Lets talk about coaching...

Dec 20, 11 21:07

Post #1 of 40 (5898 views)

So im not sure where to start with this...
Anyways, Durring this off season i have started looking into multisport coaching a bit and am wondering if its a good idea for me or not.
my background in triathlon: I am 20 years old. I was a highschool swimmer, never the best on the team or anything but it has put me at the front of the pack for swimming in most races i do. i started doing triathlons a year and a half ago with an olympic distance race finishing in 2:53. at the end of the season this year, i PR'd with a 2:08. splits were :23 for the swim, 1:01 for the bike and :40 for the run (Loooooong transition area). my time drops have been steady over the past year and a half with no sign of a plateau. My training has varied from 12 hours a week up to 24+ (that was a bad idea, hellooo overtraining) and my performances were actualy the best around 15 hours a week. i have been entirely self coached with the help of the triathlete training bible.

I am considering trying to work with a coach next year, i am planning on racing some elite races and id like to be competitive in that division.

my question is, would it be worthwile for me to get a coach? should i wait until i plateau to hire a coach? and if i do decide to hire a coach, where do i start? i know afew local tri shops in my area with well accomplished owners who do coaching.

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 3:43

Post #2 of 40 (5828 views)

I am not the same class of athlete as you, so take my advice for what it is worth. I signed up for triathlon coaching about 5 months after I started doing sprints. My goal was to get faster and do well in longer races. The cost was $150/month, which included a monthly workout schedule, a weekly spin class, and 20 minutes per month of 1:1 communication. I have to say that while the workouts gave me some structure that was tailored to the distance of the race I was doing, there was very little effort by the coach to tailor them to my bodies response. For instance, in the beginning I was suffering multiple overtraining injuries, and when I talked with the coach he heard me, but did not adjust my workload. I finally left the coach, and I am doing "ok" on my own. I am probably asking too much for $150/month.

I guess my point is that you should not pay for something you can do yourself. If you just want some basic workout structure, then you can do it yourself with a little research on this site. If you want real interaction and adjustment of diet, workout load, and racing technique then be willing to pay for it.

�I�m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!� Kenny Powers

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 4:25

Post #3 of 40 (5792 views)

I would say that if you want to seriously give elite racing a go, now is the time to do whatever you can to make it a reality. I would suggest that finding a good coach would be part of this and I would suggest taking great care in who you select. I feel your best bet would be finding a coach who has worked with athletes in your position before and helped them earn an elite card; be wary of what is celebrated on websites and ensure you talk to current and former athletes in your search. Also keep in mind that just because someone is fast (or slow) they don't necessarily know how to coach someone else to be fast so be wary of any coach who trades on their results as opposed to those of their athletes.

Shane

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 5:35

Post #4 of 40 (5727 views)

definitely get a coach. why? because you're interested in one. you are not making a life-time commitment. keep it simple. get a coach; stick with him or her for a year; re-evaluate. how to find a good coach? good communication is a must. in-person evaluation critical -- especially for swimming. someone with a triathlon background (obviously). Cost metrics? no idea about your situation.

******************************************
Have Fun ** Tri Hard ** Be Kind
******************************************

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 5:42

Post #5 of 40 (5715 views)

You dont mention this but to me the next step in "getting serious" would be to find a group of athletes to train with and learn from, whether a formal tri group or not. This will plug you in to the scene over and above what the training bible can provide, and from there you can assess coaching options, with input from your friends. To me, coaching must be based on a very close and personal coach-athlete relationship to be worth it, more than just a commercial transaction. Unfortunately, this sort of relationship cannot be purchased and takes a huge amount of day-to-day time and effort. I personally don't think any of the "standard" array of commercial coaching packages (bare-bones cookie cutter plan to "deluxe" packages with on-line or phone feedback) can do this, although they can provide basic structure, motivation & confidence.

I would also recommend extensive research in the literature. Not just training bible, but going long, daniels running formula, lore of running...

This advice and $2.25 will get you a NYC bus ride.

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 5:49

Post #6 of 40 (5703 views)

x2; online coaching (imo) is simply not useful unless you a strictly looking for a "training plan" which to me is a completely different entity than a coach.

******************************************
Have Fun ** Tri Hard ** Be Kind
******************************************

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [jkahan] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 5:52

Post #7 of 40 (5699 views)

To me it depends on how the coach operates from afar.

With good data and some work to help with communication, including video of technique and the like, a good coach is a good coach whether they live in town or across an ocean.

Jason
Dig It Triathlon and Multisport
http://www.digittri.com

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 5:57

Post #8 of 40 (5687 views)

Call Paulo.

@rhyspencer

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 6:03

Post #9 of 40 (5678 views)

You should get a coach. You are young enough that you could even go pro someday, and if not, if you keep with the sport you could become a superb triathlete. If you have the money, try to get coaching from a coach that works with elite level athletes. This will really benefit you.

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [rhys] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 6:08

Post #10 of 40 (5669 views)

Kim IL Sung doesn't take phone calls and neither does Paulo. Maybe you should just list his personal cell phone number on here so that others can verify my statement.

__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Last edited by: zoom: Dec 21, 11 6:09

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [Dig It Tri] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 7:23

Post #11 of 40 (5575 views)

For me, I've started to notice the biggest difference is the communication from being in person coaching and long distance coaching. And not just the weekly "talks", but the non verbal communication during a particular track workout for example, and the parts of a workout where a coach can "motivate" an athlete and that small bit of motivation at times goes a long ways with an athlete in their memory bank. I had an athlete once apologize for writing a novel in her TP's account on her daily workout logs. I told her that was actually probaly the most vital and just as important as what the numbers from her workout were spitting out. If you can get that trust and motivation from athletes to log details (how they felt, stress, etc.) about workouts, you will start to build an incredible relationship between athlete and coach. Then you'll start feeling like you are being "coached" vs simply having a workout planner.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 8:06

Post #12 of 40 (5520 views)

Most good coaches require at least a three month commitment to ensure athletes are serious about training. You are already pretty fast so it may take a professional to eek out an additional improvement where a novice could see improvement through a program written by a monkey. The biggest yard stick for a coach is their athlete improvement. Any coach who is not willing to give you a list of references you can talk to about their coaching style and effectivness is not worth the time of day. Ask to see results! Remember, just because they were a good athlete "back in the day" in no way means they are a good coach. It also works the other way around, some really good coaches were never all that fast as athletes. Since you want to work on Elite International distance, look for a coach with some experience coaching ITU athletes in draft legal racing.

At 20 years old, the world is your oyster, enjoy all that comes with youth and never regret taking a chance to see how far you can go.

Regards,

Dave

Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 8:25

Post #13 of 40 (5489 views)

Get a coach with experience. It's not that important if it is online or in person.

Tomaz
http://www.tomazsink.com

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [irony] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 9:10

Post #14 of 40 (5427 views)

irony wrote:

Get a coach with experience. It's not that important if it is online or in person.

agree... What are you going to get in person that you aren't going to get on-line? Unless your coach is going to be at every single work-out online does just as good IMO. Communication is key!

Powered By HD Coaching

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [irony] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 9:24

Post #15 of 40 (5396 views)

and that experienced coach will tell you dont get a pro card , yet .
Great improvement btw.

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [pk] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 10:09

Post #16 of 40 (5354 views)

Thanks for the help everyone, just to clarify, i am not at all interested in getting a pro card yet. (maybe someday, we will see what happens over the next few years) when i said elite races i meant to say racing in the elite age group wave at bigger races. i appriciate the input and will start taking a more serious look at my options. thanks again!

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 13:35

Post #17 of 40 (5206 views)

I'm a coach and I have a coach. I can do it myself but having someone else there that you trust to hold you back or make you go harder is helpful. Knowing the right things to do does not always mean that you do them and having someone else there helps you do the right things.

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 20:31

Post #18 of 40 (5081 views)

It is like most things in life. If you can afford it, do it. I would think $160 a month when your 20 is alot. But, I don't know your finances. Is a coach great, yep. Doing triathlon I like owning a cat. But, having a coach is like havin a really nice car. You can enjoy it more, but it costs you.

That's it. It's not that difficult of a choice.

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [reefman77] [ In reply to ]

Dec 22, 11 8:25

Post #19 of 40 (4963 views)

reefman77 wrote:

So im not sure where to start with this...
Anyways, Durring this off season i have started looking into multisport coaching a bit and am wondering if its a good idea for me or not.
my background in triathlon: I am 20 years old. I was a highschool swimmer, never the best on the team or anything but it has put me at the front of the pack for swimming in most races i do. i started doing triathlons a year and a half ago with an olympic distance race finishing in 2:53. at the end of the season this year, i PR'd with a 2:08. splits were :23 for the swim, 1:01 for the bike and :40 for the run (Loooooong transition area). my time drops have been steady over the past year and a half with no sign of a plateau. My training has varied from 12 hours a week up to 24+ (that was a bad idea, hellooo overtraining) and my performances were actualy the best around 15 hours a week. i have been entirely self coached with the help of the triathlete training bible.

I am considering trying to work with a coach next year, i am planning on racing some elite races and id like to be competitive in that division.

my question is, would it be worthwile for me to get a coach? should i wait until i plateau to hire a coach? and if i do decide to hire a coach, where do i start? i know afew local tri shops in my area with well accomplished owners who do coaching.

At this point for you, I would say absolutely get a coach if you can afford it. The main reason is that you show some talent, and you are starting to reach the point where you are asking "Where do I go from here?"

On the forums, there are a few coaches I would recommend, that also have experience in racing/getting people to pro level.

Francois
desert dude (Brian)
jonathon caron (jonnyo)
Rappstar (Jordan)
Paulo Souza (search for his elite team application)

John

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [Devlin] [ In reply to ]

Timbo293

Dec 22, 11 12:54

Post #20 of 40 (4875 views)

Funny, you just named the five guys that often rub people the wrong way with good advice.

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [Timbo293] [ In reply to ]

Dec 22, 11 13:04

Post #21 of 40 (4851 views)

perhaps because people are being told the truth, which happens to include information they don't want to hear

:)

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [Timbo293] [ In reply to ]

Dec 22, 11 14:22

Post #22 of 40 (4808 views)

Timbo293 wrote:

Funny, you just named the five guys that often rub people the wrong way with good advice.

Because it's blunt and to the point. People want to be patted on the head and told "good boy!" These guys are more of the "What are you, stupid? Don't do that."

They fit my personal style. One of them is my coach, actually, (Not hard to figure out) but I'd feel comfortable with any of them.

John

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [Devlin] [ In reply to ]

Dec 22, 11 14:26

Post #23 of 40 (4802 views)

didn't said coach tell you to stop spending so much time on this forum and go swim or something?

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [sentania] [ In reply to ]

Dec 22, 11 14:28

Post #24 of 40 (4797 views)

sentania wrote:

didn't said coach tell you to stop spending so much time on this forum and go swim or something?

Yeah, but he was kidding. I've learned to tell. (No, really!) :)~

John

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Re: Lets talk about coaching... [sentania] [ In reply to ]

Dec 22, 11 14:48

Post #25 of 40 (4778 views)

if you can learn to speak "Paulo" or "DD", you can save yourself the money of a coach. Their snark and angry banter are insightful, as are others on the board.

there's lots of good information here on ST, you just have to know how to see it, even though it's there in plain sight.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

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