HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

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HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly

AnthonyS

Apr 29, 12 13:44

Post #1 of 26 (2779 views)

HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly	Quote \| Reply

The good:

Marble Falls. It's just a really neat small TX hill country town. *** serious note: They don't call it the "Hill Country" for nothing. ***

The transition area and boxes: nice idea. I really like having my own designated space. Some guy put his bags in my box, but I matched them to his bike number and moved them.

The bike numbers are the best race bike numbers I have ever seen. You don't need to be 6'6" to have room to put it on your seatpost.

The HITS people are great. They really are trying to do an excellent job and they do care what you have to say.

The course, it was seriously challenging with all the hills. I did the sprint, and know some guys that did the Olympic. I also know someone doing the half today, but I didn't stick around to see how the half and full went.

The bad:

The food. If you do triathlons for the free meals and post race snacks, this isn't your event.

The road conditions. These roads were rough with some construction, cattle guards and lots of rough patches and some potholes. I saw one Taco'd wheel and a few flats. I took my road bike suspecting the hills would be hell, and I am glad I did. Aero won't help you out a ton on this course unless you are wicked fast. I passed someone in the drops going up hill once, but I didn't say a word. I was just trying to get over that hill. If you are scared of bombing downhills, this course is also not for you. I liked it, but thought it was a bit rough at times.

The course lengths. They were all long just like other HITS events. The swim was long (I didn't have a way to measure it, but based on times), the sprint bike was 1 mile long and the run was 0.13 miles long by GPS. I didn't mind really, but I suspect all of their distances were long. My wife (watching) said the Olympic swim was brutally long, and I heard the Oly bike course was even more brutal. You can check out the finish times on the HITS website. The times say this is a pretty hard course.

The ugly:

I saw one thing that bothered me. I'm not sure who takes the blame for this one or share of the blame. I was watching the Olympic finishers at the corner of Mormon Mill and US 281. The course for the Oly and Sprint traveled down US281 (up on the way out) for one block. This is 6 lanes of heavy traffic from San Antonio/Austin headed north into Marble Falls. Well at 11:30 am on the dot, the Police working the intersection got into their cars and left. There was one volunteer working this intersection (a local guy). My folks gave the local guy some water around 11:00 as he was hurting. The police literally told him to tell the remaining racers to "cross at their own risk." My dad, my wife and I and this guy spent the next hour and a half trying to help the remaining racers fend off the traffic. It was literally a very bad situation, and thank goodness nothing horrible happened. There were numerous close calls though. The last 20-25 racers that day just got left out on their own. I wish I would have seen the RD to fill him in on this situation. I will probably send them an e-mail or point them to this thread.

Saturday I wasn't one of the latter racers, but I might have been had I done the Olympic. I felt really bad for those people. Not because the course was brutal but because they had to try and navigate a US highway with lots of traffic on their own.

Conclusion: I am considering doing this event again next year. I may do the Oly or 70.3; not sure. I just hope I don't get left trying to play Frogger on 281.
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You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.

monty

Apr 29, 12 14:03

Post #2 of 26 (2737 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

They really are trying to do an excellent job and they do care what you have to say.///

I find your quote here a little funny since they have been making the same frigging mistakes over and over since the very 1st race. Apparently they do not care enough to do anything about what we tell them, but i guess at least they are nice? What you went through at that intersection has been going on since day one. I have not jumped in to the other race threads, trying to give them some time to fix things. But this is ridiculous, what are we, about 6 races in now and the same exact shit goes on at every event. People love the horse stools and box in transition, while the few that are doing the race end up lucky that no one dies or gets severely injured due to negligence and incompetence. I'd say the free pass is over, time for them to do something positive or get back to the horsey end of sports..

It is very easy for them, go through all the threads here, make a list of all the crap they have ignored, and fix it. They are already selling entries to next years races, best they make sure they will be around first.

Optimal_Adrian

Apr 29, 12 14:12

Post #3 of 26 (2718 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I just posted my report on the Half distance. I can say that I did not have any problems with traffic whatsoever, but the courses between today and yesterday don't overlap all that much.

I would say that the courses today were short if anything, but I can see it being a bigger issue with a sprint.

I agree on the food, but this isn't an issue for me since I bring everything I need.

Do send your feedback to the race director. I think he is listening.
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2013 Race Schedule:
Tx State (sprint) - HITS Marble Falls (Oly)- Captex (Oly) - Lake Pfugerville Tri - Tri for Old Glory - Marble Falls Tri - Jack's Generic Tri - TriRock Austin (Oly) - ??

AnthonyS

Apr 29, 12 14:29

Post #4 of 26 (2679 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [OptimalAdrian] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I read your report and enjoyed it. You also crossed the finish line first. The people crossing first had plenty of support yesterday. It was the last 25 or so in the Olympic that worried me. If I do the Olympic or 70.3 next year, I will not be crossing the finish line first.
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You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.

Optimal_Adrian

Apr 29, 12 14:50

Post #5 of 26 (2633 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I totally agree, my experience may be better than most. Hopefully what you saw yesterday with the traffic doesn't happen to anyone in the full race today, but at the same time I hope they post if it does. That kind of thing might need to be reported to the police dept as well as the RD.
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2013 Race Schedule:
Tx State (sprint) - HITS Marble Falls (Oly)- Captex (Oly) - Lake Pfugerville Tri - Tri for Old Glory - Marble Falls Tri - Jack's Generic Tri - TriRock Austin (Oly) - ??

Grant.Reuter

Apr 29, 12 15:16

Post #6 of 26 (2592 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

When did the race start, that's three and a half hours into an Olympic just for a swim and bike if it started at 8 am. Most races at x time the course will be open again for traffic. 11:30 sounds about right for the bike course.
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De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon

AnthonyS

Apr 29, 12 17:03

Post #7 of 26 (2433 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [Grant.Reuter] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The Olympic started at 7:40 according to my wife. Their site states a 5 hour time limit on the Olympic. This crossing was 1 mile from the finish.

I don't care,about the "sounds about right" over the safety of any competitor. Even slow triathletes deserve a safe course.
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You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.

japarker24

Apr 29, 12 17:10

Post #8 of 26 (2411 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Just because you are a triathlete and you can put on a good horse show does not mean you can put on a good triathlon.....................

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2x IM Finisher. Only 10 more to go!

afurlong

Apr 29, 12 18:21

Post #9 of 26 (2318 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [monty] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

monty wrote:

I'd say Monty is pretty much right on with this. I raced at Naples this year in the Sprint. I was fortunate enough to get them to comp me another entry wherever I wanted (chose Cooperstown) due to similar problems with cops/intersection control (I was routed off course, however). For whatever reason, they really seem to struggle with adequate, safe bike courses.
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http://www.adamfurlong.com || @adamfurlong
Run So As To Win || Rock The \/\/ || Greater > Than

Grant.Reuter

Apr 29, 12 21:37

Post #10 of 26 (2153 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

So just to double check this, the course limit was 5 hours and they were nearly at 4 hours before they even got off the bike. I'm sorry but there's a reason they have course limits, and there is reasons they say you are on your own after a certain amount of time. They can't pay cops indefinitely and if it's taking 4 hours to get through the bike course i find it hard to believe they even trained for the race.

There should be a safe course for everyone I agree, right up to the point where there is a time cutoff because the individual wasn't taking the race seriously anyways. They are screwed either way, either you say you have a course limit with a bike cut off time and people complain because they couldnt finish or you have no cut off time and people complain because you can't keep paying police to sit out there forever.

They should have stated on the website the course would be open to traffic after x amount of time. But I have no problem with them reopening the course. It sounds like they failed on the communication end more than anything.

AnthonyS

Apr 29, 12 21:42

Post #11 of 26 (2144 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [Grant.Reuter] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

These people were finishing the run. The run and bike course shared lanes and this intersection. Of course, since your mind was made up long before having the facts, this new fact will no doubt not matter either.

I'm sure after triple checking you still won't care for the safety of other competitors. So feel free to quadruple check too.....
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You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.

Grant.Reuter

Apr 29, 12 22:03

Post #12 of 26 (2130 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I'm sure if you removed the stick from your ass you could have said that in your original post or could have said it without being a dick, since youre the one that was actually their its normally easier if you say all the facts in the first place. Because that actually does make a difference, since taking four hours to get through the bike course is a lot different that 4 hours to get through the whole course. But once you triple and quadruple check if you've removed that, let me know and we can go back to discussing how long is long enough for the race director to pay the police for people who are in no way going to make a course cutoff.
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De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon

ComidaDeluxe

Apr 29, 12 23:51

Post #13 of 26 (2094 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [Grant.Reuter] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

The course may indeed have been off but you can't make that conclusion based on a .13 mi difference on a gps watch. .13 could easily be the difference of taking some of the curves at the tangent and some not, not to mention the inherent inaccuracy of gps watches sometimes.

Grant.Reuter

Apr 30, 12 0:02

Post #14 of 26 (2089 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [ComidaDeluxe] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I'm not ;). But yes I agree with you, .1 is pretty darn close especially with turns or turnarounds. That and I have no problem with courses being off by that little bit sometimes it's hard to get them perfect because of where roads are and transition exit and such.
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De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon

bt

Apr 30, 12 6:30

Post #15 of 26 (1954 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [monty] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

monty wrote:

I'm with Monty...we've seen the same issues posted after each of the races...what, now, seven in the series? And every time, people say, "oh, we hope they will improve; we want them to stick around." How much hoping and wishing is going to put on a race that matches the quality of other races or matches the entry fees you are paying?

But they're nice...yeah, that's what my 81 year old mom says about her doctors and yard workers, etc.....and in the back of my head I keep asking myself, "nice, sure, but smart and getting the job done?"

runner-x

Apr 30, 12 7:41

Post #16 of 26 (1860 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I wrote the original thread a week or two ago, asking who was interested or were competing at the Marble Falls race. Figured I would give my thoughts on the race under this thread as I did the Olympic.

I was fortunate enough to drive the course the day before the race and got to see that this would not be the easiest of bike courses, which should be expected for the hill country of Texas.

The roads appeared to be a bit narrow for my liking on an out and back course. The roads were not the best at times and certainly weren't the worst - I would give them a average overall rating in terms of quality.
The bike course had a lot of turns/hills/cattle guards/ and some loose gravel but also had some really nice scenary
I would be lying if I didn't leave the viewing of the bike course with some concern for potential conflict due to other bad bike handlers.

I headed to the packet pick on Friday and was greeted by many friendly people, who were more than helpful. Intending to get in a light swim, I was hoping to test out my wetsuit in the lake, thinking it would be freezing. The water temp felt warm to the touch so I decided to try without and was pleasantly surprised by how good it felt. I have been swimming in a mid-80 degree pool and welcomed what felt like mid 70's. No wetsuit for the race was the decision but still need to practice in one and get used to it for future cold water swims.

Plenty of nice racers were met around the water before and after the friday swim, making for an even more enjoyable experience.

Race morning experiences (Olympic distance):

There were enough bathroom options
They were doing a great job with announcements and checking in
Staff was extremely friendly
Plenty of signage all around for spectators and athletes to know where people will be coming/going

The swim appeared to be long (I don't really care much as it is a race against others). They did a good job of getting us in the water, giving clear instructions and having a good layout for the swim, although there were early concerns about the buoy being a bit too close to the shore.

The bike course ended up working out just fine from road layout/roughness concern. I did see several people walking up the steep hill around, just before the road widens back up. In fact, I almost flew down the hill and hit someone who lost all momentum and ended up swirving in front of my before cutting back to his side of the road and falling down. The cattle guards ended up not being a problem, they attempted to place things on top to alleviate any problems, which I don't think was needed. The only concern with the bike from my viewpoint was that the cops didn't seem to be the most alert to what was going on, at least at one intersection in which they let a truck with trailer pullout in front of my. I was going quite fast downhill and luckily they stopped midway in the intersection allowing me to go by as I would have had no option other than to lay the bike down, which I had already started heavy breaking when I realized what was going on.

The run course was fine, with little issues. Yes, it is a busy road that needs to be crossed on the bike and run but I felt that from where I was at in the race, near the front, that they were doing a good job. I know it is not an ideal place to cross but that is what they had to work with.

Final thoughts:

There were a lot of positives with the event but like any new event, there were negative. I think the biggest negative was that you had to cross many intersections that could potentially be dangerous if someone had a mental lapse. There really isn't much of a solution in my opinion if they want to use Morman Mills road as their bike course and run course. If they were to have had the run on the west side of 281 like I believe they had in all their material, it would have most likely cut down on the stress and confusion that the traffic control probably had.

I would probably do the event again, due to location and family being in the area. I don't like paying $150 for the race but such is life. It was a very good challenge for someone who has been living in flat terrain / low humidity
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h2ofun

Apr 30, 12 8:54

Post #17 of 26 (1767 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [ComidaDeluxe] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

ComidaDeluxe wrote:

You might want to look up what the "official" process is to "certify" a run course. No way is a GPS used. And on a bike I would guess it would be just about impossible to ride the "certified" course if many bikers where there.
About the only thing one can say for a triathlon course, is everyone had the chance to do the same distance. But, no way are the distances ever exact, what everyone does, etc. Bouys move around. People take different angles
on the bike and run. Plus, no way do they use, I assume, "certified" processes and tools to measure a course.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidedwardcampbell
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." � Mark Twain
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ComidaDeluxe

Apr 30, 12 9:09

Post #18 of 26 (1730 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [h2ofun] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Yes, that was my point. The OP was complaining about the course length and I assumed he based that on his gps watch and so I stated, as you quoted, that gps is a poor way to determine if a course if off, considering that a calibrated wheel is much more accurate.

h2ofun wrote:

ComidaDeluxe wrote:

Runner Rick

Apr 30, 12 9:26

Post #19 of 26 (1698 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [h2ofun] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

h2ofun wrote:

You might want to look up what the "official" process is to "certify" a run course.

Coming from a running background, I'm used to seeing a road race provide their USATF course certification number in the race literature. When I started doing triathlons, I noticed that (from what I could tell) basically no courses' distances are "certified". Doing a quick Google search, I can't see that USAT even has a course cerification process.

For USATF, evidently you can use bicycle.
http://www.usatf.org/...ertification/manual/
______________________________________________________
Proud Member of the Felt Mafia (Is there a FLO Mafia?) "That which doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger."
2013 Races: Boston Marathon Race Report, Las Vegas 70.3 WC, Rev3 SC Half

Optimal_Adrian

Apr 30, 12 11:21

Post #20 of 26 (1554 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [runner-x] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I share a lot of your observations.

I also drove the first/last ~12miles of the half distance bike course and decided not to see the rest so as not to be overly pessimistic about the difficulty. In the end it was challenging but not unfair. I think also think it wouldn't be able to handle a large field going both ways and running+biking at the same time.
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2013 Race Schedule:
Tx State (sprint) - HITS Marble Falls (Oly)- Captex (Oly) - Lake Pfugerville Tri - Tri for Old Glory - Marble Falls Tri - Jack's Generic Tri - TriRock Austin (Oly) - ??

djastroman

Apr 30, 12 12:27

Post #21 of 26 (1463 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I did the sprint on Saturday as well.
As everyone else has said, the transition area was pretty cool. The RD seemed really nice and was very easy to talk to and seemed to be really trying to put on a good race.

That said, the course was one big Charlie Foxtrot.

For some reason they changed the run course the day before the race. I'm not really sure why. But they decided to put the run course on the exact same roads as the bike course, which was an out and back, crossing a major intersection at Hwy 281. The Oly race went after the sprint as well, so you ended up having sprint runners going out, sprint bikers coming back, oly bikers going out etc., all on the same road. Little to no direction from any official on the course, it was really every man for himself. I'm surprised no one got hurt from this.

The course was tough, very deceiving. Looking at the profile the elevation doesn't seem bad at all, but the hills were pretty good. There were some good descents with blind curves on pretty narrow roads. Some good potholes too as others have said. One almost took me out, I didn't see it until the last second as I was crossing an intersection and I slammed into it and thought I broke my bars.

I was also mis-directed by a course volunteer at one intersection just before getting back to T2, and a bunch of riders followed me and we all got lost. Luckily we found our way back to T2, but we were all pretty pissed about the misdirection.

I'm not a big fan of the single year age group thing either. Some things they should just keep like every other tri.

Anyway, nothing has really changed from the first race they did back in December from what I saw. If HITS is "listening," they sure aren't doing anything or changing in any way. I probably won't do another HITS race based on this.

@davempratt | Team Novo Nordisk | Donate to my Tour de Cure ride

pocolocoman

Apr 30, 12 14:25

Post #22 of 26 (1362 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I messed up and started my own thread on this topic; but here's my evaluation of the half iron distance race on Sunday:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread

AnthonyS

Apr 30, 12 18:01

Post #23 of 26 (1257 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [ComidaDeluxe] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I didn't consider the course being off 0.13 miles a big deal. The bike course was off 0.6 miles. Everyone biked and ran the same course. I was just stating it as a fact.

As far as GPS not being accurate, I would trust it over many other forms of measurement depending on how many satellites are currently locked etc. I have run many 5Ks and none of them has ever been off by 0.1 miles, none of them. I've also done a lot of Sprint Triathlons over the last 3 seasons, none of them has ever been this far off.

My beef is with people thinking that slow people (aka Grant.Reuter) should die trying to cross a 6 lane US highway on a run course. F them for being slow right? There is my one and only problem with this thread. If that offends you then F all the self declared fast people that have no concern for fellow competitors. The OP's only beef is with the sentiment that slower triathletes somehow deserve crappy race support. Anyone else claiming what the OP may or may not think is talking out of their ass, which is all to normal for this forum.
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You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.

Grant.Reuter

Apr 30, 12 19:54

Post #24 of 26 (1182 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Yeah thats exactly what I said.
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De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon

djastroman

Apr 30, 12 21:43

Post #25 of 26 (1106 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [AnthonyS] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

FWIW, my Garmin had the bike course at 13.1 miles. It was supposed to be a 12 miler, right? So I was off by 1.1 miles, thats pretty huge. My Garmin is usually fairly accurate. I ran a 50 miler in the woods in Feb and my Garmin registered it as 50.01 miles, so I trust it to be somewhat accurate. Also, if it really was a 12 mile course then my bike split was slower than I've ridden in quite some time. While that is possible, I don't think its probable.
I had the run course at 3.24. That could easily be just from me taking corners differently and trying to avoid getting hit by cyclists coming and going. So I'm going to go with run course was probably marked ok, but the bike course was off by quite a bit. I spoke with a few other racers who stated the same thing after the finish.

@davempratt | Team Novo Nordisk | Donate to my Tour de Cure ride

Optimal_Adrian

May 1, 12 5:31

Post #26 of 26 (286 views)

Re: HITS marble falls, the good bad and ugly [djastroman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Just to add another data point, here's a link to my files from the half distance for the bike and run. Both reported short, but I don't think they were really that far off. I was using the whole road on the bike at times to avoid bad pavement, which could cut it slightly short. If you look at the map, using the satellite option, you can see where my GPS deviates from the map. A good example is on the run between mile markers 9 and 10, which is .1-.05 miles off just for that one mile stretch (if measured with the distance tool on google maps).

Neither the run or bike turnaround points had a clear spot designated with a cone or paint on the road, so I'm guessing it could vary by as much as ~50 yards across athletes?

Bike: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/...DNIKMGQ5NAVJYJYQGIOM
Run: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/...OXCSATO7NQBV36JRRE5M
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2013 Race Schedule:
Tx State (sprint) - HITS Marble Falls (Oly)- Captex (Oly) - Lake Pfugerville Tri - Tri for Old Glory - Marble Falls Tri - Jack's Generic Tri - TriRock Austin (Oly) - ??