary. I'm sure your very important job is very difficult. Go watch Stand and Deliver (it's one of my favorite movies). What the hell is your problem anyway?

__________________________

Oh yeah!
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [duffman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I used to be a teacher and gave it up to become an engineer.

I can't speak specifically about Tri-Yoda, but I've noticed that a lot of engineers seem to exhibit a similar problem. We were "the smart ones" in school and some how we got it into our heads that that means that we should just automatically make more money. We actually do....we make more than 95% of the population, but most people tend to focus more on who they are *not* making more than, and it gets frustrating when you see the popular kids from school who you are "smarter" than go into sales and marketing and make more money.

Teachers don't make more, but there is this intinct that engineers have that they look at their salary at 10 years (say $70K-$90K) and compare it to an elementary school teacher at 25 years (say $60K-$80K) and think specifically in terms of the difficulty of the *material* and say, "all you need to know is simple addition and subtraction, and you get paid almost as much as *I* do?!"

The bottom line is, if TriYoda thinks they have it easy, he can become a teacher (after all, the degrees are not hard to get). If he's concerned about his taxes, there are plenty of areas that have lower taxes and don't pay their teachers very well. He can always move into those school districts. We have a saying here in the tristate area. You can live in PA and pay higher taxes, or you can live in DE and pay for private school. MD is not even an option!

On a side note, and I am only using this as an analogy. Trahmen get paid very well (about $30-35K for 20 hours a week) even though the qualification for being a trashman is quite low. They get paid because the work environment is not very nice and no one wants to work in it. If I wanted to compare the difficulty of teaching compared to engineering, my engineering job is WAYYYY less stressful.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Some day, you'll have to go out to Silver Falls too. It's about 60 miles from Corvallis (east of Salem), but very nice. Quite busy on a nice day though. Really great water falls, and a whole lot of them within a nice easy hike.

Although when I went there 2 years ago, someone from Portland fell in and died.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
You can live in PA and pay higher taxes, or you can live in DE and pay for private school. MD is not even an option!


Living expenses in Corvallis are way cheaper than MD :D I was pretty psyched about that.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Corvallis? I seem to remember there was a meeting there that had epic consequences for civilization.

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_yoda wrote:
Am I missing something? Do most private sector employers automatically give people raises if they earn an advanced degree or credential?

I was taught that earning a BA/BS was about getting a new/different job, a Masters was about improving one's current job skills and a PhD was again about getting a new job. There must have been some truth to that because of the way the IRS used to treat each degree, at one point only a Masters degree was eligible as a business related expense for tax purposes. I don't know if that is still the case, but it was back in the 1990's when I was doing research into that subject.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
In Reply To:
The ride up Mary's Peak is killer, though,



Tell me about this... how far from Corvallis?

Just found this...

http://www.vccycling.com/mphctt/

Looks like they're starting a little ways down the Hwy so there's an extra "warm-up" climb before the turn-off to the main climb.
Quote Reply
Re: I picked a Ph.D. program for next year [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
thanks!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply